alright, so i have an 87 TII shell, and an 87 NA engine. now, im fairly sure the problem lies with the harness being NA on the block and TII in the rest of the car. sooooo, what i need (looking at people like RETed and Karack, here) is the wire (or wires) i need to splice to get it to work right. i know that there is stuff that ive found about doing the opposite (TII engine and harness in an NA shell) but i need the opposite here, and i cant figure out how to interperet what ive found so far...
help me please!!

 

Everything should be plug&play.
You're keeping with the same series - hell, the same year.
It should all drop in and plug right in.


-Ted

 

The EM harness interfaces with the FRONT harness with two ORANGE plugs above the passengers feet and to the right.

The pinouts for those two plugs are different b/t turbo and non turbo cars.

Usually the swap is just the opposite of what your doing and I can readily say just what will be fugged up, but I really have not thought about just what will be messed up going the direction your going.

Attached are two jpgs of those two orange plugs. Notice how the diff in the plugs pinout is noted with ( ) around the turbo wires.

 

do you have a better pic of the X16? the crease in the middle is throwing me off....

 

Actually, you don't have to worry about those two wires IF you make sure you use the alternator plug from the turbo harness which would be on the engine harness on the left side of the engine. You'd take the alternator harness on the n/a EM harness and make darn sure it is NEVER used on the alternator. LIke put some shrink tubing over the whole plug and tie it back to the harness.

So on to the other differences.

See the GB on the X-15. No worry there. That GB is for an auxillary fan temp sensor on a TURBO car. No harm in the pinouts there except if you have an auxillary fan.

Then there's the YW. See how it mates with a YB wire on the other plug????? YW is for the water temp sensor. Well there won't be a YW wire in that plug for a non turbo EM harness. Of course the YB will still be there in the Trubo Front harness. So what to do??? Well, the YW does exist in the X-16 plug so you have to move it from the X-16 to the X-15 plug so it will mate with the YB wire. Yeah.

That should take care of X=15. Now you need to look at X-16 and see what needs to be rearranged/taken care of.

 

Here is a NEWX16

 

ok, so ill get on the alt. plug for sure (by the way, would that "not being plugged in" have anything to do with it not starting maybe?? like the computer isnt getting any power??)
and for the other one on X15, its just a water temp thing. so it needs to be moved.

 

wait, water temp "sensor" or "sender"? because i dont really care about the sender right now, coolant gauge is the least of my worries.

 

If you had the non turbo alternator plug on the alternator with the wiring as is, it might have blown a fuse. Look at the ENGINE fuse. Just guessing right now about that.

IF the alt plug was off, it would not have prevented the engine from starting. Install the alt plug off the ENGINE harness on the right side of the engine. Leave the alt plug that exists on the EM harness off anything and everything.

If you suspect no power to the injectors........then determine if your turbo car had a solenoid resistor package or did not have one. IF your missing the solenoid resistor and the harness requires one, then there will be no power to the injectors at all. The solenoid resistor plug is round in shape and has five sockets on it and five wires. It should be locted a foot or so below the afm/air filter area.

The BY or black/yellow wires in x16 feed the solenoid resistor package or if a later 87 car, feeds the injectors directly. No solenoid resistor means no injector power on a earlier 87. I've no way to tell what version you have, early or late 87.

ENGINE fuse is in the interior. Also check the EGI fuses in the engine bay. Leave the alt plug on the n/a EM harness OFF anything. Use the alt plug on the engine harness.

 

And??? which ECU are you using????? No matter which, the fuel pump resistor relay won't respond like in a normal turbo car. It'll supply voltage to the pump but won't work just right because you won't have the right wire going to pin 3D of the ECU which in turn supplies a gnd to the solenod resistor under certain conditions. Like I said, the pump WILL still work.

 

ok, so, lots of things to respond to. first off, yes, the pump does work when tested using the pump prime clip thing on the front right strut tower.
secondly, the injector resistor was the first thing i noticed missing, but when looked into, the harness is the late 87-88 high impedence harness, and the injectors are high impedence also.
ill have to check the "engine fuse under the dash" to make sure about that one.
the ecu is an N338 i believe. the whole engine/harness/ecu came out of a vert.
i think that pretty much anwsers everything so far....
appreciate the help, btw, Hailers.

 

The injectors should be getting power then. Looking at a 88 model wiring diagram, the BY wires are in the same location on the later harness. The BY in the x-16 plug are the wires that supply pwr to the injectors (called FEM-02 on a 88 diagram).

The pwr for the BY comes from the Main Relay which in turn gets pulled in by the ENGINE fuse. One of the EGI fuses feeds the pwr to the Main Relay.

The fuel pump should work but the part where the voltage is cut down to 9 vdc from 12vdc will be missing til the GR wire from the pin 3D of the ECU is taken care of. Later.

