88IntegraLS

The acceleration has been verified with a Gtech pro. The powerband is very noticeable from 5k on up compared to before, and the way it doesn't fall off at 7k like before is also there to observe. I use the instantaneous G function. The car pulls ~.5+ from 4k up to rev cut. Before I did the beveling, it started to fall off at 7k. Whatever you want to accept is up to you.

I'm not here to prove anything, just stating my observations and what I did to the motor to cause them...........

ian99rt

iTrader: (7)

I'm not trying to be critical of the power it added but i don't believe any performance gains without a dyno sheet. Butt Dyno and Cheaptech pro don't work for a squat in my opion.

Then again i'm just one man with a negative attitude

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

^ That's kind of a pointless attitude IMO.

To expose (and undermine) that way of thinking, here's an extreme scenario:

"Oh, I just got a new turbo setup, it's WAY faster and I'm running twice as much boost as before"

Your response: "I don't believe your car's faster unless I see a dyno sheet"...

FB II

so... how low of a compression clr rotor could you get? i want under 8.0 atleast!

88IntegraLS

The cheaptech pro was within 3mph trap speed and .1 second ET at our local drag strip. Yes, I did a 1/4 mile run with the cheaptech pro on and compared it to the timeslip..........

More importantly, the cheaptech pro is consistent with its instantantaneous g function. Instant changes in acceleration are shown on the meter as a decimal g force and you can watch them change as the engine rockets up the rpm range. You need to come drive the car, the feel is very strong and very real...... considering it ran 14.7 @ 96 with my early streetport which was a lot milder than its current state, back when the power fell off noticeably at 6.5k.....

RETed

Again I ask...even with the GTech Pro, how did you get a good baseline when you knew the side seal was damaged???


-Ted

88IntegraLS

I just plugged the hole I made in my ram air intake for my intercooler and damn, ~.5psi dynamic ram air pressure at 80 mph is actually noticeable after all. The car is seriously a little dangerous now becuase once the magic number (5k rpm) hits, I lose control of myself and can't stop flooring the gas. The rotor just goes waaaaaaAAAAAAAAA! What a fu$king rush. I could almost live with this thing as NA. I promise I'll get some numbers on this car, either our local drag strip or a dyno, after I get my megasquirt installed. Maybe I'll even replace my stock main cat.

gildardo

So, how much are these beveled rotors from CLR?



Gil

kontakt

Yeah, but he also whipple charged one...

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i have no problems agreeing with you on these points. in fact, you and i see eye-to-eye with them.

the only thing that i do have a problem with is this superfluous need to have everything shown with a dyno sheet - especially in light of the fact that we have all seen them manipulated and misrepresented by people time and time again. they can be very useful in charting progress and in some cases giving credence to modifications. neither myself nor anyone else can dispute that. however, the ONLY thing one dyno sheet proves is that the car/engine did something at one moment in time. at least, that's how i see it - and this is why i kinda think it's a joke sometimes. if i were to pour a gallon of my girlfriend's pefrume into my tank and dynoed my car and it showed a 3 HP increase what does it prove if the the engine grenades itself two minutes after the pull? i can post it and who would be the wiser? i know it's a ridiculous analogy, but does this make sense?

now, i'm not going to say that the bevelling increased power so much that it can be noticed. that's not my reason for taking his side, rather my reason is this: i commend and encourage the people (who do not have engineering degrees or build cars for a living) that are not afraid to get in there and do things. people get excited and when they get excited, they may embellish. this is an Internet forum and though there may be tons of great info here, there will be stuff that you should simply disregard as entertainment. the people that come here and look to threads like this and expect to make 100 more HP are going to do that regardless of someone posting pride in their work. as you said, you don't like to take big risks. neither do i. and i doubt if any level-headed person would either.

by the way, regardless of the length of this post, it's not really meant as a rant per se and i'm not trying to personalize this either. i just wanted to explain my stance.

1

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

diabloical1 is correct. Anyone who has experience experimenting with a dyno itself, knows that it is an inaccurate measuring device. Strapping the car differently can yeild more power, substantially more power. I've done it many times. A dyno is accurate when adding a modification to the car without taking to much time or restrapping the car, yet that is partially inaccurate as well, if our environment changes a bit.

In 88IntegraLS's situation, he would have to build a motor, break it in, tune it, dyno it, take it apart, modify, rebuild, break in, tune, and redyno. That sounds silly, and it still only shows one thing, max power at a given rpms. Not throttle respone, not reliablitiy, and not drivability.

90WhiteVrt

Dyno! I'm curious to see what type of numbers your stock N/A is putting down.

Parastie

LoL
I think Ted has been on this forum a little too long.

