What Battery Are You Guys Running?
03-26-16, 07:50 AM
#26
MECP Certified Installer
I do know that as a matter of fact that Summit Racing was reporting a 20-25% defect rate with the Optima battery line just a few years ago. I have steered clear of the Optima batteries and personal prefer the AGM technology for light vehicle batteries. For deep cycle storage and where weight is not critical, its hard to beat the old wet cell lead plate design - just keep them topped off with distilled water. The EPA basically shut down the last smelter of virgin lead here in the US recently, so we shall see how the recycled lead stands up longevity wise in wet cell batteries.
03-26-16, 10:34 AM
#27
Engine, Not Motor
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Lead acid batteries have been one of the most recycled products for many, many, many years. Recycle rate is about 95%. So almost every battery produced has been recycled lead for a long time.
03-26-16, 11:11 AM
#28
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Yes, exactly. I would be surprised if there was a battery from any manufacturer you could buy that was made with "virgin" lead. The batteries are crushed and seperated into lead/plastic. The lead is recycled, the plastic is recycled and new batteries are made. That is why there's a core charge on batteries.
03-26-16, 11:28 AM
#29
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Had nothing but bad luck with optima batterys in the last decade. The first red top lasted 8 years but every one after has been lucky to get 2 years. Getting longer life out of Wal-Mart batteries these days.
03-26-16, 11:58 AM
#30
I must admit that I've tended to discount recent reports of Optima's QC decline because I had machined my battery hold down specifically to fit the Optima shape (like the round bottom corners) and no other brand drops in, so I have a more invested interest in the status quo.
Damn.
03-27-16, 08:54 AM
#32
MECP Certified Installer
03-27-16, 10:09 AM
#35
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All the brass at the local range is collected and sent to the scrap yard. Every few years when the backstop is cleaned out, the result also goes to the recycler. Not sure about the outdoor range. The brass is gathered. I'd assume the bullets are not recovered as we've never been asked to clean that end of the range up. 
03-27-16, 06:27 PM
#37
MECP Certified Installer
They recycle and reload the brass here as well. I know at the indoor range I frequent, they do sent the pile of backstop and whatever else to be recycled. I meant more in terms of US military bullets and outdoor ranges.
In the Army, when you go and get ammunition for training, you can't take it back. If after training you still have some left, they get sent down the barrel of your firearm.
Government waste? Absolutely. I find it ironic that a federal agency (which I knew this was coming since a few years ago) was/has shut down all lead smelting in the US, effectively cut off off lead supply for making bullets for another federal agency. You can make copper jacketed steel bullets but that is super illegal on the civilian market, not to mention expensive. The lead has to come from somewhere!
/small rant, sorry but I have to....
In the USA, we outsource and import SO much stuff that we can easily and readily make ourselves. Shoot, we are lucky to be a country that has practically every resource valuable to man just under our feet, but we dont use any of it. People say "oh, well american labor is too expensive!" and that is BS because a minimum wage worker today adjusted for inflation makes less than the same worker in 1968. If minimum wage today was adjusted to inflation everyone would make a minimum of $11 an hour. We COULD have a strong manufacturing base here in the US, but corporate greed always trumps that. At my job, everything I touch says "designed in USA! Made in China" and you can replace China for other countries for certain things. Every piece of plastic I touch has a warning "State of California considers this a carcinogen" because it has lead in it.
Man, I could go on and on...
I work in the automotive industry...
I am a lifelong resident of Texas and not a republican...
In the Army, when you go and get ammunition for training, you can't take it back. If after training you still have some left, they get sent down the barrel of your firearm.
Government waste? Absolutely. I find it ironic that a federal agency (which I knew this was coming since a few years ago) was/has shut down all lead smelting in the US, effectively cut off off lead supply for making bullets for another federal agency. You can make copper jacketed steel bullets but that is super illegal on the civilian market, not to mention expensive. The lead has to come from somewhere!
/small rant, sorry but I have to....
In the USA, we outsource and import SO much stuff that we can easily and readily make ourselves. Shoot, we are lucky to be a country that has practically every resource valuable to man just under our feet, but we dont use any of it. People say "oh, well american labor is too expensive!" and that is BS because a minimum wage worker today adjusted for inflation makes less than the same worker in 1968. If minimum wage today was adjusted to inflation everyone would make a minimum of $11 an hour. We COULD have a strong manufacturing base here in the US, but corporate greed always trumps that. At my job, everything I touch says "designed in USA! Made in China" and you can replace China for other countries for certain things. Every piece of plastic I touch has a warning "State of California considers this a carcinogen" because it has lead in it.
Man, I could go on and on...
I work in the automotive industry...
I am a lifelong resident of Texas and not a republican...
03-28-16, 08:56 AM
#38
That is correct for a traditional flat lead plate wet acid cell battery which represents >95% of the vehicle battery business. But the AGM type battery design typically requires a much higher grade of lead. They have been manufactured using virgin, not recycled lead.
04-02-16, 10:32 AM
#40
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It is a lot easier and cheaper to purify recycled lead than it is to mine and refine it. There is definitely a higher concentration of new lead in quality AGM batteries, but much of it is still recycled.Disclaimer: I buy a LOT of batteries and am on a first name basis with everyone at the local Deka distributor.
