See what I mean people !!!Now hes doing it on here. I sold ya the motor and I have no way to know what you did to it it dont run you are screwed. Thats why I just contacted the missouri consumer protection agency to let them know about what was done to me too. This guy does not seem to understand what this forum is about . People helping other people with their problems and tring in everyway to help them . not rag on them for their questions.
As far as I can say we all tried to get this motor to start !!! We all know how tempermental these cars can be . I know for a fact they are. I myself have changed it froman auto to a 5speed all new struts 4 piston calipers brand new new rotors header cat for here in Md were we have emissions new gauge faceplate new injectors all new silicon vacume lines and black magic elec fan . Radiator K&N air filter kit my car is a very nice clean no rust michigan car believe it or not no rust and will get its original motor put back in it rebuilt . Maybe not anytime soon because of weather and money but she will be back on the road. And I will not deal with anyone who will not in writing refund money for bad items.
As you can tell by the remarks above no matter what is said or done this guy has a million excuses.

Ummmm... thanks Kevin. The posts were gone due to a crash/restore from backup... but I appreciate your vote of confidence. :rolleyes:

Brad

Lloyd,
He's not giving you excuses, he is telling you a simple business formula.
He sent the motor out without a warranty, express or implied.
That means you bought it "AS IS". Those are extremely important words under the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code).
Tom is giving you your arguments back. He is saying he sent it out in ok condition. You say after a month, you installed it and it was no good. He is simply saying that it broke while in your possession due to something you did. A very valid argument. As you would be the plaintiff, you would have to prove your case, if there was a case. That means you would have to take the motor apart and prove it was sent in bad condition. Then you still have to get over the argument that you bought the motor "AS IS". That very defense on Tom's part will shut you down immediately. You'll never even get to the merit of your case due to this argument.

Besides, traveling to Missouri several times to have the case filed, heard, put off for continuances and then bringing your witnesses in will cost more than the motor is worth. Even if you use the old argument "its the principle of the thing", the economics are all turned around on this one. You have got to look at this objectively.

Further, if you make allegations that are found not to be true, you open yourself up for malicious prosecution in the worst case, if not slander/libel charges...The reason for this is that many people have told you that your theory on this motor may not be correct. Be careful how, to whom and about what you speak. Reputation is a protected matter in this country.

OK, that's all the free advice I'm giving on this one! Take it or leave it.
RW

Well thank you for all that. Makes sence to me I just wish I had the email he sent that stated it But since then I have formated my pc and lost all of it . I thought I printed it all out but didnt because I have been looking for it. I guess it will be taken apart and sold on ebay. Glad I have a basement to do that in at least. Mine is getting rebuilt .

I wasnt so much talking about you as the others. IN fact I wasnt aware you still did much of any moderating in here for a while..havent seen you post/reply/move/close anything in forever.

You have to admit, that a lot of dumb shit goes on in here unmoderated, and a lot of borderline/ok stuff gets snipped or deleted, case in point Ted's last post about a FC meet. NOw I know, I know, you all dont get paid to do this and you cant be everywhere, blah blah, but I think there should be a little bit of a flatline standard, as opposed to whose ever opinion reigns at the moment, which is what it often seems to be.

I mean, I can often come into this section and find no less than 5 seperate topics, posted by the same user the same day, on the front page. ONe might say "help I blew my engine" and another might say "how to get 400 reliable rwhp from my NA", and both were posted in succession.

Sorry you took offense Brad, but like I said I wasnt still aware you did much moderating these days. Its mainly the fact that I have not agreed with the opinions of some of the other moderators in here and elsewhere...

Hummm... I've bought several parts from Tom; although, nothing like a motor. He's one of the most honest and considerate people I've yet to meet. It will take a whole lot of doing, to believe he would/could intentionally sell anything worthless. That said, I certainly feel for anyone who's in your predicament. Hope it'll workout in the end

its a crappy situation, no doubt about that. think of this with a little more intelligence though; the motor has no warranty, you can't return it if it's bad. moreover it's not a new part, it's used and 14 years used at that. i'm not trying to sound un-sympathetic, I'd be very discouraged and upset if it happened to me. I don't know the seller but a bunch of people on the forums seem to and I highly highly doubt that he would knowingly sell you a bad motor bc of the exact shit-storm thats playing out in this thread. part the motor out online somehow, keep it as a spare, use some of it's parts on your current rebuild. There must be some way to make your money back. hell, sell it "as is" to someone who just wants a platform for a rebuild. hope it all works out for you, we all know that playin around w/ these cars is never as easy as it should be

buying used parts is a lottery. you got the bad end of the stick, get over it. If you want something reliable you get a rebuilt one with warranty.

I know it is and after going to the web page for rotoryreserrection I see I could have gotten one for 1000.00 with a warrenty. And damn I would have drove there to get a discount too.
I just will never do a deal unless I have a paper signed from the seller again not just his or her word.

