What's the most HP you could get with a N/A?
08-07-01, 12:14 AM
#1
...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 7,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's the most HP you could get with a N/A?
I was just wonderin the most HP u can get with a N/A w/o addin a turbo or supercharger or even takin the engine out? And wut would the mods be & wut kind of 1/4 mi could i expect? Thanks.
Chris
Chris
08-07-01, 12:22 AM
#2
mad scientist
On a stock port, the limit is probably 240-250 hp, but that is with every bolt on possible. Im pretty close to that on my car.
Current mod list:
cone filter
TB mod
ported intake manifold
RB dual outlet headers-->straight pipes all
the way to the mufflers
all emissions removed, including air pump
6 port sleeves removed
electric fan
UD pulleys, main and alternator
TII fuel pump and 550 cc secondaries
A/c and p/s removed
Crane Hi-6
NGK plug wires
timing advanced
some weight reduction...~2600 lbs
Redline ~8500 rpm
That puts me at about 230 bhp. I am doing the Mustang MAF sensor conversion as soon as I get the schematics for it. Other than that, theres not really anything else I can do without opening up my motor or doing forced induction.
Current mod list:
cone filter
TB mod
ported intake manifold
RB dual outlet headers-->straight pipes all
the way to the mufflers
all emissions removed, including air pump
6 port sleeves removed
electric fan
UD pulleys, main and alternator
TII fuel pump and 550 cc secondaries
A/c and p/s removed
Crane Hi-6
NGK plug wires
timing advanced
some weight reduction...~2600 lbs
Redline ~8500 rpm
That puts me at about 230 bhp. I am doing the Mustang MAF sensor conversion as soon as I get the schematics for it. Other than that, theres not really anything else I can do without opening up my motor or doing forced induction.
08-07-01, 03:49 AM
#3
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Caldwell,ID
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey mazda speed when you get that mustang MAF let me know man
I going wanting get more power on my own N/A here
how much of a diff did the manifold port make on your car?
also what would you say for exhuast
N1 dual with header and downpipe. or the true dual like what mazda trix sells
I going wanting get more power on my own N/A here
how much of a diff did the manifold port make on your car?
also what would you say for exhuast
N1 dual with header and downpipe. or the true dual like what mazda trix sells
08-07-01, 03:58 AM
#5
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Caldwell,ID
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey mazda speed when you get that mustang MAF let me know man
I going wanting get more power on my own N/A here
how much of a diff did the manifold port make on your car?
also what would you say for exhuast
N1 dual with header and downpipe. or the true dual like what mazda trix sells
I going wanting get more power on my own N/A here
how much of a diff did the manifold port make on your car?
also what would you say for exhuast
N1 dual with header and downpipe. or the true dual like what mazda trix sells
08-07-01, 07:24 AM
#6
Lives on the Forum
I highly doubt you could hit 200hp to the wheels with the stock ports, period.  I'd like to see dyno runs of such a beast if you're going to brag about such numbers.
I've seen ported motors not even hit 200hp to the wheels with stock computers.  It's possible a stand-alone on a ported motor could break the magical 200hp to the wheels barrier.
Most people would agree that even a (street) ported motor would be hard pressed to break 220 to the wheels with everything you threw at it short of making the engine unstreetable (wild bridgeport, PP, 12kRPM redlines).
-Ted
I've seen ported motors not even hit 200hp to the wheels with stock computers.  It's possible a stand-alone on a ported motor could break the magical 200hp to the wheels barrier.
Most people would agree that even a (street) ported motor would be hard pressed to break 220 to the wheels with everything you threw at it short of making the engine unstreetable (wild bridgeport, PP, 12kRPM redlines).
-Ted
08-07-01, 08:05 AM
#7
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I have seen n/a PP 13B's make 380BHP@9500rpm...now what the hell that is in rwhp? depends on who's dyno and heaps of factors.
It would be no more than 320rwhp.
1/4 times would be in the 10's no problem in a car weighing around 2200lbs or 1000kg running 10" slicks on a drag track.
Expect mph to be in the 118 to 122 range with road car type gearbox etc.
It would be too extreme for the street, and when run in street trim (read: an exhaust muffler) would be down alot of power and revs.
It would be no more than 320rwhp.
1/4 times would be in the 10's no problem in a car weighing around 2200lbs or 1000kg running 10" slicks on a drag track.
Expect mph to be in the 118 to 122 range with road car type gearbox etc.
It would be too extreme for the street, and when run in street trim (read: an exhaust muffler) would be down alot of power and revs.
