daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Well, I attempted to replace the main relay in my wiper switch today and I think I ruined it.

I was following the instructions posted by Icemark, the patron saint of the FC who passed away earlier this month, as found on his website:

http://www.mazdamark.com/DIY_wiper_repair.htm

Everything seemed to be going fine. I had a little trouble getting all the old solder off. I got some of it off with a solder sucker, but to get the last remnants that were pooling around the base of the relay pins into the holes on the board, I used a solder braid. I was using a Weller adjustable wattage iron and I kept it at about the 3.2 level (not sure what that translates into, but about half power, so maybe 25 watts). Everything looked clean so I pushed out the old relay.

Unfortunately, on one of the pins, there is a sort of tiny copper sleeve stuck on there (see attached photo). Mark's writeup included this passage:

"You must be careful to not damage the circuit board or overheat the circuit board when you remove this relay and the solder holding it on. If you remove the relay, and small copper bushings are left on the pins of the relay, you have damaged the circuit board."

Well, I wouldn't exactly call what is left on the pin a bushing. As I said, more like a sleeve. However, I put the new Omron G6C-2114-US-DC12 in there and I have pretty much the exact symptoms I had before I started:

1. No intermittent speed.

2. Low speed is OK, high speed works but seems the same as low speed.

3. No park, and mist setting only works as long as you hold it down. If you release it, the wipers freeze where you leave them.

Is this because of the sleeve/bushing that came off with the old relay? If so, what do you do to fix it? Is it possible that my problem is being caused by the other relay, the G8S-117P-FD-04? I'm also attaching a photo of my finished solder job in case anyone has any specific advice on how to fix things; the red arrow in that picture indicates the position of the pin that had the sleeve/bushing attached to it.

-Thanks!

N1XRR

That is the "bushing" that Mark was talking about. Yes, that is damage to the PCB. It is possible to repair that using a jumper wire to another solder pad that is on the same circuit (providing that damaged pad doesn't break the connection).

EDIT: That looks like its the normally closed part of the relay. You can use a multimeter to follow the trace to another part of the circuit, and solder a wire from the good connection to your new bad connection. The issue may be if the circuit is continued on the top side of the board. Then you will need a jumper to go from one side to the other.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Oh well, looks like I probably shouldn't have attempted this project. I guess it was beyond my meager soldering skills. I will take a crack at what you suggest N1XRR. However I think all the traces for that circuit are on the top side of the board, which means I'm going to first have to de-solder the 16 pins holding the board into the housing, and possibly both relays. That gives me a lot of opportunity to screw it up even worse.

Any suggestions on how I can avoid overheating the board when I take another crack at it? Should I be using a hotter or cooler iron? Now with Mark gone, is there anyone out there who professionally rebuilds these things?

duo2999

iTrader: (1)

yea i did the same thing.

int and hi speeds dont work for me. plus the wipers stopping in the middle of the windshield is kind of annoying after a while.

i think you could pick up one from somewhere or buy it new. stupid dealers charge so much for it though.

as far as soldering and de-soldering, when i was reading threads on how to fix the switch, you could use a solder sucker device. im not sure what it is, but it does what the name says, and it gets the solder off nicely. but i've never used one before.

or you can get one from mazdatrix...still expensive for just a switch thing.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

I originally tried to use my desoldering pump (aka "solder sucker") which creates a vacuum at its tip when you depress a spring-loaded plunger. It did get about 80% of the solder away from the joint. As I mentioned though, some solder was still left around the bases of the pins so I used a desoldering braid to wick that out.

I'm thinking maybe by using my 40 watt iron at about half power I may have been using too cool an iron, and therefore having to heat the joint for too long a time. Any thoughts on this?

Photo of desoldering pump:

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

I would be willing to consider a new one if I thought it would actually be any better than a used one. According to Icemark's page though, the Mazda switch uses an unsealed primary relay so even a brand new one could have a problem in a few months or years.

I wonder if anyone has ever checked into the switch sold by Black Dragon. I haven't gotten a new catalog from them in a while, but back in 2007 they had one for $399.95 (for cars without rear wiper; $689.95 with - ouch!).

Edit: scratch that! I see that Mazdatrix is asking $343 for the basic switch and $514 for the one with rear wiper. Pretty much makes the Black Dragon one pointless. Maybe I need to call Malloy Mazda and get a price from them. For some reason, I always thought these things were like $750...

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Following N1XRR's advice, I did some continuity testing and discovered that the pin on the adjacent relay is in the same circuit as the pin I mucked up. This made it relatively easy to run a jumper since the pins are on the same surface of the board. (See attached photo for my admittedly non-professional result.)

Good news is that when tested, the switch now pretty much works as it should. Mist, intermittent, low and high all seem fine, as does park. (Yay!)

The only slightly weird thing is that the high speed doesn't really seem all that high to me now. Not that it ever was really blazing, but could something that I've done cause this? Did I use the wrong type or gauge of wire for my jumper? I used a bit of stranded wire that I had in my toolbox for jumpering the check engine test pin on my old S5 GTU...

Maybe it just goes slower when the windshield is dry and the car isn't moving, though I did test it with the motor running.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

Hey, glad to see you fixed it! BTW, 25W seems a bit high. It's usually better to use less power to avoid overheating components nearby.