04-02-16, 11:01 AM
#41
Rotary Enthusiast
Speaking of Deka, I have their Intimidator deep cycle in a Z32 Non-Turbo 300ZX. Bought it in 2009 and it's still used in that car to this day. During the winter months, it gets hooked up to a Battery Tender.
I still have a pre-Johnson Controls Optima Red Top in the RX7, and while it never fails to crank the RX7, I think it's starting to finally show its age after more than 10 years (I think I got it in 2002-03 or maybe '04). Also maintained during the winter months on a Battery Tender.
Quality-wise, I don't think Optima is bad. I have a Yellow Top in my '01 CVT Insight that replaced the worn-out stock accessory battery. That was back in 2009 as well. It's 2016 and I'm more worried about the IMA battery (replaced in '12 and is still going with the help of a Grid Charger) than the Yellow Top.
I still have a pre-Johnson Controls Optima Red Top in the RX7, and while it never fails to crank the RX7, I think it's starting to finally show its age after more than 10 years (I think I got it in 2002-03 or maybe '04). Also maintained during the winter months on a Battery Tender.
Quality-wise, I don't think Optima is bad. I have a Yellow Top in my '01 CVT Insight that replaced the worn-out stock accessory battery. That was back in 2009 as well. It's 2016 and I'm more worried about the IMA battery (replaced in '12 and is still going with the help of a Grid Charger) than the Yellow Top.
Last edited by cluosborne; 04-02-16 at 11:06 AM.
04-02-16, 01:59 PM
#42
They recycle and reload the brass here as well. I know at the indoor range I frequent, they do sent the pile of backstop and whatever else to be recycled. I meant more in terms of US military bullets and outdoor ranges.
In the Army, when you go and get ammunition for training, you can't take it back. If after training you still have some left, they get sent down the barrel of your firearm.
Government waste? Absolutely. I find it ironic that a federal agency (which I knew this was coming since a few years ago) was/has shut down all lead smelting in the US, effectively cut off off lead supply for making bullets for another federal agency. You can make copper jacketed steel bullets but that is super illegal on the civilian market, not to mention expensive. The lead has to come from somewhere!
/small rant, sorry but I have to....
In the USA, we outsource and import SO much stuff that we can easily and readily make ourselves. Shoot, we are lucky to be a country that has practically every resource valuable to man just under our feet, but we dont use any of it. People say "oh, well american labor is too expensive!" and that is BS because a minimum wage worker today adjusted for inflation makes less than the same worker in 1968. If minimum wage today was adjusted to inflation everyone would make a minimum of $11 an hour. We COULD have a strong manufacturing base here in the US, but corporate greed always trumps that. At my job, everything I touch says "designed in USA! Made in China" and you can replace China for other countries for certain things. Every piece of plastic I touch has a warning "State of California considers this a carcinogen" because it has lead in it.
Man, I could go on and on...
I work in the automotive industry...
I am a lifelong resident of Texas and not a republican...
In the Army, when you go and get ammunition for training, you can't take it back. If after training you still have some left, they get sent down the barrel of your firearm.
Government waste? Absolutely. I find it ironic that a federal agency (which I knew this was coming since a few years ago) was/has shut down all lead smelting in the US, effectively cut off off lead supply for making bullets for another federal agency. You can make copper jacketed steel bullets but that is super illegal on the civilian market, not to mention expensive. The lead has to come from somewhere!
/small rant, sorry but I have to....
In the USA, we outsource and import SO much stuff that we can easily and readily make ourselves. Shoot, we are lucky to be a country that has practically every resource valuable to man just under our feet, but we dont use any of it. People say "oh, well american labor is too expensive!" and that is BS because a minimum wage worker today adjusted for inflation makes less than the same worker in 1968. If minimum wage today was adjusted to inflation everyone would make a minimum of $11 an hour. We COULD have a strong manufacturing base here in the US, but corporate greed always trumps that. At my job, everything I touch says "designed in USA! Made in China" and you can replace China for other countries for certain things. Every piece of plastic I touch has a warning "State of California considers this a carcinogen" because it has lead in it.
Man, I could go on and on...
I work in the automotive industry...
I am a lifelong resident of Texas and not a republican...
I am a reformed republican. I'm leaning toward anarchist as a political persuasion these days...
It's not all the evil businessman. It's the federal agency shutting down lead smelting, coal burning, oil drilling, local gov'ts banning fracking ("electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket"-Candidate Barack Obama, 2008), it's building regulations that limit home affordability (This Is Why You Can?t Afford a House - The Daily Beast), it's EPA regulations that now can control the water in the ditch on your property.
Evil business men THEN collude with the goobermint to erect barriers of entry from competitors, cut expenses at all costs by exporting factories (Carrier and it's parent earned over 35billion in the last 5 years, ,15 billion in the last 2yrs) etc etc. but still feel the need to move manufacturing plants to Mexico.
What's the answer?
There is none.
To the OP: 12V
Last edited by jackhild59; 04-02-16 at 02:13 PM.
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