rs_1101

need input from experienced peoples. idle timing was approx 4' basically i failed 25mph test

15mph 25mph

rpm 1967 2179
co2 14.3 12.0
o2 .6 0.0
hc 135 703 <-
c0 .09 4.34 <-
no 264 51
*arrows indicate where i failed

i dont get this. last time i checked smog pump was working, and last time i tested, i failed the low speed not the high speed. also i ran one gallon of denatured alchohol, but i maybe didnt use high enough concentration of DA-gas.
i need input here. preferably from gurus.
also i had to actually hook my smogpump up to the airbox, and the hose has a bendy part in it, i didnt think it could restrict airflow that much.

even the techs said i was running rich, but what kind of difference can 200 rpm make!?

Knight-Rider-04

200 rpm but do u see the difference in your HC ( unburned fuel ) and CO.. u went from 135 and trippled it which shows me ur just dumping fuel for no reason.. u have a leake injector ? do u smell fuel when u normally drive and ur CO was high.. now DA is supposed to burn very clean to make ur gases seem minor.. but if u have a comp problem or a leak internaly the excess gas may be to much for the DA to cover..( u getting bad MPG ? )

rs_1101

does it sound like a smog pump issue to anyone

inflatablepets

Change them Cats. And change the oil.

rs_1101

bump. no its not the cats.. notice the low o2 concentration, thats due to the cats working. the problem is either ACV or leaky injectors. ive tested the acv and it is running the anti burn system, but im not sure about the cruising air injection system. im installing an o2 sensor to rule that out, and how the hell can the oil be an issue?

Fijensen

I failed a couple of weeks ago. I have a plain old na 13b. I read all of this stuff about the alcohol, but I wasn't crazy about the idea. I took a stab in the dark and went to the local muffler shop and had the cat changed ($175) the old one had stuff rattling around in it. Went to the inspection place and passed with flying colors.

Aesop Rock

try the alcohol trick?

Davidov

iTrader: (2)

Replacing the cat(s) will only cover up a rich condition, not make your car run like it should.
High CO and HCs = a rich running condition.

BlaCkPlaGUE

hmm... evidence points that its running rich, then you say that you're going to 'install' and o2 sensor...

The o2 sensor controls the fuel/air ratio, and if its running rich then its becuase your current o2 sensor is dead or not there.


install the o2 sensor? lol

inflatablepets

Contaminated/ Dirty oil WILL increase sa HC output. The cats are not quite doing their job either. If you know what's wrong then why the hell are you asking.

casio

he doesnt know whats wrong, he's wondering why its failing and ruling out ideas that he thinks are wrong.

okay, if i'm right, the numbers on the left are your 15mph and right are your 25mph. only reason i'm asking is because the ones on the left are so good. of course, theyre too good to be standard, so i assume they are, indeed, your 15mph tests.

it looks to me, though i dont know why it would be doing this, that your air pump isnt coming on during the 25mph test. the numbers on the left (your 15mph numbers) look way too good to be non-working cat or air pump, which means, i assume, they are both doing their job. with a cat and no air pump, i've seen my number and they are NOT that pretty. on the other hand, your HC shoots up to 700s, whereas mine were in the 1300s with no air pump. this could simply be that i'm running much richer than you (i have a check engine light which may be causing a richer condition). your NOx could probably be a bit lower on your 15mph, though it looks to still pass by a long shot. your 25mph is even lower which, of course, points to richer (low NOx = rich; high = lean). your CO is about where mine was with no air pump.

all in all, i cant tell if youre running too rich there and the cat (and air pump; assuming it were working at 25mph) simply can't handle the fuel, or (what i would more likely suspect) if your air pump, for whatever reason, isn't feeding the cat at this speed.

HAILERS

It would IMHO help if you wrote down what car you had. Like....a ninteen eigty six non-turbo or ninteen eighty seven truboii. It makes a difference in the answers you get.

Lets say you have a 86 which would have to be a n/a.

First get a fsm and check out the air control valve and the solenoid per fsm.

A quicky is to pull the large approx one inch hose off the bottom of the acv.

Then fully get the engine hot.

While idling, do you feel air coming out the hose you pulled off? Just a hint of air or full open?

While idling, pull the BLUE plug off the Relief solenoid. Did the acv dump hose start expelling a bunch more air? Or was it the same amount? It should have increase a bunch. A slight bypass of air on a twenty year old car might be acceptable.

