Kurgan

What would pay for a kit that included EVERY custom part, some home made (professionally) parts, all of the off the shelf parts to drop a 20B into your car?

Now, we know that this swap is not cheap, but if there was a kit, it would take the guess work out of EVERYTHING and give you a guarantee that everything that you have will be there and ready to go on.

I'm talking everything from the fuel system, injectors, regulator, fuel rail, clutch, flywheel, intercooler, custom piping for the IC, custom front sway bar to fit the engine in, custom oil cooler lines... EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED.

In all honesty, if you do this yourself, piecing together everything.... with trial and error, you're gonna spend 10k without the engine. What if someone offered a kit for around $6500 - 7500 (I'm still pricing things) that would include EVERYTHING but the engine (Or I could supple the engine for $2500 more) and a Haltech. It would even include a precut and ready to install Haltech harness and an upgraded radiator. This would include a very detailed installation manual, and possibly a video.

Nothing would be left out....

Any interest?

jspecracer7

That would be ideal. However, with the large amount of people saying,"That's a great idea. Sign me up!"...then later on say, "Oh, I ran into financial difficulty"...well, you know how that goes.

I think if it was a complete it to include engine/haltech, then anywhere between $8000 and $12000...

HOZZMANRX7

iTrader: (43)

What he said.

RETed

It sounds like stock 20B twin turbos?


-Ted

Evil Aviator

Please define what "EVERY" custom part and "all" of the off the shelf parts means. Mine has a custom billet aluminum dual thermostat housing, custom dual Spal fan shroud, custom Griffin radiator, custom Spearco intercooler and mounts, custom 321 SS exhaust, custom quick-change V-band cat, custom turbo manifold, off the shelf Quartermaster 5.5" 2-disk clutch, Mazda Comp racing flywheel, Wolf3D 4.0, GReddy Wastegate, Turbonetics T-66 turbo, 9" K&N cone filter, TiAL BOV, Aeroquip hoses and fittings, full SPA gauge set, etc. Are you going to include all that, or is it going to be a bunch of junkyard parts and dryer hose? Also, I started with an SE, so I needed a TII hood, so is that included too? Bacically, you need to list what exactly is included in the kit, and what kind of car is required to start with before anybody can tell you what the kit is worth.

BTW, if you are seriously considering marketing this kit, please realize that you are going to spend a lot of time on the phone long distance and with email explaining to the idiots who buy this kit how to perform basic tasks. You are also going to have the privilege of dealing with bad checks/credit cards, psycho customers, merchandise returns, merchandise lost/damaged in shipping, supply shortages, people who blame your products when they blow up their engine (see current FCD thread), people who badmouth you no matter what you do, and heaven help you if anybody wraps their 20B around a telephone pole and the lawyers come looking for you. These are some of the reasons why I declined a position in the EMS industry. Calculate your profit margin wisely, Grasshopper, and I hope like heck that you incorporate to protect yourself.

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

owie, that hurt


8k for everying? i was poking around the 20b forum today for the first time and saw a price list for a cosmo swap.. and it wasnt 8k it was like 20k..

that sounds to good to be true, but then again, after all that, im going to need a beffy drive train, i doubt my s4 n/a could handle that..

Evil Aviator

The stock TII tranny will last a while if the 20B retains the stock turbos. Yes, after that you are looking at spending $5,000 to $19,000 on a racing transmission, not to mention the driveshaft, halfshafts, and differential. I am checking into a less-expensive T-56 as an option for stock-redline 20B engines.

BTW, I didn't intend to flame on my last post, but to bring up a reality check.

Kurgan

I'm already incorporated, not worried about that. Bonded and insured.

I'm defining every custom piece as every custom piece that I had to do. Everything that I had to do will be in this kit.

This is for a stock twin turbo setup. Could add a single turbo conversion with Garret GT4042, oil and water lines for somewhere in the $4000 price range.

These are all just guestimates. I'm still waiting to hear how much the sway bar is going to be....

