Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I've been absent for a few reasons. Those who know will understand...

Rotary7s: Fuel pump, regulator, dizzy, coils, rewiring, misc parts, air cleaner assembly, tuning, etc...

All for a decrease in power? And where exactly do you find a carb for $250?

Microtech: $1000

Evil Aviator

While I agree with you about the advantages of the standalone EMS over a NEW carb setup, you are underestimating the resources of the typical junkyard scrounge. One could probably find a somewhat useful junkyard carb for $25, trade various car parts for a manifold, make a carb adapter plate out of wood, etc. The carb setup is still the cheapest route for the ghetto mechanic to "upgrade" the induction system. You and I know that it will not compare to a standalone EMS, but the ghetto mechanic doesn't know the difference and can't afford an EMS or new carb kit anyway. Also, many racing classes don't allow EFI, so there IS a reason to use a carb (my 1Gen is an example of this).

bill Shurvinton

As soon as you get into junkyarding, then seriously cheap EFI comes your way as well. Provided said 'ghetto mechanic' can weld, you can fuel inject pretty much anything for not very much.

In my case I traded for the inlet manifold, bought a second hand set of DCOE throttle bodies off a 4-pot and sold on one for a friends 12A. Fuel injectors I swapped for a large box of jelly babies (thank heavens for the DFW RX club).

My latest conversion will come in around $120 using the throttles off a GSR600 ($75 on ebay), the fuel pump off a Golf ($15) and the ECU off a camero ($40).

I'll need a few more trades to get the inlet made up for me, but no money should change hands. At the end of the day I'll have close to the ultimate induction system for a NA rotary for not a lot.

rotobiatch

PLZ help me!!!!!!!!! https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=190270

Rotary7s

I got my Holley 600 DOUBLE PUMPER/Mechanical secondaries for $240. to be exact..

Its at a local speed shop..I can get them all day for that price..

Holley Blue fuel pump with regulator,$110.
RacingBeat intake $200.
12A dizzy...dime a dozen..
I can use the 13B coils..

Yes a micro tech would be nice ..BUT HP to $$ I really dont think its worth it for $1000. Show me a 6 port with High HP output.. How much do you think I will actually loose going to a carb,is it worth it?

Think stand alone $1000
Bigger injectors $300.?

I can do alot with that $1300. with a little junk yard searchin ..

Sorry but a stand alone for a N/A I think is a total waste...and if its stock ported then your throwing cash otu like its water..


Do you run a stand alone?

Evil Aviator

LOL, it's totally obvious that you do not run a standalone EMS. That's OK, just as long as you think that your carb is good, that's the important thing.

Maybe you would like to put your carbed RX-7 up against some standalone EMS RX-7's next weekend?
http://www.cfrsolo2.com/Flyers2003/F...nd_5_31_03.pdf

jgrts20

nice too bad i live in VT i would love to go and watch, hehe!!

Rotary7s

I wil be getting this car close to free* Hope you seen the pics.

The car is clean ..all I need to do is drop in an engine.

Short block=$100-$150.
Tranny $50.
Carb=$240.
Fuel Pump $110.
Intake $200.

For about $900. I have a running car that I can drive around and beat on..

If your talking performance wise I wouldnt put $1000. standalone on a N/A engine sorry I would have to be boosted,I just dont feel you can get that much HP to $ to show a $1000. ECU was worth it..Maybe you can show me im wrong..wheres some dyno or time slips..

No7Yet

A basic LT8 + laptop adapter setup is currently $725 to your door if you get in on the groupbuy, not $1000.

If you miss the GB, the price goes up a touch. Still nowhere near $1000.

Just wanted to set things straight.

Brandon
BR7 Racing

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Ok a nice carbe setup will run him about 1000 dollars

a BASIC(please define) LT8+ laptop adapter is 725 dollars that is IF you have a laptop that would cost at least 600 bux for a cheap *** laptop that I don't have and I don't know too many that do have a home PC and a laptop. that puts the Microtech a bit over the carb setup.

Ok I want to know and SEE proof that a carb setup will decrease power from the STOCK EFI system if anyone can show me a dynograph of a tunned carb setup and the stock EFI on the same car with the same mods on the same day and all that ****. If you all can show me thins then I will SHUT THE HELL UP ON THIS SUBJECT but IF the carb setup is better for power over the stock setup you all STFU I am not comparing a CARB to an ESM I am comparing it to the stock setup Mazda put in the car.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

what does this have to do with carb'ing an rx7?

sorry bro, the forum doesn't work that way.

No7Yet

A "nice" carb setup will run him a lot more than that. Figure the cost for a dual sidedraft weber setup with RB manifold.
Microtech EMSes don't require a laptop - they have the option to use one. If you wish, you can buy a hand controller, which is going for $115 with the groupbuy. You can completely tune the ECU with the hand controller. That's $785 to your door.

A basic Microtech includes the ECU with a suitable base map, flying lead harness, fuel pump relay (uses stock fuel pump), fuse and manual. As Jose Corraliza (spicrx7) will attest, that's enough to get your car started (although not running too well w/o even a calibrated TPS!).

