Whats the best Oil filter???
#28
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Originally Posted by Icemark
OEM,
avoid Fram
avoid Fram
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Originally Posted by dizflyaznboi
...when i got my jspec motor it had a mazda oem oil filter on it, I dunno if I should be happy that they used an OEM filter, or be scared it has the same filter it came from the factory with.
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Im going to just laugh at all of you who talk trash about Fram...
I worked in one of their plants, and seen actual data from 3rd partys who compared them to other major brands..... The frams kicked their *** in single and multipass efficiency.... They only have cardboard if you get the bottom of the line ones.... get one of the better ones, cut it apart and you wont see cardboard.
I worked in one of their plants, and seen actual data from 3rd partys who compared them to other major brands..... The frams kicked their *** in single and multipass efficiency.... They only have cardboard if you get the bottom of the line ones.... get one of the better ones, cut it apart and you wont see cardboard.
#40
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by eld101
Im going to just laugh at all of you who talk trash about Fram...
I worked in one of their plants, and seen actual data from 3rd partys who compared them to other major brands..... The frams kicked their *** in single and multipass efficiency.... They only have cardboard if you get the bottom of the line ones.... get one of the better ones, cut it apart and you wont see cardboard.
I worked in one of their plants, and seen actual data from 3rd partys who compared them to other major brands..... The frams kicked their *** in single and multipass efficiency.... They only have cardboard if you get the bottom of the line ones.... get one of the better ones, cut it apart and you wont see cardboard.
Maybe you can explain this then from a former engineer at Allied Signal:
Russell,
I obtained great satisfaction from reading your oil filter survey.
I worked for two years as the oil-filter production line engineer in
an Allied-Signal FRAM facility and I can confirm every bad thing you
have said about FRAM automotive filters. That's from the horse's
mouth, as it were.
I'm also a quality engineer and can confirm that FRAM applies no
quality control whatsoever to any of the characteristics for which we
buy oil filters. I frequently saw filter designs which were barely
capable of meeting J806. Many of FRAM's designs will block and go to
bypass after trying to filter very little contamination. There were
often leakage paths at the paper end discs when these were not
properly centered on the elements. Some designs had the pleats so
tightly packed against the center tube that they would block off in no
time. I had discovered that the FRAM HP1 that I had been buying for
about $20 Cdn was EXACTLY the same as a PH8 inside - the only
difference being a heavier can - no advantages in flow capacity. The
paper filtration media was of apparently poor quality and the process
of curing the paper resin was very inconsistent - elements would range
from visibly burnt to white. FRAM's marketers admitted that there was
just about no way the public could ever prove that an oil filter
contributed, or did not prevent, engine damage. The only thing FRAM
tested for was can burst strength. Another problem that they have from
time to time is in threading the filter base - often there are strands
of metal left behind on a poorly formed thread.
I have not used a FRAM filter since I started working there. Their
claims are entirely and completely marketing bullshit.
If people really want to protect their engines, a good air filter is
vital (which excludes FRAM from that list as well) and a combination
of one depth and one full-flow hydraulic filter, together in parallel,
will do the job of filtration to perfection.
Thanks for doing a great job in trying to get the truth out! You can
quote me anytime.
[name omitted to protect submitter]
I obtained great satisfaction from reading your oil filter survey.
I worked for two years as the oil-filter production line engineer in
an Allied-Signal FRAM facility and I can confirm every bad thing you
have said about FRAM automotive filters. That's from the horse's
mouth, as it were.
I'm also a quality engineer and can confirm that FRAM applies no
quality control whatsoever to any of the characteristics for which we
buy oil filters. I frequently saw filter designs which were barely
capable of meeting J806. Many of FRAM's designs will block and go to
bypass after trying to filter very little contamination. There were
often leakage paths at the paper end discs when these were not
properly centered on the elements. Some designs had the pleats so
tightly packed against the center tube that they would block off in no
time. I had discovered that the FRAM HP1 that I had been buying for
about $20 Cdn was EXACTLY the same as a PH8 inside - the only
difference being a heavier can - no advantages in flow capacity. The
paper filtration media was of apparently poor quality and the process
of curing the paper resin was very inconsistent - elements would range
from visibly burnt to white. FRAM's marketers admitted that there was
just about no way the public could ever prove that an oil filter
contributed, or did not prevent, engine damage. The only thing FRAM
tested for was can burst strength. Another problem that they have from
time to time is in threading the filter base - often there are strands
of metal left behind on a poorly formed thread.
I have not used a FRAM filter since I started working there. Their
claims are entirely and completely marketing bullshit.
If people really want to protect their engines, a good air filter is
vital (which excludes FRAM from that list as well) and a combination
of one depth and one full-flow hydraulic filter, together in parallel,
will do the job of filtration to perfection.
