In autocrossing my FC, I always get people coming up and telling how I lift my front wheel all around the course. My question. Why?

Suspension is Ground control coilovers, 450# front/ 250# rear, on Tokico Illuminas Front/ Koni Sports Rear, with stock sways. I have DTSS eliminators and the rear camber adjuster. I would estimate power between 200 and 250 RWHP. Nothing extraordinary.

The followup question will be, is this desirable, or should I be doing things to correct it? If so, what do I need to do.

Photo illustration:

 

I love how your head sticks out of the sunroof

/postwhore

 

I'm 6'5" without the helmet. I have to sit in the car with the seat reclined to fit. Add a helmet, and it is sunroof or bust.

 

I'm 5'11 and my head is (was) too close to the roof for my taste. I'd hit it if I ran over a bump I didint see. I swapped for TII seats to solve it

Anyways, I hope someone helps you with your wheel issue.

 

My guess would the rears are too soft, but the ones you have should be ok, I would think. Maybe you need a stiffer sway bar? What kind of tires are you running, cause they must be pretty sticky to do that.

 

It's been a long time since I autocrossed, but, as I recall, that is a sign that the front roll stiffness is way higher than the rear. If desired, you can correct with a smaller front sway bar, or lower rate springs, or maybe by doing the opposite in the rear.

I wonder... do you get a lot of roll in the rear, instead of oversteer?

Never mind about my question--I just looked at your picture again, and you do.
Great picture, by the way.

 

you look like a big guy. all your weight being shifted to one side of the car in a turn will do that. even it out.i moved my battery next to the intake. it provides much better wieght distrubution.

 

For the cheap fix, I'd go with the Cpt's idea and add some ballast on the other side of the car.

 

wow

450F 250R?
thats like 8/4... mad understeer

how well does the car rotate with spring rates like that?

edit: just looking at the pic... the rear outside is squatting... alot, especially relative to the front. its no surprise the front inside is lifting. i would put stiffer springs in the back.

 

I wouldn't add weight, since he doesn't notice any ill effects when driving. He only knows the wheel lifts because people have told him so.

Unless I was getting too much understeer, or driving on the sidewall, I'd live with it (lots of good autocrossers exhibit that trait (or used to, anyway)).

 

Apply throttle, car rotates. I don't think it is a ballast issue as it raises both sides. (Not at the same time of course).

 

More illustration:

 

happens turning both ways? i would rule out your size being a factor.

imo, (as stated above), rear too soft relative to front
increase rear spring rate or reduce front springrate

especially since your driving style must be to:
turn in and then use throttle to rotate the car

that will only load the rear more

 

350#? 450#? What to put in the rear? I still haven't upgraded the sways. Was looking at going with the full Racing Beat bar set. What would be a good autocross spring rate setup with the Racing Beat bars?

 

I would say get some wider rear wheels with more offset and wider tires. Seems your suspension is way too soft.

 

450/450 would probably not mesh well with your driving style.
keep the rear softer than the front but bring the rates closer together. how close is up to you ... maybe ask a few local autox'rs for advice.

 

Go down with your front spring rates and/or smaller front sway bar. I'd recommend you stay away from the rear RB sway bar, several people including myself realize it makes the rear too stiff. Go with a stock sway bar or none at all (I'm doing the latter).

 

I'd try something like 350lb/in rear springs and some Eibach sways, as they're adjustable, and the RB's aren't. They're also stiffer. When Dave Turner Motorsports was competing their GTUs in STS2 they used 400lb/in fronts and 325lb/in rears, so 450/350 is pretty close to that for the relative stiffnesses.

I've got RB bars with stock springs and it still understeers, but with stiffer springs it's a different story that I have no direct experiance with. But a blanket statement that the RB bars make the rear too stiff isn't true.

 

I am going to just toss this out....

You bought coilovers....

Have you ever heard of getting your car corner weighed?

I think that is where your problems lie.

If you haven't done it yet...its the MAIN benifit of owning coilovers.

James

 

Sorry I should have been more specific. Several people I have spoken too who road race and have coilovers with pretty aggressive rear spring rates (mine are 275lb springs in the rear) feel that the racing beat bar or any rear swaybar in conjunction with a beefy front sway bar such as the RB and stiff spring rates in the front prefer not to have a rear sway bar at all. I experienced this first hand by eliminated the rear swaybar altogether at the track. May not be true for everyone but I've spoken to a several avid roadracers and they recommended it to me. Havent looked back

 

yeah you definetly need to go with a stiffer spring rate in back

 

FWIW the guy i bought my car from, who tracked it regularly, removed the rear sway bar. This would be similar in terms of balance to upgrading to a larger front bar, just cheaper.

 

I'd try 350# rear

your front springs are crazy stiff for a car with even weight balance?

And the car is really really squatting in that second picture

 

rear end is squatting too much, really. yes i said really, the problem lies mainly in the rear of the car not the front.

higher spring rates in the rear or try cranking up the coils. see the *** dragging on take offs and hard cornering? that is bad because the whole frame is trying to twist.

keep cranking the rear end up until you just start having oversteer issues then back off a little.

 

As much as the rear end dips down I'd say try drag racing that ****.

****, with a good holeshot youd probably do a wheelstand.