Stacy

"pull spark plugs
put oil(I use 2 stroke) in the spark plug holes
pull the egi fuse
turn car over with plugs loosly in place
pull plugs and clean them off with carb cleaner and a wire brush
reinstall plugs and egi fuse and try to start car."

This sounds like an unflooding procedure. Are you saying it might help compression while unflooding?? I'm new at this... Which plugs should be pulled? My plugs are brand new, could I just wipe them off to clean them, or must I use a wire brush and carb cleaner?

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Don't make me drive up there to Tampa to start your car...... The primary thing to think about is stopping the flow of fuel into your motor... it has to go somewhere when the injectors are pumping. If the motor isn't running the engine will flood.

When the engine floods the residual oil in the motor that keeps the seals working is washed away and you will get low compression. If you eliminate the fuel from entering the motor by either the egi fuse or the fuel pump relay you will stop the fuel from washing out the oil, but by this time its all gone already... which is why they are all saying to put oil into the plug holes. (huhuhuhuh!!! I said holes!!!) The OMP will put some oil into the combustion chamber sooner or later... Putting oil through the plug holes will make things a little quicker unless there is still gasoline still lurking in there. the idea is to crank the motor fast enough to make enough compression & start the motor when the fuel left over is gone. the problem with removing the EGI fuse is that you cut the fuel supply & the spark at the same time... Whereas if you cut the fuel pump relay you still have spark going to fire the motor so that a flooded motor becomes unflooded & fires at the same time. If you do the EGI fuse then you are just running the motor wirth no fuel or spark & thus it won't just crank when the proper fuel/air ratio has been met. Does this make any sense to you? Don't make me drive 2 hours to start your car.

Ramses666

areexdrift

that is an unflooding procedure. only you put oil in ater you crank the car. and you take the plugs all the way out. dont leave them sitting loosely. and you can just use a lighter to clean them. that works well

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Of course its an unflooding procedure.... what do you think happens when you turn the key & it doesn't start? The injectors are pumping fuel and flooding the motor if it doesn't start. You need to cut the fuel & keep the spark. fuel pump relay will eliminate the fuel. Think about it.

Ramses666

Stacy

Actually, that made alot of sense to me! It made me feel like there's still hope! I was thinking pulling the EGI fuse would be the same as the pump switch but EGI also disconnects the spark. Interesting... So I should install a switch, put a spoon of oil up in there & crank away? WOW, NICE =) Thank you for breaking it down for me!

Rx7 = Heaven

i had a problem like these once it turn out to be the engine fuse under the dash in the kickpanel, and another time the plug that plugs into the fuse box under the hood came loose so all the fuse were good but there was no connection

AreExSevenProject

iTrader: (1)

pull every single plug out
leave the wires dangling near but not touching anything.
crank the engine over with the plugs out i the way i said earlier

If you have low compression (NOT extremely low)
then your engine will run...it will just run like crap.
Do the unflooding procedure tonight and tell us how it goes...

PULL THE EGI COMP AND INJ...IF YOU REALLY WANT TO UNPLUG THE EGI MAIN RELAY TOO.

keinikaidoh

ok..here is a cut and paste of a method I found from rotarydynamics.ca It is a method to free up stubborn seals that have collapsed due to carbon buildup. As for clearing flood, just pull the fuel pump relay and crank away.

Q. My car ran fine not too long ago and now it won't start; what happened?

A. This type of problem is potentially less costly and it may be possible to revive the engine. Depending on the nature of the failure, there is a possibility that some of the rotor seals may have collapsed due to carbon build-up. This is typical of a high-mileage engine, one with a fuel management or one with an oil consumption issue. First, it should be determined which of the three conditions apply. The following technique can be used to revive a freewheeling engine, presuming that the rotor seals are simply collapsed and not damaged. It is important to note that, long term, a high mileage engine will continue to freewheel or lock up and the most practical remedy is to rebuild or replace the engine with a rebuilt unit. A low mileage engine, which is overcome by carbon repeatedly, requires immediate attention before catastrophic failure occurs. A reputable service station experienced in rotary engine fuel and oil management systems must be consulted.

1. Remove EGI fuse; move the vehicle outside if not there already

2. Remove both trailing spark plugs.

3. Prepare a 1 L (1 qt.) mixture of 3 parts kerosene and 1 part automatic transmission fluid.

4. Attach a 19mm socket to the eccentric shaft pulley bolt.

5. Using an appropriately sized hose and a funnel, pour a little fluid into the one of the rotor chambers.

6. Work the engine back and forth 1/3 revolution at a time.

7. Use ½ of the mixture to uniformly soak up the first rotor.

8. Repeat steps 5-7 for the second rotor.

9. In most cases, after using 1 L of this mixture, both rotors should be adequately soaked to free up stubborn seals.

10. With the EGI fuse removed and the trailing spark plugs removed, crank the engine for 15 seconds to evacuate excess residual kerosene mixture.