 

Now that I think about it, if the fuel pump works with the check connector jumpered, then the ENGINE fuse is probably good. It's located in the interior fuse box. I THINK the third row up from the bottom and maybe second or third fuse to your right when looking into the box. Probably not blown.

What made you think the ECU isn't getting pwr???? I think I read that in you first post?????

Pins 3J and 3I supply pwr. They are the two pins on the small plug to the far left as you look in the WIRE side of the plug.

The injector wires in that small plug are light green, light green with a white stripe, light green with a red stripe and light green with a black stripe.
With the key to ON, each should have 12vdc on them. The wires in the plug side that is.

Car should start, even though some of those wires in the x15/x16 are pinned wrong. I don't see right away any of those causing a non start.

 

okay, i checked the fuse in the interior (and, that was scary that you knew exactly wich row its in...) the fuse is fine, as you stated.
i didnt know for sure that the ECU wasnt getting power, but i figured since everything down in that area doesnt seem to be working, it could have something to do with it (although now that i think of it, the ECU controls the ignition and timing, so that wouldnt be the case, would it..)
should i then check those wires for the injectors?
and what wires should i check on the fuel pump to see 9v instead of 12v?

 

also, where does that GR wire need to go?? i see that its on the X16 and it is a BW wire on the NA harness, and turns into a BR on the EM harness.

 

ok, so i just got back from messing with it for a while, and the plug at the computer said 12v for the injector.
also, when i took the plugs out, it seemed that the plugs were covered in fresh gas, like the injectors were firing.
im still confused................................

 

The engine is flooded and maybe severly. Maybe, maybe not.

Anyway, you NEED to kill the fuel pump. Your choice. I'd make a simple fuel cut switch coming off the circuti opening relay above the steering column. Another way would be to just pull the fuel pumps plug off. I won't mention the EGI bs, let someone else.

Anyway, after killing the fuel, then buy a can of STARTER FLUID. Not carb cleaner or whatever. At that poiint it's helpful to inject some common motor oil into the rotor chambers. Pulling lower plugs and slopping some in sounds .......sloppy to me. But do it somehow. If it's a na, and I believe it is, then you could just pull the duct off AT the throttle body and squirt some in then rotate the engine with the starter and inject some more. Something like a cup of oil. I havn't done this myself since I owned a 82 carb RX.

Then with everything connected up, spray starter fluid in the afm/air snorkel for about two seconds and try to start the engine. It should at least cough or make life sounds.

I suppose you have spark. I forget. Got fuel. Remote chance it's a leaking injector but probably just the injectors injecting.

At some later day you need to address those wires in the plugs that don't match the function of the sockets. Something like that. They don't seem to be effecting the starting of the car though. I don't see how anyway.

 

ok, i bought the starter fluid and injected some oil and sprayed the starter fluid in. the engine would sputter/cough, and run off the starter fluid for about 2 mabye 3 seconds, but then die. i still feel as though its not getting fuel........i dont knowwhy.... if the injectors read 12v with the ignition on, shouldnt they be working??

 

Yeah. Something like that. If it'll run for a few moments like you said with starter fluid, then that MIGHT mean it's not getting fuel. If you sprayed starter fluid with the fuel pump disabled and it ran, then reconnected the fuel pump and sprayed again and it only ran for a few moments, it would SEEM there's no fuel getting injected.

At least it will start to some degree and that's positive.

The injectors work by the ECU pulsing a gnd to the injectors (which already have 12vdc on them). Sometimes if the ECU grounds are not bolted to the top of the rear rotor housing (good gnd) then the injectors won't pulse. But I don't know about that because you have spark and it originates from the ECU in a sense, so probably not the ECU gnd on top of the rear rotor housing.

One way I have of seeing/hearing if the injectors work or not, is to get a spare cas and attach it to the plug that is on the cas that is already installed. Then turn the key to ON and rapidly spin the spare CAS gear and listen for clicking. Actually that only works GOOD, if you disable the two coil packs by pulling their small white connector apart (so you don't mistake spark sounds for the click sounds of the injectors). The starter does not have to spin to do this. Only spin the cas lower gear with the key to ON. IF you hear them clicking then they work.

If a JDM engine is installed in place of the USA engine, then the fuel lines on the JDM engine are opposite the USA fuel lines. I'm talking about the hard lines the rubber fuel hose connect up to.

If the fuel pump check connector is jumpered (two socket, yellow in color, near the front strut tower/pressure sensor area) and the key is to ON, you SHOULD be able to HEAR the fuel being pumped back to the fuel tank. As in splashing in the tank. I can hear it which means anybody should be able to hear it. If you don't hear it.............then swap the two fuel hose where the connect to the engine then listen again.

Or sometimes there is a air leak so big, that only starter fluid will start the car for a moment.