Trending Topics
08-07-01, 08:27 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A guy I know runs a shop with a dyno who tunes SCCA ITA cars. ITA cars must retain the stock porting, but intake, exhaust, ecu, pulleys, etc are allowed. He said that 220-225 at the flywheel was commonly attained. This isn't for the street since the exhaust system measures at about 104db at full throttle.
08-07-01, 08:51 AM
#9
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the guy was asking how much power without taking the motor apart...that puts him in the ,NO bridge or PP port motors.So i would agree with RETed about the "no more then 200hp"
08-07-01, 11:41 AM
#10
mad scientist
Originally posted by rxspeed87
hey mazda speed when you get that mustang MAF let me know man
I going wanting get more power on my own N/A here
how much of a diff did the manifold port make on your car?
also what would you say for exhuast
N1 dual with header and downpipe. or the true dual like what mazda trix sells
hey mazda speed when you get that mustang MAF let me know man
I going wanting get more power on my own N/A here
how much of a diff did the manifold port make on your car?
also what would you say for exhuast
N1 dual with header and downpipe. or the true dual like what mazda trix sells
My exhaust is true dual like the Mazdatrix one.
08-07-01, 11:46 AM
#11
Three spinning triangles
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Been all around this world and still call Texas home (Ft Worth)
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its quite possible I belive to put 200+ hp to the ground since Chris and Rocky at Rotory Performance (www.rx7.com) said they can put one together with some very mild porting and bolt ons and keep it as streetable as a stocker. They also will garuntee the power since they have a dyno right there at thier shop.
Last edited by PaulC; 08-07-01 at 11:49 AM.
08-07-01, 11:47 AM
#12
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go speed is correct the max amount of horsepower you can expect at the flywheel on 2nd gen 13b is 220-225hp, which with a low figure of 18% drivetrain loss you end up with about 180hp.
There is also a guy who has just been working with a 2nd gen 13b streetport who has managed to get about 250hp at the flywheel, but that was using a motec fuel system.
The reality thing is that most people talk about how much horsepower they have, but most cases it is based on someone else measurements or what the ad in the mag said that they get by adding it to your car.
I will be within the next month giving figures of what parts do what to a 13b as I am having a Clayton Chassis Dyno installed.
There is also a guy who has just been working with a 2nd gen 13b streetport who has managed to get about 250hp at the flywheel, but that was using a motec fuel system.
The reality thing is that most people talk about how much horsepower they have, but most cases it is based on someone else measurements or what the ad in the mag said that they get by adding it to your car.
I will be within the next month giving figures of what parts do what to a 13b as I am having a Clayton Chassis Dyno installed.
08-07-01, 11:50 AM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Alberta
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fastest N/A I have seen
My friend has an N/A that isn't really a looker, but it has a sweet engine in it.
It has upgraded rotors, flywheel, you name it. 1200cc injectors mmm
He is pulling off a nice 249 HP to the wheels right now, 40 HP more than my near stock Turbo II.
It has upgraded rotors, flywheel, you name it. 1200cc injectors mmm
He is pulling off a nice 249 HP to the wheels right now, 40 HP more than my near stock Turbo II.
08-07-01, 12:36 PM
#15
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Diego
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like to see the dyno figures on the motor. What year motor is it. I didn't think you could put that large of a port on a 2nd gen motor with six ports without filling the ports and starting again.
What kind of computer is he running.
What kind of computer is he running.
08-07-01, 06:42 PM
#16
...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 7,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1/4 mi times?
I see that the basic figure everyone went with was around 200-230 Hp...what do you think that would add up to in 1/4 mi times with a good driver? And with slicks? Thanks again.
Chris
Chris
08-07-01, 10:53 PM
#17
Lives on the Forum
Re: he also has the nasty big port though
Originally posted by PraxRX7
He does however have the Big Bad Port that breaches the water seals...so his engine life is limited
He does however have the Big Bad Port that breaches the water seals...so his engine life is limited
This doesn't count, as this is NOT "stock ports".
-Ted
08-07-01, 10:55 PM
#18
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by PaulC
Its quite possible I belive to put 200+ hp to the ground since Chris and Rocky at Rotory Performance (www.rx7.com) said they can put one together with some very mild porting and bolt ons and keep it as streetable as a stocker. They also will garuntee the power since they have a dyno right there at thier shop.
Its quite possible I belive to put 200+ hp to the ground since Chris and Rocky at Rotory Performance (www.rx7.com) said they can put one together with some very mild porting and bolt ons and keep it as streetable as a stocker. They also will garuntee the power since they have a dyno right there at thier shop.
-Ted
08-08-01, 01:15 AM
#19
mad scientist
Ted, I will get my car dynoed before I pull the engine and port it. I will have the graph online before and after my porting.
