4 pages of rehashing the TOB? Lol...

The TOB isn't even touching the pressure plate at idle, clutch pedal out, so that can't be it...

The pilot bearing isn't spinning at that point, either, because the tranny is locked to the flywheel/e-shaft via the clutch. Well, it's spinning, but at the same relative speed as the e-shaft, so, relatively speaking, it's not spinning

 

my 88 vert dose that i think its just because i need a new under lying shift boot because its riped i can hear the gears when i drive too every 7 that i have been in i can hear it and from what i under stand thats a good thing that you can hear it it lets y ou know that its working and not broken un like a lexus ware you cant hear any thing and have to pop the hood and get out of the car and put your ear next to the engen to see if its even running

 

ideally, this is true. unfortunately, a 18 year old car isnt an ideal situation.
fact is, the TOB is touching the PP in some cases. this is what causes the noise people are complaining about. once you put pressure on the clutch, it puts a little pressure on the TOB and takes the vibration out of it...viola, no more noise.

You guys can argue theory all day if you want, but the fact is, ive fixed 2 cars with this exact problem by replacing the TOB.

pat

 

ps... if you do have this problem, it may be due wholly or partially to having air in your clutch line. try bleeding it, see if that helps, and ALWAYS bleed the clutch cylinder after changing the TOB.

pat

 

You can especially notice it after putting in solid aluminum tranny mounts..

 

Mine does it too.

 

The fact that you've fixed a few vehicles with similar symptoms by replacing the TOB does not mean that it is always the culprit. I replaced my TOB, pilot bearing, PP, friction disc and clutch master cylinder (yes I bled the system) and mine still does that. The good news is that it hasn't gotten any worse after I've spent a year beating the snot out of it...

 

These guys don't get it. I've said that several times and nobody listens well, screw em.

 

no, i never said that it was always the culprit, just that it was a likely place to start.

 

dude, you like to come and state very emphatically that it isnt the TOB every cuple pages, but it just makes you sound like an ***. If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would realize that no matter what it theoretically seems like, if it happens it happens.

I have had two seperate cars that did this, and replaceing the TOB fixed both of them. You cant argue against facts with ideas, it just doesnt make sense.

I get to deal with people like you all the time. People who sit behind a desk and say 'yeah, that wont work', but ya know what? The real world isnt quantified by how stuff theoretically works, and the textbook is only right about half the time when it comes to troubleshooting real problems. If you had some mechanical experience, you might realize that.

pat

 

my 86 base does tha same thing too and to me it no problem. yet anyway

 

I cant believe everyone is getting so confrontational about this.

There are BASICALLY 3 things(well 4 if you include the rotational noise of the tranny internals) that exhibit this noise. And they have all been stated.

Throwout Bearing
Pilot Bearing
front and rear tranny bearings

I guess the most obvious thing to say is that many of our cars make this noise, including my own. The degree in which it is present could determine if it is a problem or not.

A worn out pilot bearing can be bad as it will allow a slight wobble/movement to the tranny possibly/probably causing more probs down the road. They wear out if not properly installed lubed or with old age. Change it IMO everytime a clutch job is done

Same applies to the TOB, change with clutch job

Tranny bearings, well, at 17+ or - years you can draw your own conclusion the good news is both bearings can be replaced but at the age of the tranny and not a lot of options available, I would drive my tranny to its death then just swap in a new one.

Again, I think it comes down to the degree of noise exhibited. If it is getting louder get to work. If it has been there since you got the car and it isnt totally annoying ...give her gas and turn up the stereo.

Mine is no better or worse then 10 other RX7's I have compared it too so have concluded it is normal for the age of my car.

 

ok the sound of the tranny in nutral (whirrrrr) is the trany berings begining to whare out (not a big deal). also the sound the car makes as you push the clutch in (errrrrrr)is the throw out bering going bad and is lible to hurt your clutch. ther is no way that the output shaft is making the sound.


p.s. the wirrrrr sound usualy hapens in cold weather 50 and below if it hapens in warm wather or when the car is warmed up ther could be a problem

damm you posted it faster

 

dont replace tranny bearings. its a waste of time, new bearings will transfer the torque better and kill your old worn out gears. if the noise is temprature depandent, then that does point towards the tranny internals, as they get better lubricated after the tranny heats up and the oil thins out some.

pat

 

I had this problem. My car sounded like an angry cricket, and the noise went away when I pushed the clutch pedal. The noise would increase in pitch while if I only pressed the pedal slightly, but once I reached a certain point, no more noise. Replaced the TOB, pilot bearing, pressure plate and clutch. Noise went away. Draw your own conclusions.

