what happens if you drive your car untuned?
11-27-04, 09:55 AM
#1
what happens if you drive your car untuned?
Right now I'm being kind of dumb because I'm driving my car around without being tuned. I would have went ahead and did it by now but there is only one dyno place around here and they charge 125.00 per hour to tune the car and frankly I don't know if I trust these guys to do because they more than likely have never tuned a rotary before. I was wondering what kind of damage I could be causing my car? I know if I run too lean I have a chance of detonating and pinging but that hasn't happend at all yet. Is there anything else that could go wrong with an untuned engine??? I set my safc to run pretty rich so that I wouldn't go lean starting from 3krpm on up the rpm range. Any insight would be great! Thanks!
11-27-04, 10:01 AM
#2
Engine, Not Motor
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Running too rich will waste gas. You'll also wash the oil film off the housings (greater wear) and pollute the oil with fuel (which will thin it, and in extreme cases, cause bearing damage).
At the very least, get an A/F gauge, which will tell you if you are in the ballpark...
At the very least, get an A/F gauge, which will tell you if you are in the ballpark...
11-27-04, 10:27 AM
#5
Aaron is right. Running waaay rich can do some damage. I know first hand.
People get too worried about a shops rotary tuning experience. The procedure for tuning is the same for piston and rotary. All that differs are the AFR numbers that you are tuning for.
So if the shop doesn't know them, then just tell them the numbers, and they will do it. You can do some searching, but 13.5 at transition point, mid 12's up to 7 psi, and mid 11's after that (low 11's, high 10's for really high boost) are a decent guideline.
If you are tuning a full standalone, then ignition timing plays a role too. Again, there are lots of guidlines out there to make a basic igniton map (Single Turbo Forum). Or you can look at various peoples maps. All the ones I have seen a very similar in terms of timing.
Sure, these won't be car optimzed timing maps (with ramped advance after peak torque etc etc), which a good rotary tuner could do, but they will be safe and with a good fuel map will allow your car to run great.
People get too worried about a shops rotary tuning experience. The procedure for tuning is the same for piston and rotary. All that differs are the AFR numbers that you are tuning for.
So if the shop doesn't know them, then just tell them the numbers, and they will do it. You can do some searching, but 13.5 at transition point, mid 12's up to 7 psi, and mid 11's after that (low 11's, high 10's for really high boost) are a decent guideline.
If you are tuning a full standalone, then ignition timing plays a role too. Again, there are lots of guidlines out there to make a basic igniton map (Single Turbo Forum). Or you can look at various peoples maps. All the ones I have seen a very similar in terms of timing.
Sure, these won't be car optimzed timing maps (with ramped advance after peak torque etc etc), which a good rotary tuner could do, but they will be safe and with a good fuel map will allow your car to run great.
11-27-04, 11:10 AM
#6
Thanks evilrotor I'll bookmark this thread and tell him the numbers you specified. So 13.5 at 3500rpm your talking about??? I'm using an safc so it only does it in increments of 1000 so I guess 13.5 for 3000rpm correct. Also what happend in your case with running to ritch?
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11-27-04, 11:45 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by 88t2romad
same here with the a/f gauge
yall must own the autometer lightshow/AF meter, they dont do anything but flash back and forth. ive only known one car ever to have a properly working autometer AF and he bought the car like that so i have no clue how it worked. most people sugest just to get a EGT guage insead.
11-27-04, 11:46 AM
#10
i'll blow YOUR valve off
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lol just makin sure...
how untuned are we talking here? like just a SAFC that hasn't visited a dyno yet? because in that case I wouldn't worry... i drove like that for a couple months...
how untuned are we talking here? like just a SAFC that hasn't visited a dyno yet? because in that case I wouldn't worry... i drove like that for a couple months...
11-27-04, 11:54 AM
#11
check my sig out and see the mods I think its pretty damn untuned 
I shouldn't be smilling but hey so far so good just don't want to push my luck.
I had the autometer gauge and then switched to another gauge that matches all my other ones and it does the same thing as the autometer did. I just hope it is right when it pegs the ritch side at wot. I guess it is because (knock on wood) no detonation yet.
I shouldn't be smilling but hey so far so good just don't want to push my luck.
Originally Posted by wyt r1ce
yall must own the autometer lightshow/AF meter, they dont do anything but flash back and forth. ive only known one car ever to have a properly working autometer AF and he bought the car like that so i have no clue how it worked. most people sugest just to get a EGT guage insead.
11-27-04, 12:09 PM
#12
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Narrowband AFR gauges suck *****, that's the bottom line. Unless you are at WOT or going up a steep hill it will just bounce all over the place. Best idea to see what you're really doing is to find a very long steep hill and do some 3rd/4th gear WOT runs up it to see how you're doing. That'll give you the *best* reading you'll get out of the shitty narrowband gauge. Otherwise, get a wideband and know for sure what's going on, that'd be best. In fact if you get a wideband unit you can just tune it with that and your SAFC instead of going to the dyno, and you'll always know what your AFR's are.
11-27-04, 12:26 PM
#14
yeah I want a wideband but right now with christmas I'm saving pennies if you know what I mean. Also I live in louisiana I don't think there are any steep hills in the state I've done some 4th gear pulls on the interstate and it was ritch every time so I guess its better than lean. I'm going to have to bite the bullet one day and just get this ****** tuned or get a wideband.
wide band o2 sensor's die quick if exposed to alot of high heat for along time that is why you should place the sensor as far down the exhaust as possible if you have straight through exhaust or as far away from the turbo as possible if you do have cats. Also innovative makes heat sink bungs that alow the sensor less heat than if put into a regular bung.
I've done some 4th gear pulls on the interstate and it was ritch every time so I guess its better than lean. I'm going to have to bite the bullet one day and just get this ****** tuned or get a wideband.wide band o2 sensor's die quick if exposed to alot of high heat for along time that is why you should place the sensor as far down the exhaust as possible if you have straight through exhaust or as far away from the turbo as possible if you do have cats. Also innovative makes heat sink bungs that alow the sensor less heat than if put into a regular bung.
Last edited by hondahater; 11-27-04 at 12:29 PM.
11-27-04, 01:03 PM
#16
Originally Posted by hondahater
Thanks evilrotor I'll bookmark this thread and tell him the numbers you specified. So 13.5 at 3500rpm your talking about??? I'm using an safc so it only does it in increments of 1000 so I guess 13.5 for 3000rpm correct. Also what happend in your case with running to ritch?
Cracked a new housing...got welded and has been ok for 4 years now
11-27-04, 02:00 PM
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i got the egt im ready to switch for the a/f ratio, BUT i cant get the damn plug out of my downpipe! Any suggestions? liquid wrench? Its kinda rusty looking(not rusted but the threads need to be cleaned)
11-27-04, 11:35 PM
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Premix is your friend. It is a very helpful concept even when keeping the MOP, it just provides a little extra protection
Removing the MOP completely and fully premixing does allow the use of synthetic oil, though, so that can be a plus. Either way a little oil mixture can just give you some added protection.
Removing the MOP completely and fully premixing does allow the use of synthetic oil, though, so that can be a plus. Either way a little oil mixture can just give you some added protection.
11-27-04, 11:41 PM
#24
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Well, with no MOP people tend to use about 1 ounce per 1 gallon of gasoline. But while leaving the MOP in, now don't quote me on this it's mostly speculation as I can't remember exactly, but I think 1 ounce per every 2-4 gallons of gas should be good. Really you could technically premix the same as someone with no MOP but that'd just be a waste of premix oil. So I'd say 1 ounce per 2-4 gallons is plenty fine.