13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

ok the jpgs showed up now...im looking at the 2nd pic and it says the ex-hi relay then i went back to the FSM and it shows that the EX-HI relay is the round relay numbered 6 on the picture. correct?

HAILERS

In post #22 above with the two jpgs attached. This is post??? #26 here. The post count is to the top right of each post.

One jpg shows the plug and is outlined in red. It shows four wire colors and I pointed to the two wires to be jumpered. So look at the two relays and the relay with those colors is the one I'm talking about.

HAILERS

Extra high relay. Yes.

If the motor does not work, the go to those wire and see if the R/Y has power or not.

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

im pretty sure i know what wires you want me to jumper now, they are located on the EX-HI relay ( the round one like you said). can i get to these without pulling the dash? if so i can test this tomorrow otherwise ill have to wait till i pull the dash this weekend or next.

HAILERS

It looks like it gets power at the Heater fuse.

Then it goes to the Heater Relay. That relay has to pull in.

If that relay does pull in, then it goes to the Ex-Hi relay. That relay has to pull in.

Then it goes to the Blower Motor which has a ground on it already so the motor should blow.

If you jumper the Ex Hi relay at the two wires R/Y and L/W, bypassing the Ex Hi relay itself, then the motor should run. Well it should run IF the Heater Relay is good.

So what your doing by doing the jumper job, is proving that the Heater Relay is working if the motor runs. IF the moter does not run with the jumper, then maybe it's the heater relay that is at fault.

Lets say the jumper job did not work. And you find there is no power on the Red/Yellow wire at the EX Hi relay. Then you know the Heater Relay isn't pulled in and it, the Heater Relay needs to be checked out.

So if that is the case, you'd pull the Heater Relay out and see if the L or Blue wire has power or not. It should if the key is to ON.

I just noticed that the WIPER fuse plays a part here in supplying power to the Heater Relays coil to pull it in. Just FYI. I need to compare that with the series four I guess. You might check to see if the Light Green/Black wire on the Heater relay has power to it. That might be missing and cause a problem. It's needed for that relay to pull in.

There's lots of *games* to be played with this outfit to find out what's wrong.

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

so if i jump these and it works what does that mean? edit* ok just read your post above

HAILERS

I've never pulled the dash to do anything..........so I'd say you don't need to pull the dash. How to do it? I forget. It's been a while.

LIke I say in a post above, there's several different things that could be the problem. The jumper job is in the middle of things and I use that method to cut the problem in half so to speak. If the jumper does not work, then you look back towards the Heater Relay and not towards the motor.

I try not to do ANYTHING under the dash. It physically hurts to muck around under there. Pain in the butt. If I was smart I wouldn't have answered this thread. humor.

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

awesome man i understand all of this now.. but still the question is..these dont have anything to do with the airmix motor changing flaps that i should be hearing

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

to me it seems the logicon is the cause of this problem but i cant see how all 4 of the logicons i tested were bad...what do you think?

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

this may be a stupid queston but from looking at the diagram is it possible the ignition circut could be screwy and not even giving the 30A heater breaker power?

HAILERS

Seems the fan amp in the Logicon feeds a ground signal to the relays or the transitor to make them work/pull in etc.

It also seems if the Heater Relay has power to it, that if you had everything connected up, you could put your hand on the Heater Relay, and feel it pull in when the slider was move from far left to right. That would prove the Logicon is putting a ground on that relay. All depends on that relay having power on its coil for that to be valid.

I'm done for the day on this. Oh. I remember having one of those two relays being bad on one of my car. It's been a while though.

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

hey i gotta go so ill try to test those wires tomorrow depending on the weather...thanks so much for explaining all this stuff to me..ill try and get back to you tomorrow on this

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

just thought of something. in the case both these relays are good then it has to be the logicon/fan amp correct? from looking at the diagram it looks like if both relays are working the only other thing it could be is the logicon...

HAILERS

************************************************** ************************************************** ***************************

I've misled you on the power transistor putting out a ground. Ain't so. Its voltage on that L/O wire to the transistor from the fan amp. I got to looking at the Heating and A/C section of the FSM, and oooops.

Seems the Ex-Hi probably only pulls in when the slider on the Logicon is put far right. The rest of the time it's relaxed. So it'd be the transistor that feeds varying voltage to the blower the rest of the time.....but the Heater relay would have to be pulled in the way I see it.

That frigging transistor is on the fwd side of the heater core. Uggh.

That jumper job mentioned earlier should get the blower running at high speed if there is power at the R/Y wire. Proves ?? something.

That Heater Relay should make an audible click if the amp is feeding it a gnd and it has power from the fuse. Listen for the click or touch the relay and slide the slider to the right from far left.

Access to the relays is easier if the right hand speaker/amp is removed from below the glove box.

