VIDEO - Still crappy idle, no response to idle adjustment??
06-28-07, 09:05 AM
#176
Scrip,
That sounds great, I'll check coolant flow as you described first thing Saturday morning....
My only minor complaint is that now when I start it I just barely have to tap the gas like once or twice to keep it from stalling when cold, after like a minute of me keeping it alive it idles at 1200 or so until it heats all the way up and then drops to 750....what could be causing the initial stalling condition. Other than that it is 100% better than it was before all of this.
I haven't heard of that Global Vicinity but ti sounds like it will have at least one kick *** write up, good luck with that, I'll have to check that site out.
That sounds great, I'll check coolant flow as you described first thing Saturday morning....
My only minor complaint is that now when I start it I just barely have to tap the gas like once or twice to keep it from stalling when cold, after like a minute of me keeping it alive it idles at 1200 or so until it heats all the way up and then drops to 750....what could be causing the initial stalling condition. Other than that it is 100% better than it was before all of this.
I haven't heard of that Global Vicinity but ti sounds like it will have at least one kick *** write up, good luck with that, I'll have to check that site out.
06-28-07, 09:37 AM
#177
It could be one of a few things. 1200 rpm, in my opinion, is too slow for cold fast idle. Mine runs at about 1850 on initial startup, and comes down to about 1500 after a minute of running, then after about 7 mins of driving it's at 750. You may just need to bump up the rpm with the fast idle speed screw (not the t-wax plunger screw or BAC, but the one that's accessible when you open the throttle all the way). I notice you're using bigger primary injectors than stock, so there might be a bit of Rtek tuning necessary if it's too rich when cold. You could determine if it's slightly too rich by creating a small vacuum leak.....if you removed any emissions items then you probably capped off a vacuum port or two. Remove one of the small caps on the manifold and then see how it affects your cold idle. You can play around with fuel mixture and speed settings until you get an idea of what is needed to dial it all in. Remember: the stock setup included the Accelerated Warmup System, with a 3000-ish rpm idle, and without it, we sometimes need to bump cold idle rpms a bit to compensate. Here's the fast idle speed screw, the one pointing straight up with throttle held wide open:
Last edited by scrip7; 06-28-07 at 09:43 AM.
06-28-07, 10:17 PM
#178
You may just need to bump up the rpm with the fast idle speed screw (not the t-wax plunger screw or BAC, but the one that's accessible when you open the throttle all the way). I notice you're using bigger primary injectors than stock, so there might be a bit of Rtek tuning necessary if it's too rich when cold. You could determine if it's slightly too rich by creating a small vacuum leak.....if you removed any emissions items then you probably capped off a vacuum port or two. Remove one of the small caps on the manifold and then see how it affects your cold idle. You can play around with fuel mixture and speed settings until you get an idea of what is needed to dial it all in. Remember: the stock setup included the Accelerated Warmup System, with a 3000-ish rpm idle, and without it, we sometimes need to bump cold idle rpms a bit to compensate. Here's the fast idle speed screw, the one pointing straight up with throttle held wide open:
I need to order my a/f monitor kit, like bad....i'll see about that stuff as well....
thansk so much for the advice man....have great night..
06-29-07, 01:00 AM
#180
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i have the same problem currently. all i know how to do is make sure the timing is right and turned the idle screw a little bit. it seemed to help, idling at 800 steady but i don't think it should be at 800 but its not like its that big of a deal.
06-29-07, 08:57 AM
#181
I'm confident that by simply adjusting the fast idle a little higher initially it will even things out as the car warms up, it makes sense I mean the idle is just a little too low right now.
I'll adjust the fast idle screw(not the t-wax plunger screw) so it's at about 1800 initially, then so it gradually settles to the 750, I actually think this will give me a better overall idle as it warms as well, as I had the BAC all the way to the right to (mistakenly)try and lower the initial fast idle speed.
If I just let it idle higher initially then come down, I'll have more lee way for adjustment later once it's fully hot. See I wasn't fully understanding that the fast idle speed can be set separately from the hot idle. I was a little confused but with this new info I believe will have this done.
I'm thinking back to when I first got the car and there were all of these things crossed out in the Haynes manual next to "Engine will not return to idle. or maintains high idle speed at normal operating temperature" and it did have a high idle, and then the surging had started after I drove it for a while. I'm willing to to bet that when they installed the new engine they never had the idle correctly adjusted and I inherited the problem. Well it would seem as though we almost there fellas.
