wpgrexx

Well, I am very close to driving the car off the cliff now.... After months of waiting for money and parts to get the turbo 6 port going, I want to blow it up. Aside from the other minor problems I am having(vacuum leaks, oil line gasket issues) but those I know how to deal with.

My major PITA problem now is the SAFCII, without the SAFC wired, I get no problems aside from running rich, smooth acceleration, I get boost up to 10 psi, pulls hard. When I wire in the SAFC I get the 3800 rpm hesitation. I have triple checked the wiring, all seems good. 4cyl, up to the right, 05 05 flapper.

So I thought, what fixes 3800 rpm hesitation, so I added all new grounds to the ecu, as well as checking the resistance on key inputs like pressure sensor and secondary injector relay, all is good. And still if I take the SAFC out it goes back to not hesitating.

What the hell is going on, the SAFCII is pretty much brand new. Please help me before I go insane.

FC3S driver

iTrader: (1)

had the same problem. I evetually called apex to get the right set up. it has to do with the flapper. I had my flapper set to run on my 87 se model then got an 89 tII and the flapper settings were different. if I had my car up and running right now ai would just give you the setting off mine but I don't. I would just recommened calling apex

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

s4 an s5 cars use different settings, btw...refer to the chart in the installation manual for the setup for your year...it is listed in teh chart with the ecu pinouts references.

Is the afc at 0 correction? Have you changed injectors since it last ran well? Hesitations are rich or lean spots, so if it is out of tune you can expect this.

wpgrexx

I have brand new 550 primaries and freshly cleaned 680 secondaries. I set the SAFC up the way it says in the manual for the flapper 05 05, for s4. When the SAFC isn't hooked up and I have the same injectors, everything on the car the same just without the safc, it runs okay, just pig rich. I have no correction put into the safc either yet, was waiting to do that on the dyno.

RETed

Wait, you're trying to get the SAFC to control a turbo'd 6port NA engine correctly???

Do you realize this wasn't what an SAFC was designed to do?

Who told you to go this route?


-Ted

wpgrexx

All I am trying to do with it is lean out the fuel a little below boost.

What is wrong with that? I can't afford microtech till next year, why won't this allow me to run the car? Aaron ran his turbo 6port off an safc also piggybacking the stock ecu.

YearsOfDecay

It'll work for leaning it out when you are not on boost... But, don't expect it to **** golden bricks for ya!!!!!

What Series AFM and ECU are you running????

Do you have the SAFC throttle input tied to the boost sensor ot the TPS??????

RETed

It is not designed to work in your application.

Aaron Cake got lucky.

Please do not blame the SAFC if it doesn't work for you.


-Ted

wpgrexx

What do you mean? How is it not designed for this application? Don't TII guys use it all the time? Why would it be different on an turbo'd na? My purpose of it is not to add fuel, its to take it away before boost comes on. I am running n326 S4 na ecu same series afm. I am not asking it to do anything it wasn't made for. Just leaning out fuel, what would the difference be if it was na or turbo. I used to run an safc 1 with no problems on the same ecu before adding turbo. Why would it be not allowing the secondaries to come on? That is the only problem? I disconnect the SAFC2 and it works. I mean I didn't even add any correction points yet!

RETed

You're asking me this questions?
Oh boy, good luck...


-Ted

HAILERS

It seems it should work to me. Possibly its the way the grounds (two) are arranged for the SAFC. I remember the instructions stating that one ground HAD to be installed closer to the ECU than the other. That would be the BROWN wire. And the BLACK wire would be the othere wire. The instruction manual stressed that ground issue.

THe other idea I have is ......if your using the pressure sensor instead of the TPS......go back and install it to the TPS instead. Yes, I fishing around, but you have to do something.

The manual says:::: THE GROUND CONDUCTOR OF THIS PRODUCT HAS TWO BRANCHES (BLACK AND BROWN). THIS HAS A VERY IMPORTANT SIGNIFIGANCE TO SECURE THE VOLTAGE CONERSION ACCURACY. CONNECT THE GROUND CONDUCTOR BY REFERRING TO THE FOLLING FIGURE. iNSTALLING THE GROUND CONDUCTOR IN A DIFFERENT WAY FROM THE CONNECTING METHOD SPECIFFIED BY APEX WILL GIVE DAMAGE TO THIS PRODUCT AND THE MOUNTED CAR ENGINE.