11. Perform a compression check with an adequate compression gauge (a standard gauge provides good results if the check valve is removed)

12. Repeat steps 3-11 if the compression is still not above 6.1 bar (90 psi)

13. Reinstall spark plugs, wires and EGI fuse; with vehicle outside, attempt to start engine

14. If the engine starts, run it to operating temperature and shut it off.

15. Check compression again and compare to the value obtained in step 11 or 12

A healthy engine should maintain good compression for a while after this procedure. It is good practice to check the compression on a regular basis, as this is the only indication of what is happening inside the engine. If the compression slowly creeps below 5.0 bar, it is definitely time for a rebuild, which is the only way to adequately remove all the carbon build-up under and around critical seal springs. The above method has been proven to provide positive results in a good majority of situations. No guarantee is implied or offered and it is recommended that the above steps be performed by a qualified technician who is familiar with rotary engine fuel management systems. Rotary Dynamics is not responsible for personal or property damage resulting from improperly following the above steps as well as improperly following service procedures as outlined in the Mazda Service Manual.

As a side note, I would like to suggest trying some quick start fluid during step 13. You can get it from most automotive parts stores. And um. don't do this inside or you might risk suffication.

AreExSevenProject

iTrader: (1)

has this person even done the unflooding procedure yet?

Stacy

Thanx again for all your help! Turns out the engine has low compression in the lower part. (130K miles on it) My mechanic recommends a new motor, so I'm trying 2 decide if I should put this 13B with 97K for $450 or invest more like 2 grand on a fully built 280 hp with a warranty. Does anyone know of any good deals in the Tampa area? I'm willing to invest more $ if it's worth it!!! I'm looking for something quick that will last a while.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

You might want a second opinion. A compression test on a non-running motor will show up low compression. If you would like some personal attention send me a P.M. and we can work something out. I'm not really busy right now and am pretty bored at the moment.

Ramses666

rhoadwh

You are using 93 octane right?

Or, Your injectors may be leaking when the car sits. If you ever figure out what the problem is, and if that problem is flooding, its most likely leaking injectors. This fix from Mazdatrix may do the job if you ever get it running again.

http://mazdatrix.com/c-bleed.htm

keinikaidoh

ok...I agree with what the other guy said earlier about getting a second opinion. When I blew my apex seal one of my rotors had no compression at all. and after I put in my new motor it had low compression and won't start with the same problem you had described. The problem with my motor is that it has been sitting for a long time and the apex seals have collapsed, causing it to not seal properly. instead of the method I copied earlier(I was too lazy to mix the mixture) I used WD40, let it sit, crank the heck out of it, and then did the same thing over and over and eventually after a few tries I got compression back. I think its really worth a shot before you go spending a few G's on re & re. it takes nothing but a few cheap bux and a little time. also remember, the rotary engine has to be cranking at full speed before you can get decent compression readings off of it. I think your current motor still have some hope. The fact that it has some compression means that the seals are somewhat doing their job. The best scenario is that they have just collapsed due to carbon buildup. The worst is that they are cracked/damaged. you cancheck out the apex seal conditions from the exhaust ports, but it is very time consuming and you probably need a professional to remove the ehaust pipes and/or turbo(s). If you wish to do this you might have to spend a bit of money, but still cheaper than buying a new engine and paying for re & re.My used 1992 REW Twin turbo engine for my FD costed $1300 before tax. so I think $450 engine would be a really good deal for you. The rebuilt engine sounds tempting, but I'm a cheapskate, I don't really think its worth the extra cash. Make sure you test for compression before you buy an engine though. you don't want to buy a bad motor.

Stacy

I pretty much decided to let this dude build me a street ported motor. I plan to add headers and upgrade 2 of my injectors. He's charging me $1650 for the motor.. assuming I give him my old one afterwards. He's also giving a 3 month warranty. I'm hoping I make the right decision. The old motor is just giving out & is no longer functional - my mechanic can't build the compression in order to make it dependable so I figured its time for a change =/ I'm hoping these improvements work out smoothly.

JamesBong

Don't forget that low compression can also be caused by the other plug not being in tight. Make sure that the threads aren't all clogged with grease and grime from the engine. (Ignore me if your engine is spotless.)

keinikaidoh

$1600+ sounds a bit expensive for an FC motor. But I dunno the price range they go for in your area. However if you decide to go with engine replacement it's surely going to be more reliable than trying to fix your old one. just make sure you get someone who knows what they're doing to install your engine. I've seen hacked up jobs that some people do and you definately don't want that. good luck with your car. I'm sure you can't wait to drive it again =3 hope you get it back on the road soon.

mopar97

iTrader: (7)

try clear flood mode...push the gas pedal down all the way and hold while cranking..clears all gas .