If your goal is to get rid of your stock manifolding, we offer a Weber-style throttle body injection setup for a very competitive price. And given two identical setups, EFI will always make more power - carbs require intake restriction to function, and EFI is like having an adjustable "jet" for every single RPM and load point.

In any case, I digress - my only reason for speaking up here was to correct Aaron Cake's mention of a $1000 LT8. What you get should be what's best for your power goals, skill, and budget. In whatever you choose, best of luck to you.

Brandon
BR7 Racing

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

OK, I'll put it another way: all things being equal, EFI will always make more power then carb. Period.

And yes, I will be going standalone soon...Microtech in fact...

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Ok now were getting somewhere

but I still want my question answered

I did not know about the hand controller thanks for pointing that out to us. Second question here could I(reletively a retard for tunning) tune the Microtech myself or how long would it take for me to learn ho to do it? could the guy at the dyno tune it for me? how long would it take to get my car running good(how much dyno time)?

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

ok a carb setup NEW from Mazdatrix is about 850 bux plus shipping say 900 a fuel pump and regulator would be about 130 shipped 1030 for the whole thing.

No7Yet

As with any aftermarket EMS, proper tuning is essential to good operation. For that matter, the same goes for carbs. Any decent tuner should have to problem getting at least passably familiar with the Microtech in almost no time at all. We officially recommend that you only use the base maps long enough to get yourself to a professional tuner. For some first-hand experiences with the LT EMSes, check the Microtech section of this forum.

For a reference, we (BR7 Racing) recommed budgeting 5 hours for installation time, and 3 hours for dyno time. A good, experienced tuner/installer can get it done in less time. Of course, the longer spent tuning, the better the car will run.

Brandon
BR7 Racing

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Ok well sorry to say but EMS is lookin pretty good

since I want a NEW setup not used so EMS wins out in the form of Microtech LT8 just wish I had cash to get in on the group buy. anyone want to lend me 900??? anyone?? well aslong as I don't find a used carb setup for like 500 or something Microtech looks good to me.

Rotary7s

You guys got to be shitting me...$1000. for a carb set up?

Fuel Injection Plug Kit $33.00
RB/Holley intake $228.00
Holley 600 DP mechanical secondaries.. $240.



I got friends who run worse carbs than this..single feed vacume seconadaries
and then are running 12s and 9.9xx

So I dont know where the hell you got your info on $1000. carbkit

Rotary7s

Like I said...

I dont care what it cost..how cheap you can get it..

It boils down the HP and 1/4 mile times..

That thing has to be the **** to throw it on a N/A for $1000.

**** if I was going to drop 1k on1 mod for a N/A I would go boosted before that...

bill Shurvinton

You're repeating yourself without actually adding any benefit to the discussion, or it would seem, reading the questions being asked, so I assuming that you are closed to discussion/debate on this topic by having jumped into a locked groove?

Rotary7s

Ok then here it goes... show me a stock FC with a standlone tuned...

Can one of your venders back your product?
Lets see what a $1000. standalone can do ..do a before and after run..

Theres the discussion...

bill Shurvinton

OK,

Thanks to Tim Shuh I can show you what $120 can do on an FC

http://megasquirt.wankel.net/MS_Imag...vs-Factory.png

Now that's bang for the buck if you're after it.

Theres a nice article out there showing 230HP out a 6-port from racing beat. If you want i could calculate how to assemble that for way less that your holley setup.

Give me a few months and I'll be able to show an inlet made from a $75 superbike induction setup.

Rotary7s

I dont care about actuators wired open.

We were talking about a $1000. stand alone and how good it is..right?

I was asking on stock n/a dyno ..and with the standalone on and tuned to show me how good the $1000. stand alone is..

A vendor who wants to back thier products should be able to show me this..

I say carbed cause was going to get a short block for $60. rebuild and port it myself,Screw the actuators wire them open and run a Roadrace header..screw all the emissions.Run a single exhast..

With under $1000. I wil have a rebuilt/ported engine..

NZConvertible

That's a pointless exercise. While there would definitely be gains from the removed AFM and leaner mixtures, one of the biggest advantages of programmable EFI is the ability to tune to suit the engine's modifications. The more modified an engine is, the less ideal the factory tuning becomes. So the more modified an engine is the better the gains from an EMS will be. The number of people who put an EMS onto a stock would be close to zero. Why would a vendor have data for a siuation that never occurs?

You seem to be looking at this from a bang-per-bucks point of view of peak hp and 1/4-mile times, but when you also consider the many other advantages EFI has, carbs start to look pretty ordinary.

Rotary7s

Yes they are outdated technical wise,BUT its nice to acheive the same or maybe HP with less $$$.

I want to see numbers...of a stand alone in a STOCK engine to see how much improvement it was for $1000.

I would be pissed if I spent $1000. on a standalone so i can just remove my AFM...and some guy with a carbed set up or 1/4 of what i spent is spanking my *** on the track.Yes it will have a faster throttle response,(FI over Carb)

But I want to still see results..Theres alot of you who point to the standalone cause its logic cause its a FI car...But wheres the numbers..