My timing will certainly be checked, can't hurt, now that it's below 1000rpms.
I'll adjust the fast idle screw(not the t-wax plunger screw) so it's at about 1800 initially, then so it gradually settles to the 750, I actually think this will give me a better overall idle as it warms as well, as I had the BAC all the way to the right to (mistakenly)try and lower the initial fast idle speed.
If I just let it idle higher initially then come down, I'll have more lee way for adjustment later once it's fully hot. See I wasn't fully understanding that the fast idle speed can be set separately from the hot idle. I was a little confused but with this new info I believe will have this done.
I'm thinking back to when I first got the car and there were all of these things crossed out in the Haynes manual next to "Engine will not return to idle. or maintains high idle speed at normal operating temperature" and it did have a high idle, and then the surging had started after I drove it for a while. I'm willing to to bet that when they installed the new engine they never had the idle correctly adjusted and I inherited the problem. Well it would seem as though we almost there fellas.
My timing will certainly be checked, can't hurt, now that it's below 1000rpms.
06-30-07, 07:26 AM
#182
Sounds great GreenBudd. And yes, we all bombarded you with lots of info and pics for you to dissect, so anyone could get confused, right?
The fast idle speed screw is not often discussed, sort of a "mystery screw" (man....that sounded like a one-night-stand, didn't it?) haha.
There is a method to the madness when it comes to high idle speed diagnosis, and if people could see it in their minds to first check that the idle lever is touching the stop screw (with the locknut), then they might not be on such a wild goose chase guessing at the cause. Would you agree? then they could proceed to checking for vacuum leaks, tight throttle cables, dashpots, etc.
The fast idle speed screw is not often discussed, sort of a "mystery screw" (man....that sounded like a one-night-stand, didn't it?) haha.
There is a method to the madness when it comes to high idle speed diagnosis, and if people could see it in their minds to first check that the idle lever is touching the stop screw (with the locknut), then they might not be on such a wild goose chase guessing at the cause. Would you agree? then they could proceed to checking for vacuum leaks, tight throttle cables, dashpots, etc.
06-30-07, 08:23 AM
#183
I would agree, It's a system that I think most people are oblivious to, but one that plays a major role in the operation of the engine.
I'm off to the bank to cash a paycheck( thank goodness), and then I'll have some time to play with the 7, I'll post up and let you know about coolant flow and tweaking the fast idle.
I'm off to the bank to cash a paycheck( thank goodness), and then I'll have some time to play with the 7, I'll post up and let you know about coolant flow and tweaking the fast idle.
06-30-07, 05:47 PM
#184
ok so i removed the UIM again to look for another vac leak i heard, also wanted to check the coolant line to the t-wax.
Found a loose vac line and replaced it with a snug new section:
And then the coolant feed line that goes to the t-wax seems to be kinking when everything is installed, it's not the stock line, i replaced an old shriveled line that was here before, but i guess my line doesn't quite bend enough without collapsing, it's the one with the yellow wire nut in the end:
And my UIM seems to be peeling on the inside, this can't be good:
So I think i need a new t-wax feed line and maybe buy a new UIM in good shape without the flaking on the inside, wtf is up w/ that anyways??
I dunno i really don't like the UIM's apparent condition.....
Found a loose vac line and replaced it with a snug new section:
And then the coolant feed line that goes to the t-wax seems to be kinking when everything is installed, it's not the stock line, i replaced an old shriveled line that was here before, but i guess my line doesn't quite bend enough without collapsing, it's the one with the yellow wire nut in the end:
And my UIM seems to be peeling on the inside, this can't be good:
So I think i need a new t-wax feed line and maybe buy a new UIM in good shape without the flaking on the inside, wtf is up w/ that anyways??
I dunno i really don't like the UIM's apparent condition.....
06-30-07, 08:07 PM
#185
Most of the time when I take off UIMs, the primary ports are cleaner-looking than the secondaries. Your secondary ports appear to have more of a carbon buildup than a flaking of the aluminum. I wouldn't yet discard it, unless you have another clean one lying around. If your manifold were at my shop, I would soak it in a vat of Berryman B9 Chemtool (carb overhaul solvent) for a couple days and then use a ball-type brake cylinder hone to clean up the ports even further. Do you know anyone with a carb shop that has a vat in your area?