Fuel system:
----------------
Skyline fuel pump
SX FPR with Fuel Pressure gauge
3 1680cc Injectors
Marvelspeed custom secondary fuel rail with mounts
Morosso brass fittings for fuel rail
Fuel line
New hard lines from the firewall to the rail and back

Cooling:
----------
13bt water pump and housing
Griffin Radiator
Spal or black magic fan
Custom radiator hoses

intake:
---------
Dual cone filters
modified compressor outlet neck
removed stock bov
custom intercooler piping
Spearco core and end tanks
Greddy Type R BOV
Custom TB adapter

Exhaust:
-----------
Custom downpipe

Other:
--------
Precut Haltech harness ready to "drop in"
6-puck clutch disk
Racing beat 17 lb flywheel
ACT Extreme pressure plate
Custom anti swaybar
Custom oil cooler lines

Optional:
------------
Jspec JDM 20B
Marvelspeed rebuilt 20B
Porting options, such as how big, intake style, yada yada
Twin turbo modifications to run in true non-sequential

Obviously, some things are open to change, and I know that left some stuff out

And I'm probably forgetting some things....

Kurgan

one more thing, this is meant for a T2 donor car. If you want to put it in your NA, you can, but you would need a T2 tranny, rearend, driveshaft, and maybe a 5-lug conversion... its up to you.

We could also offer a 20B NA solution for an eventual RELIABLE 300 rwhp (after porting) for about 1000 bucks less. (obviously not including the engine porting and internal parts) Would anyone be interested in that?

When I say 20B NA solution, I mean running your 20B NA, not putting it in your NA FC.

Evil Aviator

Holy shikies, do you stock all that stuff? Do you own Nopi or something?

Well, it looks like you understand the business side. Now for the technical...

What size/type of fuel line, size of Spearco core, brand of radiator hose, material of IC and DP piping? How about the ignition system, BOV, tachometer, engine mounts, and a block-off/mounting plate for the starter? Um, what is the modified compressor outlet neck for? LOL, I know that I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, too.

BTW, I don't think that a single-disk clutch is going to work very well, but I guess you will be able to better determine that once you finish your car.

FCdemon

wow, nice digital pics on the website. did you rebuild the 20B or did it get to you freshly rebuilt?

seventhgear

IM SOOOOOOOOOOOOO THERE!!!

Scott 89t2

how many 20b's are even left in the world??.... not many left. these kits might not might be too helpfull in the near future if there is no engines left. there was a number a little while back. but there were not many 20b comos made in japan.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Looks like the kit is a lot simpler if you already have a 3-500hp range built 13B.

--------------------------------------------
Fuel system:
----------------
Skyline fuel pump
SX FPR with Fuel Pressure gauge
3 1680cc Injectors
Marvelspeed custom secondary fuel rail with mounts
Morosso brass fittings for fuel rail
Fuel line
New hard lines from the firewall to the rail and back
----------------------------------------------

One more 1600cc injector and modified 2ndary rail

----------------------------------------------
Cooling:
----------
13bt water pump and housing
Griffin Radiator
Spal or black magic fan
Custom radiator hoses
-----------------------------------------------

nothing needed

-----------------------------------------------
intake:
---------
Dual cone filters
modified compressor outlet neck
removed stock bov
custom intercooler piping
Spearco core and end tanks
Greddy Type R BOV
Custom TB adapter
------------------------------------------------

filter, IC piping, TB adapter needed

-------------------------------------------------
Exhaust:
-----------
Custom downpipe
-------------------------------------------------

can't avoid that!

-------------------------------------------------
Other:
--------
Precut Haltech harness ready to "drop in"
6-puck clutch disk
Racing beat 17 lb flywheel
ACT Extreme pressure plate
Custom anti swaybar
Custom oil cooler lines
---------------------------------------------------

anti sway bar and oil lines and don't forget motor mounts

Maybe you could offer a couple levels of "kit"
I haven't seen anyone on the forums sway bar solution. Whats yours?