RX7BEAR I'm sorry you are having difficulties... Kevin ISN'T that far, and could have done both a rebuild AND install for you... or probably either. He's inexpensive (NOT the same as cheap- cheap implies shoddy work!) and has a good reputation. Perhaps you should talk to him.

Brad

Yes he is a very nice person from what I've read . Thanks

Exactly. RX7BEAR: First off, if you're using paypal you have to be weary of what you're buying. I'm not saying Tom isn't trustworthy, but if he can't even accept credit cards that has to tell you something. Use your head. You're telling us it rained for a month and a half straight? Even if it did, when doing something yourself, you have to plan on the unexpected. If you can't afford to get someone else to put it in and you can't do it yourself, take the bus and save up some money. Looks like you learned a lesson--You get what you pay for. I recently purchased a $75 used radiator from Eur-Asian in Colorado for my TII after my old one blew, and I nearly got screwed over. (By the way, a horrible place to do business with). Another thing, RX7BEAR, is that you should learn to deal with things in a more civilized manner. Calling people names on a forum won't do anything. Get that free plane ride you claimed, and go settle it with Tom right now. I really do feel for you, but wise up man, you put yourself in this spot.

Bad juju here. Let me say that I have personally dealt with Tom L. over many parts. EVERY single one was recieved as advertised. He is as honest as they come. I think theres a big mis-understanding going on here. I know for a fact that Tom would not send you junk, hes always been a stand up guy in all my dealings with him. Maybe it got damaged in shipping? Maybe you accidentally damaged it somehow without realizing it? But like everyone said, this is just like buying from a pick and pull. You want rock bottom prices, thats the way to go, but dont bitch now that your having a problem, and certainly dont slander someone when you have not one shred of proof that he decieved you or did anything unethical. You tried to cheap out, you got bit, it happens, thats life, deal with it. YOU put yourself in this spot is right. Sorry, we've all been there. You want a good motor with a guarantee and return policy?, go pay $1000-$3000 for a rebuild. AS IS means AS IS. Live and learn.

Rx7 Bear...I feel for you as I have been in the same position in the past..Since you did not get any written agreement to the condition of the motor, you are SOL...

Here is my suggestions for the future...:

"1 I turned the motor over by hand before it was shipped, 3 very strong "whooshes" from each rotor."

This was a quote from the seller...I would like to see where on my compression gauge the 'whoosh' range is?...Next time get the motor compression tested even if It means hooking up a starter and battery...That is the best way to tell if it is good or not...

Get everything in writing and get his DL number, address, and see a picture ID...Then if he is not for real, he will back out, or you have the channels to go after him if he screws you...

Lucky you only ended up 600 bones in the hole..I have a buddy who is down $4000 from Mazdaracing.com....

Just my .02...Talk to Kevin to see if he can help you out with it...He is top notch...

Most of these posts have been a rehash of what was said earlier. What most fail to realize though is that unless you pay with a credit card, you cannot do a charge-back. And even if you do a chargeback, you have to be able to clearly and concisely state why you want your money back to the credit card company.
Further, to say that if you get a ton of information and you have been truly injured, you will have an avenue of redress is plain naive.
Generally, its called a right without a remedy. YOu may have the right to get your money back, but how will you do that? Make endless trips out of state to file a lawsuit? Live with continuances? Have the defendant remove the case to district court if its in small claims court? Hire an attorney with a retainer of $2000 win or loose?
Its a crap shoot. But with Tom, you know that he is honest. NOw, go read the threads about a guy named RSOkinawa. Now there is a genuine bad guy! You do business with him and its virtually guaranteed something will go wrong.
RW

thanks for all the advise and info on this matter everyone. Yes I got burned and that is my judgement on it. He may not think he did it but it is his word against mine. I have learned a lesson and will not let it happen again. It is nice to see so many people looking at this and putting in their remarks. Some people would not like what they read but I take it in stride and love knowledge. And this is what this is to me all of it.
As for going out to Toms or the airport it to me is not worth the time I have been offered money for this motor and or parts off it so I will make my money back on it and be able to use parts off it I dont sell.

Hah, I went through the same damn thing, bought a series5 turboII engine, and SPECIFICALLY asked if it had series 5 turbo/etc on it, and the asshat sends me a series 5 block, with series 4 manifolds, turbo, injectors! And guess what? It was dead! No compression what-so-ever on the front rotor, take it apart and everyone of the side seals is toasted, not to mention bad oil rings! Then, I also bought a series 5 ECU from him, and he sends me a series 4! And he still has never sent me the clutch fan I also bought! Talk about a shitty deal, but what can be done? You probably got screwed, but there's nothing that we can do about it, except give Mr.Landers some buisness, cuz he's one of the last people worth trusting on this damned internet.

