DEZERTE

You can get a decent FMIC off of ebay for around 300 bones it seems, And I dont see why you wouldnt be able to have an exhaust shop make some custom piping for you, (mandrel of course) for your fmic setup...anybody?

hIGGI

iTrader: (7)

its just matter of your choice

somebody does like to get things which are bolt in (or almost), brand name and or bling/bling and somebody else might want to go custom/ghetto/own developement way...

banzaitoyota

And when was the last time your local muffler shop had a Mandrl Bender (along with the requisite properly sized die)?????

I have to truck the vehicles to Atlanta to find the ONE shop in the region with a Mandrel Bender

DEZERTE

Why the hell wouldnt an exhaust shop have a mandrel bender? thats bs.

ddub

This exactly what my friend and I always talk about doing. He has a TII and we've discussed this many times, a kit is a ripoff in our opinions.


And yes why wouldn't an exhaust shop have a mandrel bender? I figure if an exhaust shop can make 3" full custom exhaust with no problem fitting it in, then some 2.5" or 3" fmic piping should be no prob

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

most ill buy the already made kits because they are proven to have minimal lag and a lot of R&D has already been done.

Yes you can do it but you have to figure out a path for the tubes to the IC and then try and find a way to reduce bends and length.

razorback

cant you buy the bends you need off of internet sites?

NZConvertible

No, it's real life. They are an extremely expensive piece of machinery, and most exhaust shops have absolutely no use for one. Most of their business is fitting off-the-shelf replacement stock systems, or repairs to stock systems where press-bends are all that's required. For "performance" exhausts most will simply use mandrel bends welded to straight lengths.

RETed

This is going to develop into an IC core quality trash fest...I know it.

There's a shop selling Griffin IC cores for like $300.
Aluminum piping to do the whole job is like another $300.
Multi-layer, reinforced silicone hose couplings are another $200.
That throttle body adapter is going to be about $100.
Wow, look, that's $900 already.

If you go cheap, mild steel exhaust pipes, you can get all the pipes for $100 or less.
You can use cheap-*** non-reinforced silicone or rubber couplings, and that should knock down the price to $100 or less.
I still see a minimum price of about $500.

The kit is still missing small miscellaneous stuff like hose clamps (yeah, it's only a few dollars), emissions fittings (if you need them), and polishing labor (some kits like the GReddy 32R comes polished) isn't even factored in.

What is DOES come down to is us debating what a good IC core is.
eBay prices will bring them down to as low as $100 if you get lucky.
I normally use the XS Engineering stuff, which is $500 for the GT-R core and $400 for the Silvia core.
That's a big difference in price...

And this usually gets ugly...


-Ted

DEZERTE

Thanks for the replies, i had no idea that mandrel benders arent common, that blows. oh well.

banzaitoyota

Its the co$t of the Mandrel bender, and the fact they take up a TREMENDOUS amount of floor space, the mandrel dies are only good for 3-400 bends before they must be replaced/refurbished. Need more reasons?

DEZERTE

Im new, i didnt know any better. please dont make fun of me.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

i disagree.

i was on somewhat of a limited budget when i made my frontmount kit, so i decided to get a starion IC. i believe this IC (while not being much if at all better than the stock IC, but being designed great for a fmic project) should be fine for me while running the stock turbo. i am only running 2" IC piping because A. i think the greddy 2.5" elbow is a total waste of money and B. i only have 2" inlets and outlets on my IC. however,

i paid 70 dollars for the starion ic, 50 dollars for the pipe, 25 dollars for all of the radiator hose that we used for the couplers (2" diameter, infinite length) 40 bucks for the all the 2" MANDREL bends (3 180* bends) from jcwhitney, and about 10 bucks for all the hoseclamps.
keep in mind i have a few friends that weld so we did it with no labor costs. thats about 200 dollars for a DECENT flowing (good enough for me with a stock s5 turbo) IC that looks good and gets the job done.

if i could have done it all again, i would have gotten a slightly bigger EBAY intercooler for about 250 bucks (180 bucks more than starion) some 2.5" pipes (maybe 10 bucks more than the 2") and thats still under 400 dollars for a nice intercooler, 2.5" piping, and everything else needed except the labor and welding

ted you pay way too much money for things that gets the same job done almost as well.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

ok ted,

if you are spending 200 dollars on IC couplings, you deserve to have to pay 900 dollars for an entire ****** kit.

banzaitoyota

Radiator Hose as a Turbo coupling? I suggest you go back and do some more research. It is documented that there is a boost loss that occurs as the rubber expands with the heat and pressure. Why not do it right?

NZConvertible

You don't select pipe sizes based on the size of the connections. 2" pipes may be okay for very short runs with minimal bends, but you need extra cross-sectional area to make up for the far longer and more convoluted routes FMIC pipes must take. You can use 2"-2.5" reducers to connect to the IC and TB, but ideally you should have had 2.5" connections welded onto them.

neofreak

Because that costs money.

We're FC owners, all of us are cheapasses and ghetto rig everything.

NZConvertible

I wouldn't use radiator hose, but you can buy reinforced high-temp rubber hose from hydraulic/pneumatic shops cheaper than "automotive" silicone hose.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

i have 6 bends.

also, jason, is there REALLY going to be a noticeable difference between pipe sizes when they get bottlenecked down at both ends?

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

who says what i'm doing is not right?

i'll tell you whats not right john, spending 200 dollars on IC couplings.

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

Whoa! I'm a little late for the Initial question at hand. Brullen Exhuast where I have all my pipes bent - no pun Intended, Including Exhaust (on my 2nd one now due to TII conversion) which Is near to me has a Mandrel Bender. Strange how all this frenzy could arise from the paired two. ie. Exhaust Shop & Mandrel Bender...than again, It's uncommon to see the pair found under one roof.

ddub

Yah, 200 dollars for couplers is a BIT steep. Here's an example... 200 dollars on couplers, after about 2 min of searching I found these: http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...y_Code=SIL-STR
So those are 3" couplers, lets just say you want all 3" piping and need 3" couplers, smaller ones are cheaper but lets go with 3". $200/$6.50 ($6.50 per coupler) = 30.77 couplers, so 30 couplers rounding down. I dont think an FMIC job would need 30 couplers

banzaitoyota

Because you are MIS-USING a product in an application that its not intended for! When your rubber rad hose starts to crack and leak come talk about the $$$ money you saved.

There is a reason why there are different grades and compunds of hoses, not just because an engineer wanted to create something new, Use the right materials and tools for the job or leave the hood SHUT

banzaitoyota

SILVERROToR is very lucky to have such a well equipped shop locaed near him

Rex4Life

Yes 2-1/2" would be better, but the difference between 2-1/2" and 2" is small. I'm in the process of designing IC piping and calculated a 0.11 psid for 2-1/2" and 0.24 psid for 2" piping. That's at 350 scfm (~210 hp) and with 6 90 deg. short radius turns, 3 45 deg short radius turns, and 5 ft of straight pipe. I know the calculation isn't exact but it gives you order of magnitude of differences.

What I'm trying to say is 2" pipe wouldn't kill you if you had to because of installation room--at 210hp. Higher hp and yea the differences become larger--and I have no idea what DEZERTE is running.

Scott