HAILERS

The attached is out of the series five fsm. It shows how to check the heater relay etc. Lots of different ways to work a problem out there. You can look at that jpg and compare it with the earlier jpg I attached of the wiring and it makes sense as to what their doing,.

HAILERS

I just played around with the heater stuff in one of my cars and came up with some thoughts.

First is the EX Hi can be put in the doghouse and the blower will still work, just not in it's highest mode.

Second thought is, if the Heater Relay does not latch when you move the Logicon Slider from far left to any position from there, then either the relay is bad OR the LW wire from the Logicon isn't putting out. So, with the key to On and the slider to far left, the LW should read approx batt voltage. As you slide from far left to anyplace to the right, the voltage should drop to a volt or less IF the logicon is good.

Third thought is that if the Heater Relay clicks/pulls in, and the blower does not blow, then the Power Transistor is bad. It's located on the front side of the blower case.

Fourth thought is if the Power Transistor is suspect, then do what is described in the attached jpg.

Fifth thought is that if you need the blower motor to run while figuring things out , and the Heater relay does work, then do the jumper job described in an earlier post i.e. the R/Y to the L/W.

skinsfc3s

dont know the specifics on your car but i recently had the same issue after doing a swap using a jdm harness, after i pinned in the correct wiring for my wiper motor my logicon came back to life. just a suggestion, hope it helps

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

what do you mean pinned in?

HAILERS

Probably had more to do with the WIPER fuse not being in. The WIPER fuse powers the Ex-Hi and Heater relays.

EDIT: Another correction. Wiper on series five........Softtop on series four. Or the fuse where it says Soft Top in the attached jpg of the fuse box. Second row from the bottom, far right.

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

i just jumpered the red/yellow to blue/white wire on the ex-hi relay and got nothing..i dont think im getting any power to the blue wire that comes from the fuse box to the heater relay...im going to get a bite to eat then swing by my garage to get my volt meter to test that blue wire..what does it mean if that dosent have 12v?

HAILERS

The Blue/White goes to the blower.

The Red/Yellow should have power on it IF the Heater Relay is pulled in and working.

If the Red/Yellow has no power, then pull the plug off the Heater Relay and see if the Blue wire on the Heater Relay has power on it. That wire comes from a fuse and should have power.

If that Blue wire has power from the fuse, then that means the Heater relay isn't pulling in to connect the Blue wire to the R/Y wire.

So the next step would be to see if the Lg/B wire on that heater relay has power from it's fuse or not.

There's some confusion as to just WHAT fuse powers the two relays. The series five shows Wiper and the 88 online series four shows SoftTop..............and my 1987 FSM shows yet another fuse. In a way it does not matter if the Light green/Black has power on it. IF it has no power on the Light Green/Black.........I'll go out to my car and find out just what fuse is involved.

A jpg out of my 87FSM is attached. Mildly different than the other diagrams.

HAILERS

Go to the square shaped relay which is the Heater Relay. It has two large wires and then three smaller wires side by side.

One smaller wire is light green/black. With the key to ON, it should have battery power. Slider on the Logicon can be anywhere, it matters not, just key ON. Then we'll go from there. I've got my car torn up so I can look at this stuff.

EDIT: Also see if the Large pure Blue wire on that heater relay has batt power with the key ON.

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

dude your awesome!! you pulled your own car apart to help me figure this out!! thanks so much man.

ok i could not find my volt meter anywhere *RAGE* so i used my test light and found that the blue wire on the heater relay does have power. the red/yellow on the heater relay does not no matter where i place the logicon slider... i jumped the two together like we did on the EX-HI relay and maybe i shouldnt have because it triped the breaker.. so i reset it and continued to test wires...the only wire that ever has voltage at anytime is the thick blue wire on the heater relay. i jumped the blue on heater relay to the blue/white on EX-HI relay and fan kicked on. so fan is working

HAILERS

That'll work for a while anyway.

The Heater relay has a coil. The coil pulls in the relay. The wire that is light green/black is supposed to power that relay, and from what I read you don't have power on the light green/black wire.

I found on my series four 1987, that, that light green/black wire is fed by my METER fuse. Interior fuse box, third row up from the bottom and then the third fuse from the left.

My only problem with that fuse being out, would be that the gauges would not work if that fuse was bad and I've a hunch your gauges work. So I don't know why you don't have power on the light green/black wire.

If you do get power on the light green/black wire, then now you need a ground on that coil to pull the relay in. That ground comes from the Logicon on the small Blue/White wire or L/W.

Does your Heater RElay look anything like the plug jpg I attached a couple of posts above???? Lg/B, B, L/W, L, R/Y????????

13bturbofc

iTrader: (4)

ok i just checked all my fuses, they all look good. and yes my heater relay is identical to the one in the last jpg you posted 2 thick wires and then 3 small..all the same colors as the jpg show. i double checked the green/ black wire and it has no power...