I'm sort of wondering if when you sprayed the starter fluid and got it to start.........did you have the fuel pump disabled? NOrmally you would, and after you did the spray thing a couple of times you'd enable the fuel pump and try starting again.

 

Yeah. Something like that. If it'll run for a few moments like you said with starter fluid, then that MIGHT mean it's not getting fuel. If you sprayed starter fluid with the fuel pump disabled and it ran, then reconnected the fuel pump and sprayed again and it only ran for a few moments, it would SEEM there's no fuel getting injected.

---------yeah, itll start up fine off of whatever amount of starter fluid i spray in, but dies immediatley after the fumes are all burned.

At least it will start to some degree and that's positive.

--------yes, its a start....


The injectors work by the ECU pulsing a gnd to the injectors (which already have 12vdc on them). Sometimes if the ECU grounds are not bolted to the top of the rear rotor housing (good gnd) then the injectors won't pulse. But I don't know about that because you have spark and it originates from the ECU in a sense, so probably not the ECU gnd on top of the rear rotor housing.

---------i will clean the grounds better just to be sure.


One way I have of seeing/hearing if the injectors work or not, is to get a spare cas and attach it to the plug that is on the cas that is already installed. Then turn the key to ON and rapidly spin the spare CAS gear and listen for clicking. Actually that only works GOOD, if you disable the two coil packs by pulling their small white connector apart (so you don't mistake spark sounds for the click sounds of the injectors). The starter does not have to spin to do this. Only spin the cas lower gear with the key to ON. IF you hear them clicking then they work.


-----------for some reason, i laughed unstopably when i read this. its seems crazy enough to work. im going to go try this next. very good idea hailers!!!


If a JDM engine is installed in place of the USA engine, then the fuel lines on the JDM engine are opposite the USA fuel lines. I'm talking about the hard lines the rubber fuel hose connect up to.

--------------no, its a USDM engine, out of a vert. i did check the fuel line placement issue, because i had that problem with my TII swap i did last year.


If the fuel pump check connector is jumpered (two socket, yellow in color, near the front strut tower/pressure sensor area) and the key is to ON, you SHOULD be able to HEAR the fuel being pumped back to the fuel tank. As in splashing in the tank. I can hear it which means anybody should be able to hear it. If you don't hear it.............then swap the two fuel hose where the connect to the engine then listen again.


----------yes, i does get primed with the jumper.


Or sometimes there is a air leak so big, that only starter fluid will start the car for a moment.


--------im not sure...there isnt really any air leaks left... i patched them all up in the last couple days.


I'm sort of wondering if when you sprayed the starter fluid and got it to start.........did you have the fuel pump disabled? NOrmally you would, and after you did the spray thing a couple of times you'd enable the fuel pump and try starting again.

-------yes, i would start it with the starter fluid, let it do its thing, it would die. then i plugged the fuel pump in again, sprayed starter fluid again, and cranked it again. but i got the same effect both times...

 

***-----------for some reason, i laughed unstopably when i read this. its seems crazy enough to work. im going to go try this next. very good idea hailers!!!****

Yes. That works and the only downside to it is you almost HAVE to pull the little white plugs off the Lead and Trail coils because when you spin the cas the sparkplugs will fire/click. So you disable them so you can hear the injectors click Just make sure you use the spare CAS so you don't have to pull the cas in the engine and have to retime it.

It beats all to heck having to pull the intake manifold off and then look to see if the injectors are opening/shutting.

 

On a Turbo car the GREEN/RED goes to the ECU pin 3D. That 3D on a turbo car either puts a gnd on the fuel pump resistor relay or removes a gnd on that unit when a LOAD is detected, which in turn puts a full 12vdc on the fuel pump. I believe it REMOVES a gnd under load.

So.......I'm lost. Are you using a Turbo ECu or NA ECU??? On a NON TURBO ECU pin 3D goes to a automatic transmission inhibit switch but on a Turbo it goes to the fuel pump resistor relays coil (negative side of the coil).

That's not real clear. So...the BR wire is the same color on n/a or turbo and goes to pin 3D on either ECU. The color changes on the Front side of the plug. It goes to green/red on a turbo car and turns BW on a non turbo.

All this means is that the fuel pump resistor relay will never drop to 9vdc under low load because the n/a ECU will never pulse a gnd on that wire ever. Not a big deal in my opinion.

I don't see this wire giving you any problems ever if left alone/as is. The pin 3D on the n/a ECU does not output anything. The pin 3D on a TURBO does output a gnd though when a non load is detected on the engine. Something like that.

 

yeah, its the complete opposite of the usuall swap, so ive got an NA ecu, harness, and engine, in the turbo shell.

 

Curious.............do you have power steering on that car?

 

no. may i ask why you ask?