Thanks for doing a great job in trying to get the truth out! You can
quote me anytime.
[name omitted to protect submitter]
More scary stuff about Fram:
Fram Extra Guard PH8A
This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.
The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin, cheap looking backplate, and is currently stamped with a "2Y". There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
Element Surface Area 193 square inches
Fram Tough Guard TG8A
This filter has an improved filter element with more surface area (248 sqin), a heavy silicone anti-drainback valve with a good sealing surface, the same plastic pressure relief valve but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. In my opinion, the only real drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal.
The telltale signs for a Fram Tough Guard filter are: It has a better backplate that is usually shiny, with six larger holes for the inlet and 6 spot welds around the them. There are 6 large crimps holding the gasket in place. When you look through the inlet holes, you can see the orange anti-drainback valve. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
Element Surface Area 248 square inches
Fram Double Guard DG8A
This is one of the most expensive filters you can buy. Inside is a basic Fram Extra Guard (PH8A) filter element that has larger diameter holes at the end and has been pre-oiled. You can see this in the picture above (far left). I assume this is to hold the Teflon particles in the filter element before the unit is installed. Don't put Teflon in your engine. It does not belong there! DuPont does not recommend using their Teflon product in internal combustion engines.
Although it has the lowest filter element surface area (193 sqin), it does have a clever spring-loaded nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve and bypass valve combination.
The telltale signs for a Fram Tough Guard filter are: It has a better backplate that is usually shiny, with six larger holes for the inlet and 6 spot welds around the them. The backplate may be stamped with a "1K". There are 6 large crimps holding the gasket in place. The anti-drainback valve diaphragm behind the inlet holes is black. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will not see the "button" in the end cap of the cartridge like the other Frams.
Element Surface Area 193 square inches
This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.
The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin, cheap looking backplate, and is currently stamped with a "2Y". There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
Element Surface Area 193 square inches
Fram Tough Guard TG8A
This filter has an improved filter element with more surface area (248 sqin), a heavy silicone anti-drainback valve with a good sealing surface, the same plastic pressure relief valve but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. In my opinion, the only real drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal.
The telltale signs for a Fram Tough Guard filter are: It has a better backplate that is usually shiny, with six larger holes for the inlet and 6 spot welds around the them. There are 6 large crimps holding the gasket in place. When you look through the inlet holes, you can see the orange anti-drainback valve. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
Element Surface Area 248 square inches
Fram Double Guard DG8A
This is one of the most expensive filters you can buy. Inside is a basic Fram Extra Guard (PH8A) filter element that has larger diameter holes at the end and has been pre-oiled. You can see this in the picture above (far left). I assume this is to hold the Teflon particles in the filter element before the unit is installed. Don't put Teflon in your engine. It does not belong there! DuPont does not recommend using their Teflon product in internal combustion engines.
Although it has the lowest filter element surface area (193 sqin), it does have a clever spring-loaded nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve and bypass valve combination.
The telltale signs for a Fram Tough Guard filter are: It has a better backplate that is usually shiny, with six larger holes for the inlet and 6 spot welds around the them. The backplate may be stamped with a "1K". There are 6 large crimps holding the gasket in place. The anti-drainback valve diaphragm behind the inlet holes is black. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will not see the "button" in the end cap of the cartridge like the other Frams.
Element Surface Area 193 square inches
Filters To Avoid
The following list of filters have known problems. You will see well-known names here and will probably be disappointed. This is because many of these brands have stopped making their own filters and buy from a common manufacturer.
Fram Extra Guard
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.
Fram Double Guard
Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure relief valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. Dupont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter.
Penzoil
This filter is a Fram! It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version.
Quaker State
This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Penzoil...
The following list of filters have known problems. You will see well-known names here and will probably be disappointed. This is because many of these brands have stopped making their own filters and buy from a common manufacturer.
Fram Extra Guard
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.
Fram Double Guard
Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure relief valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. Dupont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter.
Penzoil
This filter is a Fram! It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version.
Quaker State
This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Penzoil...
Or if you just want filter area comparisons to the Mazda Under 2.0 filters:
http://www.teammiata.com/libs/oil-filters.htm
Again, filter area, should not be the only concern. An Anti drain back valve should be mandatory on any oil filter used on a rotary engine, as well as element quality (how much does it really filter and protect).
Last edited by Icemark; 04-29-07 at 12:56 AM.
#42
Rotary Freak
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Thanks for all that information Icemark.
This is very disapointing since I get my oil changed at service stations and they put on Quaker State filters. I knew they were far from oem and couldn't even be compaired but I was hoping the were better then Fram. Im going to have to go to mazda and buy some extra filters now.
Penzoil
This filter is a Fram! It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version.
Quaker State
This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Penzoil...
This filter is a Fram! It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version.
Quaker State
This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Penzoil...
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