Then it goes on and shows right way/wrong way istallations. Sorry, I ain't a going out and reinstall mine the wrong way to see what the results are.

Just a parting shot across the bow.......I'd use a turbo ECU and turbo boost/pressure sensor for that application.....even though I've read where others use the n/a. This statement has nothing to do with your current problem. Like you I can't see why the stumble with the SAFC and no stumble without it.

wpgrexx

What does that mean Ted?

Hailers, thanks for the response, I will go back and check the wiring for a 5th time, I am positive my grounds are correct though.

As for using a TII ecu and pressure sensor, how much of the wiring needs to be changed to do that? Will it run a high compression motor properly, even if its boosted? If that is the only option left I guess I have no choice until I can afford standalone. It just doesn't make sense why it would cause the secondaries to not come online.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Yes, it will work. Sorry Ted, but it's not luck, it's just the ECU being stupid and dumping an assload of gas. However, it IS stupid. It doesn't know wtf to do with boost, so it just dumps given ammount at anything over atmospheric. This works fine if you don't give a damn about gas mileage, as it doesn't really differentiate very well, nor does it have any retarding going on, so it's a bit on the 'crazy stupid idiot' side of things. (this is me, by the way ) But it will work. Oh, the hesitation is most likely caused by the TPS only working for a good 20% of the throttle. I had the same thing until I went to a full range on my s4 6port turbo.

HAILERS

One thing about non turbo car. If the boost sensor sees ambient pressure, as in if you took off the vac line and plugged the line from the engine......the secondaries will come on ANYTIME the engine reaches 3500 rpm. That's just some FYI and I'm not sure if it has squat to do with your problem.

I really don't see why the car's having a problem using the SAFC and not having a problem without the SAFC except for running rich. That's assuming the SAFC is still in the Initialize mode. Hmmmmm......go out and hit Initialize and see what the car does?????

Wiring changes using the turbo ecu? Few. Maybe four and you must have already done them if you have the TPS connected up the the turbo engine. A little lengthening job there. Maybe four or so inches. Boost sensor is the same. Pin 2K on the na is for the split air solenoid on the acv...but is for the twin scroll actuator on a turbo (I assume your not using the twin scroll anyway) so leave that plug disconnected. Pin 1R is for the P/S switch on a na but is for the Knock Control unit on a turbo ( I assume your not using a Knock sensor anyway and hopefully no p/s). Pin 3D is for a automatic transmisison inhibitor sw and on a turbo its for a fuel pump resistor relay(not needed on your car). So I'm saying...you can put the turbo ecu in the car just the way you have the car right now since you have the tps already wired and are not using the knock sensor or the twin scroll actuator.

aw screw it. I forgot you have turbo'd a non turbo engine. Much of the above is meaningless. Just swap the turbo ecu in and boost sensor. You've got the split air disconnected anyway/are not using a knock sensor/ and don't have power steering. )You do NOT need a Turbo harness. That would be retarded to do so and you ain't retarded.

HAILERS

On the whole I think your running rich because of the non turbo boost/pressure sensor and non turbo ecu. I think the secondary injectors in this configuration are coming online much sooner than if you had a tubo ecu and turbo boost sensor. They are coming online at 3500 allright, but they should not come online everytime you hit 3500 They should only come online over 3500 when there is a LOAD. The LOAD is partially sensed by the boost/pressure sensor. See the na fsm for the check where they remove the vac line off the boost/pressure sensor and rev the engine to 3500rpm in the driveway and listen for the secondary injectors to click/make a injector noise. Normally they only come on when over 3500 and there is a LOAD on the engine.

Hey, you got a reply anyway.

That still does not explain the diff with/without the SAFC. Puzzle.

wpgrexx

WOW, thanks for the responses, seems like we are getting somewhere.