The reason I direct you to the large hose at the bottom of the acv is.........THE AIR FROM THE AIR PUMP GOES THRU THE ACV...INTO THE HOUSING PASSAGES .....THEN TO A HOLE IN EACH EXAUST PORT.....WHEN IT IS MIXED WITH THE EXAUST GASSES .....WHICH IS PRIOR TO THE 02 SENSOR.....WHICH IS PRIOR TO THE CATALYTIC CONVERTER. THAT IS WHERE AIRPUMP AIR GOES. More than less...forget about the split air pipe for this emission test.

If the air is being dumped overboard to the silencer in the right front fender....it ain't doing nobody any good.

The above test should have determined if the two small vac hose just above the acv are on right. The rear vac hose goes to the Relief solenoid, blue, and the front vac hose goes to the Switching solenoid, grey.

Pull the front of the two hose off and feel for vacuum. It should be there at idle.

If you have a 86-87.. make sure the water temp switch at the bottom left of the radiator is on and works. If it is not...the Relief solenoid will NOT work as it should. The Relief solenoid when not energized....causes air pump air to be dumped overboard. Not going to the exaust ports where it should be going.

Buy new sparkplugs. Install them. Put a new air filter on. Set the timing to the fsm, i.e.on the right marks. Change the oil. Drive the car and heat it up prior to going for inspection and leave it idling if you can befor the test. You don't need alchohol in the gas tank.

If it fails....buy a new catalytic converter from CATCO. Bolt in cat and pass the test.

casio

HAILERS, do you ever do any work on cars (that arent yours or friends)? mine didnt pass emissions recently and i have a ticket for expired inspection. it was due yesterday, but i believe the downtown courthouse was closed (sure did look like it anyways).
i recently posted all my emissions numbers for my car in the thread "failed emissions: a rotary journey." youre in fort worth and rather knowledgable, so i was hoping you may do sidejobs for extra money.

HAILERS

Here's my 87, prior to being converted to a turboii, I think: http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...threadid=35201 I''ve been told that car won't pass emissions in Canada.
I'm not too keen on actually working on someone elses car, especially since they took my 980 work week from me at work (every other week get fri, sat, sun off) and they make me work like slave labor with overtime. What side of town do you live on...just in case I get stupid? I work a second shift....by choice......so I'm not really available during normal hours. I like the solitude of my neighborhood when the neighbors ain't nowhere to be seen or heard.

I did just fix one of my wife's friends car. A 89 Honda that she said the brake lights did not work on. She said she changed the light bulbs, brake switch etc and they still would not light up. Well, she forgot about the fuse box in the right side of the engine bay. Popped fuse is what it was. I was dreading having to work on her car on my Sunday off. Ten minute job. Her shop told her they wanted to charge ninty bucks to trouble shoot it. Grrrr.

casio

first, i'm not going to ask you to do anything you dont want to do. i would be more than willing to do the work, i'm more interested in why its running the way it is. i pulled 2 codes before the CEL/MIL light stopped working (intermittent problem). 13 and 17; one is pressure sensor which makes sense because i've had the pressure sensor line off while the car was on and havent reset the codes. the other is "feedback" which, as far as i know, is the O2 sensor. i bought a new one today.

one thing that is curious is your emissions numbers. theyre more leniant than the ones i have. your vehicle year is 87 whereas mine is 91 which may be one variable. nonetheless, your readings are awesome whereas i fail the 15mph test.

i live in south fort worth; south of sycamore school road and just east of mccart (i can see mccart from my backyard). its about 8 minutes south of 20 and 8 minutes west of 35W if that helps.

like i said, i dont wanna ask you for help if you dont want to or if youre busy, but i mainly need help with diagnosis. my time has essentially passed and i'm about to the point of calling myself screwed in this scenario. i'm going to try and plead for an extension and hope i talk to a nice, understanding judge.
thanks.

HAILERS

I have only worked on series four. But I assume yours is a non turbo. Just where are the figures different??? Would my car have passed if it was a 91? I've a bro who has a 91fsm. Hmmmm. I'm thinking about it. Tell me about what I asked above. I don't think the emissions are that different on a 87vs 91. Thinking about it.

HAILERS

CASIO: PM me within the next hour. I normally don't even look at pm's, but I will for the next hour.