View Poll Results: what apex seals do use?
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll
what apex seals do you use? Poll
other:
it depends on what motor i am building.
for long life i suggest OEM
for mild modded engines i suggest RA with OEM springs
for mild modded to heavy modded engines i suggest atkins
keep in mind that Atkins seal price does not include springs, add on another $60 to their seal prices for a complete package of seals/springs.
it depends on what motor i am building.
for long life i suggest OEM
for mild modded engines i suggest RA with OEM springs
for mild modded to heavy modded engines i suggest atkins
keep in mind that Atkins seal price does not include springs, add on another $60 to their seal prices for a complete package of seals/springs.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,116
Likes: 1
From: louisiana
hey wayne I"m pushing about 15 pounds on the stage III so It is becoming a freakin' beast but I just really want to port this motor and also make sure it's going to be ....... well more reliable than a 60k mile jspec you know. Ddub I think I'm going to go with either atkins or oem just because I'm going to be beating on this car quite a bit and would like some seals made for it. Karak are the springs included in the price for the mazda seals? I'm going to be putting these seals on a mildly modded engine so I guess atkins is the way to go. I guess the only seals then for long life and modded would be ceramic huh? Way to much for my blood, I am still an fc owner 
Well I'll put my sig in here so yall can see what I'll be running. One day if I become rich I will sell the bnr stage III and get a full turbo upgrade and haltek e6k but that isn't for a while so anyways here is the sig. Thanks guys for replying my compadres I trust 
:edit: thanks everyone for your replies and for voting, I think this can really help people out in their discision for what seals to get. Thanks again.
Well I'll put my sig in here so yall can see what I'll be running. One day if I become rich I will sell the bnr stage III and get a full turbo upgrade and haltek e6k but that isn't for a while so anyways here is the sig. Thanks guys for replying my compadres I trust :edit: thanks everyone for your replies and for voting, I think this can really help people out in their discision for what seals to get. Thanks again.
Last edited by hondahater; Jun 16, 2005 at 08:02 AM.
mazda pieces all of their parts together so my guess is that price is for seals only. as people have said though get a mazdacomp account and get a great deal on them.
ceramics are the best for all applications according to many high end engine builders but most people are not willing to throw $1500+ apex seals in their engine..
ceramics are the best for all applications according to many high end engine builders but most people are not willing to throw $1500+ apex seals in their engine..
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,116
Likes: 1
From: louisiana
Originally Posted by jhammons01
How did it help?? You got 44% mazda and 36% RA. Too close for anybody to lean in one direction or the other. I am still a hung jury of one.
well of course people are all going to have differant oppinions but from what I've seen and heard in this thread is that there are not that many people with modded turbo engines running on RA seals. They are running either atkins or mazda seals. If you are an n/a guy or a stock turbo guy then the RA seals will be fine. I'm sure they would be ok for higher than normal boost if you got the mazda springs but I thing most of the heavy tuners here do not go with RA.
If I had alot of cash I would get ceramics but your right 1500+ is too much to put into a rotary engine plus everything else. If I was a member of a race club I would join mazda speed but alas I am not a member of anything a)because ther is nothing down here and b) because my car isn't finnished
if anyone is a member a very nice guy and wants to order them for me and I'll through in 20 bucks for your efforts I would be very thankfull 
i am legendary
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,478
Likes: 1
From: Kirkland, WA
There are plenty of people out there running RA seals with modded turbo engines, they just don't run the RA springs. I still remember the article in RXTuner about the guy with his FD and a bunch of boost. He was beating the crap out of his car one morning (using RA seals) when one "blew." He was frustrated, got it home, said oh well. Next day he went to try and start it and guess what? It was no longer blown. RA seals seem to bend rather than break, and after a while will reposition themselves. This is the rumor about them.
Also, atkins seals are SOFTER than OEM seals. Look up Wankel7's thread about his atkins seals shattering in his engine. This of course could have been due to a LOT of things like detonation, unbeveled exhaust port, running lean for prolonged periods, etc. I believe he is not going to be using RA seals with OEM springs, just another .02 on the subject.
I am not bad mouthing atkins at all, they make great stuff and are a great asset to the community. I am just giving the other side of the argument. Take it for what you want, but there are modded turbos running RA seals.