Oh come on.... I am not taking any sides here, and I don't know this story, nor do I know either of the parties involved, but what the hell kind of test is that???
I have an engine with 90/20/20 compression, and I get "3 distict and strong whooshes"
I tested an engine with 0/0/0 comp. and it had "3 distinct whooshes"
I'm not implying that the seller doesn't know rotaries (or am I?) but he's got to know that that sort of test holds next to no bearing on the actual compression of the engine once the combustion chamber is sealed with a spark plug!!

And to the buyer- if this was the seller told you this before you bought the engine, and implied that it represented a healthy engine, that should have raised a big red flag in your head... why not an actual comp. test? Hmmm... wonder why......
Granted, it's difficult with a bare block that's not hooked up to a starter, but you can still crank an engine quickly enough with a socket on the main pulley... and with a comp. tester, you may not be able to get exact comp. numbers, but you can get an idea if the comp is good, bad, or very uneven.

Did you try unflooding the engine, or unsticking any seals with ATF and kerosene??

IT's a funny thing then, that I use this test daily to check core motors and parts cars for engine health, then later the gauge always reaffirms what I already knew...:rolleyes:

I would have to say that you dont know what youre talking about then. An engine with NO compression on a whole rotor will NOT produce any whooshes, or move any air out of the plug hole. By definition, no compression = no moved air. As far as whooshes, the moderately experienced ear can discern a loud whoosh (moving air through the plughole) from the deep, echoing, "thug" that occurs when spinning a rotor around with no compression. Compression whistles, no compression makes kathunk sounds or none at all.

Now we're getting somewhere. IF the engine was being sold as is, the buyer could have asked any questions or asked that any specific test be performed before purchase. Evidently he didnt.

IN general it DOES, and if you surveyed all the members of this forum I would say about 90% would agree(independent of this thread). GO read the "no compression/blown engine" threads...the first thing people say is to pull both plugs and listen for strong whooshes. You're saying everybody else is wrong and you're right??:confused:

Nothing personal, but that's bullshit. :bsflag:

You can NOT turn the engine fast enough by hand to get any kind of accurate reading on a gauge. This from someone who tests engines DAILY both inside and out of the car both by ear and with a gauge. You can crank it over to listen for whooshes but youll never register an even semi-accurate number on the gauge. Compression *numbers* are HIGHLY dependent on cranking sped....read the FSM section on the subject if you dont believe that. If cranking speed were not important as you say, the FSM would not include a graph of cranking speed and compression numbers to correct by...

You can, however, check an engine ouyt of the car with a tranny, flywheel, starter, battery, and the throttle held open. This will yeild a pretty accurate number, as long as both plugs are out at once.

I just pulled my old engine apart God the rear rotor housing is shot !!! Its got a big gouge in it from the 2 apex seals that went. And the rotor its self is bad too got a chip out of it were the apex seal is and gouges all over it. plus all the seals were cracked in half . Looks like I will have to find a rotor and rear housing before I even think about rebuilding this motor.

As for th eone in my car now that I cant get to start. I have one last thing Im going to try but just dont feel like tearing off the top end again . But I will we are supose to get some nicerweather here so Im gonna get to work on it . Will let ya all know what comes out of it.

Weak/cracked/stuck apex seals can produce air movement but as soon as there is sealed combustion chamber, the weak seal cannot conpress the air.
I would invite you to listen to my engine cranking over with one spark plug removed, my rear rotor is 90/40/40.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO difference in tone or anything between the three pulses/whooshes exiting through the plug hole.
If you thread a plug in just a half turn or so, so it's 90% sealing the chamber, THEN you can hear a difference in the tiny bit of air coming out around the plug, since it requires much more compression to force the air out.
Please don't say I don't know what I'm talking about, I've checked a lot of engines.

Also, of course compression numbers depend on cranking speed... I actually have a graph that gives the exact compression desired depending on cranking RPM, but you can still get an IDEA as to what the compression is like. Maybe not on a 90/90/85 motor, but definatly on a 90/0/0 one. That's what I'm getting at.
Relax.

Okay guys I had a very nice day to work on this motor again. I took off the intake and header.I sprayed all 6 apex seals with B12 Chemtool and Dumped a full bottle of MMO in here through the intake ports. Making sure I rotated the motor some for each rotor face. Now Im gonna let it sit as long as I can like a week to break that shit loose and hope it will give me some kinda compression on this motor. I will go out each day and turn her over by hand so all the oil in it will get circulated .
Im still sure that this motor is no good but I will give it one more try .

I'd be willing to be it's not apex seals. Probably carbon scored the housing (this causes many non turbo engien deahts) Or when you installed it you dropped something in the engine :P

LOL no nothing dropped in it

okay every one day three turned engine over by hand to get oil on all internal parts .