13B Etc

iTrader: (2)

Yes, the wipers will definitely move faster if the windshield is wet. Fret not. Anyone else looking for a rebuilt wiper switch? I have a couple on hand, no rear wiper, non-vert.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the advice on this. I'll try a lower setting next time I'm soldering something on my car (which won't be long now, since I haven't yet had to resolder the clock/idiot light surround which should be going any day now...).

Which reminds me, did Mazda actually improve the wiper switch for the S5 cars? My '90 GTU never had a problem with the wiper switch in the 12 years I owned it, whereas it did have the cold solder joint issue in the clock/idiot light surround.

Thanks everybody!

another7driver

Was the gtu garage-kept? This problem is almost universally due to moisture getting into the relay.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Ironically, no.

I bought the '90 in 1995 with 8K miles and it never spent another day of its life in a garage. It lived in Pittsburgh and New Orleans, two places where there is tons of moisture (and in Pittsburgh, lots of freeze/thaw cycling). It was pretty much a daily driver.

I bought the '88 in 2007 with 28K miles and it spent its entire life garaged in Florida. It had intermittent wiper problems almost immediately after I got it. Maybe the relays don't like not being used regularly?

another7driver

Who knows? I'd call it luck. These cars are so old now that you shouldn't expect anything to work as originally intended.

N1XRR

Soldering/desoldering is like driving, its more important to have good soldering skills than good equipment.

That being said, I see desoldering bulbs/solder suckers as band-aid tools. What you REALLY need is something like this: http://shop3.frys.com/product/276081...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

If there is enough interest, I can start repairing these things at work in my spare time and selling them through the company.

m33p0n3

iTrader: (1)

I agree, a good soldering iron makes a huge difference. The crappy Radio Shack special ones that just plug in tend to get way too hot and you burn the crap out of the pcb. I have a nice Weller temperature controlled station, which made putting the new part in a breeze.

For desoldering, I've had really poor luck with the plunger style solder suckers; they're alright for getting a good portion of the solder out. But copper solder wick is really nice, since if you heat it properly it will also draw the solder through the hole.

S4GXL

how much shipped to 55406?

ArtOfRuin

iTrader: (1)

I used a 40W Radio Shack iron when I rebuilt my wiper switch. I didn't have a problem with it burning anything. Much of that had to do with my technique- I made sure I didn't keep the iron on the joint any longer than I had to, kept it tinned and clean, and I took my time and let the parts cool off as needed. I took a summer soldering class at a voc. school when I was a kid- one of the best decisions I ever made .

I agree about the solder sucker part, though. It only seems to be effective when there's a lot of solder or if you add solder to a joint before you use the sucker. Not that I had an easy time with the braid.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

Well, I guess someone will need to step in and fill part of the void left by the loss of Icemark.

dmak

iTrader: (3)

hey, you bought the Omron relay G6C-2114-US-DC12 to fix this problem right? Mazdamark DYI suggested to replace both front and rear wiper relay. My question is that is the G6C-2114-US-DC12 fit for both front and rear wiper? or just the front? Thanks buds, I'm trying to rebuild my switch soon time

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

If your car has a rear wiper, you have three relays in your wiper switch. If your car has no rear wiper, there are two relays.

If the symptoms of your front wipers are that they do not work in intermittent mode, freeze randomly in the middle of the windshield, or fail to park when you turn them off, you need to replace the old, unsealed relay with a new Omron G6C-2114-US-DC12. This is the lowest relay, or the one Mark "Icemark" Mildice referred to as "Relay 1."

If your wipers aren't working properly in the Low speed mode, you may also need to replace the middle (or upper relay if you have no rear wiper) with a new Omron G5LE-14-DC12. Mark called this one "Relay 2" in his DIY instructions. Apparently this problem is very rare.

If you have a rear wiper, it is generally advised that you also replace the upper relay or "Relay 3" even if you aren't currently having problems because it is also prone to failure. This requires a second G6C-2114-US-DC12.

Good soldering!

dmak

iTrader: (3)

Thanks alot David! now i can rebuild mine!

dmak

iTrader: (3)

1 quick question...

G6C-2114-US-DC12 = G6C-2114P-US-DC12 ?

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

My mistake, the relays I ordered did have the "P" in the part number. Sloppy typing.

NeCr0mStR

iTrader: (3)

I just did this fix and I found it virtually impossible to get all the solder off the relay pins... so what I did was get as much as possible off with desolder braid, then break or cut off the pins flush with the PCB and take a low watt solder pen with a very fine tip and push the pins out of the holes while I heated up the solder that was holding them in place making sure NOT to heat them up too fast or use to high of a wattage. Patience is the key, also make sure that when you reapply solder that you use a solder flux to help clean the pins of the relay and also helps to "suck" the solder onto the metals.

RotorRex

iTrader: (2)

might be interested. I have an 88 vert with wipers that won't park correctly (stop wherever they are at when you turn them off), no low speed, and no intermittent. I'd say it's barely limping along

What would you be charging if you decided to get into "the business"?

You talking about buying/fixing/reselling, or are you also considering having folks ship bad switches to you, repair, charge fee, ship back?