As for the CLR bevoling, there seams to be the major drawback of compression. Since you're taking material out of the face of the rotor, you're going to lose compression which might negate any benefits from the bevoling. A slight bevoling (such as the rx8 rotors) is not going to make a large difference, but the CLR seems a little crazy.

theagavejazz

iTrader: (4)

damn that's so cool, I think I'm gonna try it when I build my engine. Thanks.

SureShot

Just the facts:
My rebuild is progressing.
G-tech before rebuild at 10PSI - 200 net HP.
It is a mild street port, with both the opening & closing rotor edges beveled.

The cause for rebuilding:


Secondary port:


Primary ports:


The rotor:


The early opening:


The late closing:


Exhaust before & after:


And - yes - I did lighten the counterweights.

ForsakenRX7

Has ANYONE gotten a price on the CLR rotors?

patman

iTrader: (3)

im not one to knock new stuff, but sureshot that looks like an accident waiting to happen to me. those are big bevels, and more importantly, they arent the same on both sides fo the rotor. its obviously going to be out of balance.

from an engineering standpoint, the beveling makes a lot of sense, and could easily be worth several HP, but if i were to do it myself without professional balancing, i would ONLY do it the way 88integrals did it, which is to bevel the WHOLE face of the rotor. doing it that way as long as you get them all pretty much the same, you preserve the balance to a good extent.

pat

SureShot

The asymetric bevels are exactly the same on all three faces.
Rotational balance matters, but front-to-rear never did.
I offset the bevels because the primaries open & close sooner.

The trick is balancing the counterweights to the slightly lighter rotors.

My only worry is if I have enough side seal shear on the closing edge of the side plate port.
The stock angle between the side seal & the port closing edge was about 15 degrees, and & I squared it up to about 5.

I hope the have the engine in by Christmas.

This post will either look stupid or brilliant after that.

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

88IntegraLS sounds like you are finalyl more or less happy with your car.

why is it so hard to go to they dyno esp for the NA guys, i could never understand this?
after all the modifications dont you atlest want to see if it was worth while? measuring gains with a butt dyno over the whole power band is very hard, though measuring a bump in it isnt. unless the gains are so large to where the car simply outaccelerates the old setup by a large margin its pretty much impossible to tell a ~5hp diffrence throughout the powerband.

anyway i hope to see a dyno soon 88IntegraLS!

88IntegraLS

Argh, yeah I promise to go to a dyno when the blower is functioning correctly. I never dyno tested the NA because quarter mile trap speed is what I'm interested in, which is a function of not only power band (area under the curve), but the engine's ability to produce that same power in a high rpm-dot situation (ie. in a situation where it is climbing rpm very rapidly - gas dynamics with changing flow rates in the intake for rev-up conditions are different than in a constant rpm situation).

Long story short, I've never really finished the car enough to get bragging rights other than the quarter mile runs last year when it went 96 mph in 90 degree weather at ~500ft. elevation. It will finally be finished when the charger is doing ~10psi gauge pressure in the intake manifold from 1500 - 8000 rpm. Then I might dyno it.

Some like the scientific numerical side of car building and tuning, some go with their intuition which is how I typically do things. Car feel is very intuitive to someone experienced with real racing, but I don't claim to prove anything with this thread, only that I noticed a change in the 5k+ rpm range that seemed atypical of butt dyno calibration error, and my Gtech verified it as well. Take it how you will, I'm comfortable with my position as one who has tried many more approaches to NA performance than 99% of the members on this forum, and have a vantage point of said performance modding atypical of my haters.

*edit*

Actually I think I'll plan to get to a dyno with the car NA within a couple months. I have the blower off for oil seal replacement and will be running around NA for a while, tuning in the megasquirt spark map and it would be cool to see what she's really worth without any belt driven boost on board. I've been very busy with school right now but it's almost time for winter break and getting the megasquirt ignition finally worked out is priority 1. God I miss this car, words can't describe how much of a blast it was to drive.

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

i meant to see an NA dyno chart, i could care less for a boosted one

ddub

Oh yah NA dyno chart... You're still waiting for me to do that with the tricks you taught me huh? Too bad I'm slow as ****

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

stock port na?

what stock na? who are you reffering to? 88IntegraLS doesnt have stock ports.

SureShot

Are you guys through now?

About rotor edge bevels - the rebuilt engine will go in this weekend.
I'm still daily driving the temporary J-spec, since I only keep one car at a time.
I think I will put the results in a new thread.

--MAstermind--

again no-one on price and how do you see this working on a non ported engine? would this aid in quicker spool? and since its lighter rotational inertia its quicker reving isnt it? (CLR rotors anyway) just wondering because when my 13bRE arrives i wanna rebiuld it using light weight housing and rotors.....this sounds like a great idea on the 13bRE i could only begin to imagine!