Also, atkins seals are SOFTER than OEM seals. Look up Wankel7's thread about his atkins seals shattering in his engine. This of course could have been due to a LOT of things like detonation, unbeveled exhaust port, running lean for prolonged periods, etc. I believe he is not going to be using RA seals with OEM springs, just another .02 on the subject.
I am not bad mouthing atkins at all, they make great stuff and are a great asset to the community. I am just giving the other side of the argument. Take it for what you want, but there are modded turbos running RA seals.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,116
Likes: 1
From: louisiana
so make sure and bevel your ports then huh? Ok I'll make sure we do that. So hum......I guess it's all up to the person what apex seals to get. There is none that stand out and say "I'm better than the rest" 
ok well ****! I'm at a stand still until I see some soft of data for either of them. All I know is what the puerto ricans are telling me. These guys build crazy drag cars and they are saying RA is unreliable. I've seen pictures of what these guys do and they are freakin' unbelievable, so I would emagine they know what they are talking about.
ok well ****! I'm at a stand still until I see some soft of data for either of them. All I know is what the puerto ricans are telling me. These guys build crazy drag cars and they are saying RA is unreliable. I've seen pictures of what these guys do and they are freakin' unbelievable, so I would emagine they know what they are talking about.
Full Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 147
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From: da souf
Originally Posted by elfking
I know a couple friends who are using the RA seals in their Turbo II's and they are happy with it... pushing quite a bit of power... I just have seen pictures of RA seals destroying housings if a mistake happens and the seal decides to give out. Being stronger they stand a better chance of screwing up the housings when they let go.
I have heard good things about akins seals seating down quicker (Ie higher compression numbers on fewer miles) but I have also heard stories of them letting go pre-maturely for one reason or another. Its so hard to decide if it was the seals fault or the person driving the car. (example: One guy ran 87 oct (CA GAS) and 15psi on akins seals and blew it out....I blame the user in that case... )
The only time I have heard of Mazda seals giving out have been either after 100k miles +lots of boost on a rebuild or someone making the mistake of advancing the timing for 'power' thinking he knew what he was doing. I have 125k on my Turbo II, and my GTU had 170k on stock seals. Previous owner blew a coolant seal and drove it around too long. It lost compression in one rotor when I had it but when I took it apart it was the seals were rusted into the rotors from the coolant leak + sitting since 03 not running. (Just swapped in a new/used S5 motor with 40-50k mazda reman miles on it) I couldn't pass up the deal.
If I had the extra cash, I would go with Mazda seals... if I was a bit tight, I would go with akins... but I dont like the idea of the RA seals.... and definately not their corners springs.. there were thread and threads on problems with those and not being heat treated...
I don't know.. thats just my personal thoughts..
I have heard good things about akins seals seating down quicker (Ie higher compression numbers on fewer miles) but I have also heard stories of them letting go pre-maturely for one reason or another. Its so hard to decide if it was the seals fault or the person driving the car. (example: One guy ran 87 oct (CA GAS) and 15psi on akins seals and blew it out....I blame the user in that case... )
The only time I have heard of Mazda seals giving out have been either after 100k miles +lots of boost on a rebuild or someone making the mistake of advancing the timing for 'power' thinking he knew what he was doing. I have 125k on my Turbo II, and my GTU had 170k on stock seals. Previous owner blew a coolant seal and drove it around too long. It lost compression in one rotor when I had it but when I took it apart it was the seals were rusted into the rotors from the coolant leak + sitting since 03 not running. (Just swapped in a new/used S5 motor with 40-50k mazda reman miles on it) I couldn't pass up the deal.
If I had the extra cash, I would go with Mazda seals... if I was a bit tight, I would go with akins... but I dont like the idea of the RA seals.... and definately not their corners springs.. there were thread and threads on problems with those and not being heat treated...
I don't know.. thats just my personal thoughts..
Full Member
Joined: May 2005
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From: da souf
Originally Posted by hondahater
I know I shouldn't go with the r/a springs but the seals are what I'm mostly worried about.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,116
Likes: 1
From: louisiana
Well I've been talking to sonicrat and he seems to think the RA seals are fine for what I'm going to be pushing so I guess I'll go with the RA seals. Wish me luck
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