Kurgan

I don't stock the stuff, I'm not even saying I'm doing this... just testing the waters. But, I do have a MAJOR hookup for everything, so thats that.

Fuel line is 3/8" or -6 AN, which ever I decide to go with. Obviously, the AN fittings will be more money.

The ignition is the only ghetto thing... 3 FC leading coil packs, no split. It'll work, and work fine, but I don't like the no split... but not many options right now...

The modified compressor oulet tube gets rid of the stock BOV (I thought I said that already), plus, it removes all of those useless little flanges and crap that are left behind. It also shortens the outlet height and angles it in slightly.

I don't know of a need for a starter block off plate when using an S5 tranny... maybe S4 is differet, but I doubt it.

I forgot to list the motor mounts, but I've already included that in the cost. I already said that it would come with a BOV, most likely Greddy Type R. IC piping will most likely be aluminum, but could be replaced with powdercoated aluminized steel to save some cash for the end user.

You seem bitter.

Kurgan

It is a LOT cheaper if you already have a built FC. You'll need another injector and a new fuel rail... a couple of other things.

Different level of kits is a DEFINITE possibility. I mentioned the possibility of an NA kit... upgrade kit, full swap, single turbo kits... whatever, its all VERY possible right now.

Yeah, I forgot to type out Motor Mounts, but I was already including them.

The swaybars, I'm having custom ones bent.

Kurgan

20Bs are still around... they may become scarce, but you can ALWAYS frankenstein a 13b. all you need is the eccentric shaft and the 2nd intermediate housing with the stationary gears in it... plus the intake manifolds. All of which Mazdacomp stocks...

I honestly can't see fabricating and selling more than 10 or so of these kits... Its the dream of many... but most people just wouldn't have the cash. But, to make it easier for the ones that are attempting, thats my goal.

Kurgan

Its a Marvelspeed rebuild. I bought a Jspec and had it rebuilt and heavily ported by Marvelspeed. Can't wait for the single turbo next year

Kurgan

WOOHOO!!!

Its my 1000th post, everyone celbrate.


sorry.

SpYdEr

Congrats on becomming a mini-postwhore!

BadBoy

grats on your post heeh im trying to get there as well...but as for the kit...the more easily things are made for us amatures, the better hehe bolt on simple this and that. i have some money set aside for some performance but am thinking maybe if i wait a bit longer the newer cars coming out will be a cheaper alternative to speed and will be able to upgrade fromt hat base speed as well. dang i just cant make up my mind.

Fred

jspecracer7

I see you have your stuff in order. Looks like a VERY good idea for the poeple who want it done AND have the cash for someone who has previously done this to personally walk them through it. Hope if all works out.

...and congratulations on the 1000th post!!!

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

Man, im in the mists of maby comming up with a bussiness plan from a company owner to sponser a drag racing team, and i was completly discoraged by the site of 35-45k to do this cosmo swap into the drag car, but now seeing a number under 15k.. maby ill keep my options open, im still learning, and it would take me months ecause im a student, but if i got funding to do this.. i would

about the tranny, theres a current thread, maby 2 days old, in th 20b section i think, or maby it was rotarty performence, well either way, its all about dog box's and i saw some pretty impressive numbers for these transmisions, some 1200hp capabile if you could reinforce the belhousing, but you were probly safe at 700 or so w/o reinforcements, ill find the link when i get home

Evil Aviator

OK, I just ran the numbers quickly, but I'm getting a retail price of around 7-8K USD, not including the engine or shipping. This seems about right for a stock-turbo 20B FC install. BTW, the 300hp NA kit is going to cost much more than the 550hp REW block, but you could maybe sell it to the GT racers (turbos not allowed) if you add a dry sump and competition water pump, and ditch the thermostat.

You will see the gap when you mate the engine to your transmission, and then try to mount the starter. You will see that the starter has nowhere to mount in the front, so I'm having a plate made which both covers the hole and allows a mounting ring for the starter bolt.

No, I'm just trying to be realistic. Oh yeah, and I'm Evil.