Okay, I will try the s5 tps , and see if I can get a tii ecu for cheap, would I need the afm from the tii also, or just the pressure sensor. Than I have to wire a fcd I guess though since I am over stock boost levels.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

You don't need a s5 tps. Just mount a s4 tps on the throttle pedal, and use that as your full range.

wpgrexx

could you explain how exactly you set that up so I can copy you!!!

YearsOfDecay

Dude....... If i were you... I would sell your SAFC, sell whatever other parts you have laying around, or get some plastic and get a Haltech, Microtech or Autronic.... You are in for a big hassle getting that thing to run right!

wpgrexx

Sonic seems to have gotten his to run right. If he could just tell me how he hooked up the tps. Besides, its alot cheaper to try and rig up a tps than it is to buy standalone. And even if it doesn't work, I still spent barely nothing. Know what I mean Gene!!!

Don't get me wrong, If I could I would order a microtech yesterday, but I don't have the cash right now, especially with school coming up.

HAILERS

There's something real screwy here. The car works without the SAFC, just runs rich. The car does NOT run with the SAFC. So why are we talking tps problems?

Question: Is your tps currently connected up and working? I'm not talking SAFC or anythihng else. Is your tps connected up in it's original configuration?

By the way. Both my safc are NOT connected to the tps on my cars. I have it connected to the output of the pressue/boost sensor. That won't work for you right now since you have a na boost/pressure sensor. Can't work.

THere is no reason on the face of the earth that you can't use the tps for the SAFC. Just set your SAFC for the HIGH to be 99percent and the low to be under 99 percent. Then adjust your fuel for the low and the high.

About running rich. Make sure the fpr is connected to a vacuum source right off the intake manifold. Make sure the nipple is really a vacuum. Most nipples on the throttle body are NOT vacuum sources. This matters. At idle the fpr regulates the rail pressure to approx 30-31psi. When you step on the pedal and the fpr sees atmospheric pressure the rail pressure goes up to 37psi. IF YOUR FPR VAC HOSE IS NOT CONNECTED TO A TRUE SOURCE OF INTAKE MANIFOLD PRESSURE, it's likely your rail pressure is almost always in the 37psi range. As you boost the rail pressure should rise 1psi for every psi of boost pressure....possilbly as high as 50psi depending on how much boost your making. If the fpr is not connected to a true manifold pressure......it'll just sit there putting out 37psi no matter how much boost your making.

Normally the rail pressure will be running in the 31 to 33psi range when just cruising/driving normally around the town. If the fpr vac hose is not going where it should.....the normal driving around rail pressure will be....37psi.

By the way, I did for a week or so run the na car off the tps using the setting mentioned above. Worked just as fine as frogs hair.

I've a Fluke meter with a pressure transducer connected to my fuel rail right now, so the psi rail figures I mentioned above are correct. And just fyi....at idle the pressure is approx 30.7psi. When the engine is shut off the pressure goes to about 28 and as you sit there with the engine off the preussure will rise til it hits 37psi. Takes about two minutes to get there. After having let the car sit for twenty minutes ...I just looked and the rail pressure is now 29.4. Just fyi bullshit stuff. Not really applicable to this thread/post.

wpgrexx

Thanks Hailers, Well I have had a safc running before in this car when it was N/A, worked great. As for tps it is not 100% correct yet, I beleive I need it replaced, It won't go to 1.00 volts no matter what I do.

If excess fuel is the problem, why would it be okay without the SAFC, especially since I have not made corrections. If trying new tps and possibly sonic's tps setup don't work, than I will try a TII ECU and pressure sensor just so I can bypass using the tps signal for the safc, should work out much better I would think that way? No?

HAILERS

8888888 If excess fuel is the problem, why would it be okay without the SAFC 888888888

I mentioned that because you said it was running rich, and I assumed that was without the safc. That might be a contributor to your non safc running.

It sounds like the tps has gone south. So I reckon you should not use it with the safc. That might very well be part of the safc problem. Personally I'd bide my time and try to find a used ECU and turbo boost sensor on EBAY ORRRRRR try the forsale section on this forum. Mabe advertise in the WANTED section. Just live with the rich til you can come by those two items.. MAKE sure they are for your series car. No series five stuff allowed.

wpgrexx

I am going to make a call today and get them then. A functioning tps while I'm at it too.