How much hp would it take a n/a FC to lose to a 300Z TT by only a car length and a half in the 1/4 mile? I raced one last weekend and that was the result. The 300 Z had intake, but was otherwise stock. I actually pulled ahead a little at the top of 1st, then he pulled to a car and a half in front of me in 2nd, and 3rd was dead even. We both shot down at 100 mph. It was on the street, but we raced at the place everybody goes to race, and a 1/4 mile is marked off.
How much hp would it take a n/a FC to lose to a 300Z TT by only a car length and a half in the 1/4 mile? I raced one last weekend and that was the result. The 300 Z had intake, but was otherwise stock. I actually pulled ahead a little at the top of 1st, then he pulled to a car and a half in front of me in 2nd, and 3rd was dead even. We both shot down at 100 mph. It was on the street, but we raced at the place everybody goes to race, and a 1/4 mile is marked off.
08-08-01, 02:07 AM
#20
Super Newbie
Originally posted by MAZMAN
the guy was asking how much power without taking the motor apart...that puts him in the ,NO bridge or PP port motors.So i would agree with RETed about the "no more then 200hp"
the guy was asking how much power without taking the motor apart...that puts him in the ,NO bridge or PP port motors.So i would agree with RETed about the "no more then 200hp"
08-09-01, 01:29 AM
#21
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by mazdaspeed7
How much hp would it take a n/a FC to lose to a 300Z TT by only a car length and a half in the 1/4 mile? I raced one last weekend and that was the result. The 300 Z had intake, but was otherwise stock. I actually pulled ahead a little at the top of 1st, then he pulled to a car and a half in front of me in 2nd, and 3rd was dead even. We both shot down at 100 mph. It was on the street, but we raced at the place everybody goes to race, and a 1/4 mile is marked off.
How much hp would it take a n/a FC to lose to a 300Z TT by only a car length and a half in the 1/4 mile? I raced one last weekend and that was the result. The 300 Z had intake, but was otherwise stock. I actually pulled ahead a little at the top of 1st, then he pulled to a car and a half in front of me in 2nd, and 3rd was dead even. We both shot down at 100 mph. It was on the street, but we raced at the place everybody goes to race, and a 1/4 mile is marked off.
By your description, you car looks like it does the 1/4-mile at around mid to low 14's.  I know of another NA FC that cracked a 14.0x - that car ONLY dyno'd at 170hp to the rear wheels.
Eagerly awaiting dyno graphs.
Dudes, I know it looks like I'm ragging you, but my experience shows that your claims are not possible.  If you do prove me wrong, MORE POWER TO YOU!  I really want to see if it's possible to build a pretty quick (I'd be happy with mid 13's!) NA FC, as we're close to building a NA FC for NASA Pro Sedan class racing using a '89-'91 engine and ECU...
-Ted
08-09-01, 11:53 AM
#22
mad scientist
Ted, heres what I think about all this. 230-240 bhp is possible in a stock port engine, but only in an ideal world, and it would need a Haltech or other ECU to do it. But we dont live in an ideal world, and things tend to not work as good as they could/should. I took my car to the track, but my intake temps were sky high, which was killing my power. it was also my first time at the track. My car felt very slow whewn I was there. I need to make a cold air box so I can get my temps down.
With my current setup inhaling hot air, I would be happy to hit 200bhp. with a cold air box, 210 could be possible.
Also, the stoxk MAF sensor is a major restriction on the intake side. if you can get rid of that with a Haltech, my previous numbers become a little more realistic.
With my current setup inhaling hot air, I would be happy to hit 200bhp. with a cold air box, 210 could be possible.
Also, the stoxk MAF sensor is a major restriction on the intake side. if you can get rid of that with a Haltech, my previous numbers become a little more realistic.
08-09-01, 01:09 PM
#24
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hp na stock
I am building my stock block 87 gxl na right now and when I start trying out stuff I will be posting the information later on my site. Eventually will port the block and do some other things but in the mean time goto groundzero.rx7life.com. It will be atleast a month before I am on the road though.
08-09-01, 02:49 PM
#25
mad scientist
Originally posted by go_speed_go
A guy I know runs a shop with a dyno who tunes SCCA ITA cars. ITA cars must retain the stock porting, but intake, exhaust, ecu, pulleys, etc are allowed. He said that 220-225 at the flywheel was commonly attained. This isn't for the street since the exhaust system measures at about 104db at full throttle.
A guy I know runs a shop with a dyno who tunes SCCA ITA cars. ITA cars must retain the stock porting, but intake, exhaust, ecu, pulleys, etc are allowed. He said that 220-225 at the flywheel was commonly attained. This isn't for the street since the exhaust system measures at about 104db at full throttle.