Also, my car has a bit of tranny whir, from and aged tranny I guess. This is a distinctly different sound than a bad TOB.

 

I do know what I'm talking about, as I have had many years of experience dealing with mechanics in general.

Are you sure that your cars did this? When the clutch is engaged/connected, or was it when the clutch is disengaged? The posters of this thread are unclear about that.

What do you mean by "people like you?" I don't sit behind a desk all day like you think. I work out in the field. During the day I specialize in steel frame constuction, drywall and suspended ceilings. By night and at my leisure I repair automobiles. I have done both of these for the last four years. Before that I was a small engine mechanic for about eight years. Probably more that what you have done. I agree that experience beats book knowlege. Book knowlege is a necessary tool in dealing with anything that requires mechanical aptitude. If you studied the workings of a clutch, you would know that the TOB is probably not the problem. You might have had the exact oppisite problem for all I know. As far as book knowlege is concerned, why is it that Any trade/technical college teaches from the book before you go into the field? It's because you need the proper tools of knowlge of how things work first. You also need to know a systematic approach to troubleshooting, and the theoretical knowlge to be successful. There are some exceptions to that rule, such as people with superior mechanical aptitude.

To recap on the actual issue here, It is a distinct possibility that the TOB is bad. However, it is highly unlikely.

 

Sorry, double post.

 

you keep proving the point over and over. my point is, the book is good for basic knowledge, but it doesnt always apply, and trying to say taht it does makes you sound ignorant. Your posts all assume that I dont know what i am talking about or dont understand the situation, or that i dont know how a clutch works. If you would read my posts, you might see that this is not true.

Just to clear it all up, my experience with these two seperate cars was this:

Both cars made a loud whining/whirring noise when the clutch was OUT. it would get louder if you put a slight pressure on the clutch, then go away with a little more pressure. replaceing the TOB and bleeding the clutch fixed the problem completely in both cases.

Explanation:

The TOB gets loose after a few thousand miles, and when it is spinning with no pressure on it, it will vibrate and make noise. Putting some pressure on it takes the vibration out and seats the bearings, so it shuts up. A little air in the clutch line may or may not also contribute. Contrary to popular belief, the TOB is almkst always touching the PP. Think about it: what else pushes the TOB back out when you let the clutch out. there is no spring on it, the only thing that pushes it back is the springs of the pressure plate. true, there is a little bit of hydraulic return pressure in the cylinder system, but not much, and certaily not enough to hold the TOB back all the way away from the PP.

also note that i am not confusing this with normal tranny whine. most of the people on this thread, especially lately, just have that. a few earlier, however, sounded like they had more worrisome noises.

pat

 

Pat, next time you have your tranny off, actuate your fork arm/TOB from the top of the fork, much like the hydraulics do. What you will notice, if everything is lubricated properly, is that due to the mechanical design of the system, the TOB will tend to "spring" backwards when released. If this isn't the case, then your tranny front cover shaft is gunked up, and/or it's pivot "ball" is worn...If the TOB rode the pressure plate full time, it would quickly burn up...

 

wayne i suggest you take your own advice. it will spring backwards, but with almost no force. the only thing that pushes it back without the slave cylinder and and the pressure plate on there is the rubber boot that holds it.

why would it 'quickly burn up'? it is a thrust bearing, true, but it is still meant to spin, and there isnt any force on it usually. I'm not saying that in most cars it rides it full time, just that in more than a few people's 17 year old ones it does.

anyway, ive stated my point, im sure people who have the noise ge the idea, and anyway most people on here are just looking for somethingt try that they havent thought of yet, so theres one more for them. I'm not gonna rgue the same point over and over with you guys. Its pretty simple really. I know how it works, i'll let you guys worry about it not me.

pat

 

It doesn't need to spring back with any appreciable force, just enough to keep it from riding on the pressure plate.

Actually, I can't prove this one way or the other, without physically laying under the car with a flashlight or boroscope while the tranny's installed and getting some pics through the inspection hole. What I do know is that my clutch hydraulics travel a bit before the pressure plate's opposing force is felt, which tells me that the TOB isn't riding the PP. And if you know hydraulics theory, then you know that there is no slop when compressing fluids (and I'm also taking into account the mechanical freeplay of the clutch peddle linkage).

I read that somewhere, a long time ago in a land far away, that if the TOB continuously spins due to physical contact, it wouldn't last long...

Differing opinions, no big deal

 

ditto on my 87 non turbo

 

Might as well give up. Pat thinks he has to have the last word.