07-01-07, 02:46 AM
#186
yeah it looks more like a shiny metal than carbon to me, I could be wrong but the stuff flaking off clearly has a shine to it, and the metal underneath appears to be rusting?? It looks like it was plated or something and now flaking off, good news is that it pretty much lost all of the flakes when it out was out of the car and I blew compressed air into the manifold.
I also wanted to see if the coolant passage fir the t-wax was clear, so I blew some air through that and it seems to be flowing nice and freely, so I think the coolant is just getting impeded by the kink in the hose, I'll try shortening the one side of it to lower it closer to the irons, maybe it will kink less then or i would love to buy a new formed hose or a good used one from any forum member....
On a different note, I am glad to report that I have officially started construction of our new 4 bay garage at our house here. Me and my father will be building it but we just marked out the lines for the foundation and will be building it as quick as we can with working on it on weekends.
I am so looking forward to having garage to keep the car in, she's been living outside for two years so far and i feel so bad for her. It's sop hard to keep anything in good shape when it's just left to the elements and sits on dirt.....
I also wanted to see if the coolant passage fir the t-wax was clear, so I blew some air through that and it seems to be flowing nice and freely, so I think the coolant is just getting impeded by the kink in the hose, I'll try shortening the one side of it to lower it closer to the irons, maybe it will kink less then or i would love to buy a new formed hose or a good used one from any forum member....
On a different note, I am glad to report that I have officially started construction of our new 4 bay garage at our house here. Me and my father will be building it but we just marked out the lines for the foundation and will be building it as quick as we can with working on it on weekends.
I am so looking forward to having garage to keep the car in, she's been living outside for two years so far and i feel so bad for her. It's sop hard to keep anything in good shape when it's just left to the elements and sits on dirt.....
07-01-07, 08:29 AM
#187
You can get the factory pre-formed hose from Mazdatrix for $5.68
Here's a link to the page.....it's part# 13-6810-N318
http://www.mazdatrix.com/bhose2.htm
Most aftermarket hose such as fuel line etc. don't last very long at the rear iron port. There is a lot of intense heat at that location, including heat from the turbo, so it's really a good idea to use OEM there.
Here's a link to the page.....it's part# 13-6810-N318
http://www.mazdatrix.com/bhose2.htm
Most aftermarket hose such as fuel line etc. don't last very long at the rear iron port. There is a lot of intense heat at that location, including heat from the turbo, so it's really a good idea to use OEM there.
Last edited by scrip7; 07-01-07 at 08:37 AM.
07-01-07, 09:00 AM
#188
I swear to god that wasn't there last night, maybe I was really that tired??
While Mazdatrix can be expensive, they have been instrumental in sourcing these hard to find OEM parts, I got my competition diff mounts from them a while back....
So since I'm ordering that little guy already can you think of anything else i should get from M-trix right now? Any other hoses that are very prone to breaking or little mystery parts that i should know about and snag now?? I just sold my Tein S. Techs and i know where the money is going....to these repairs.
While Mazdatrix can be expensive, they have been instrumental in sourcing these hard to find OEM parts, I got my competition diff mounts from them a while back....
So since I'm ordering that little guy already can you think of anything else i should get from M-trix right now? Any other hoses that are very prone to breaking or little mystery parts that i should know about and snag now?? I just sold my Tein S. Techs and i know where the money is going....to these repairs.
07-01-07, 11:30 AM
#189
New Parts I will order tonight:
$6 - T-wax hose from Mazdatrix
$48 - Oil Meter Injector Vacuum Spider from Mazdatrix
$73 - Dual Alternator Belt Pulley(stock diameter) and Block Off Plates for emissions removal eventually from Banzaitoyota
I'm still looking for a sweet pair of UIM and LIM, either polished or sandblasted to look new.
I'm definitely going to get the T-wax hose as soon as possible, the vac spider will probably be ordered at the same time, the current spider seems very brittle and the main connection of it seems loose.
The dual belt pulley and block off plates are for install once the initial idle condition has been addressed. I'm getting really sick of seeing those rusted lines all over the place and the crowded conditions in the engine bay, i'd really like to remove all the emissions stuff for simplicity, but at the same time i can't wait to take the whole motor and trans out and repaint the engine bay and redo everything, so its just a matter of time and money is all.
What do you guys think?
$6 - T-wax hose from Mazdatrix
$48 - Oil Meter Injector Vacuum Spider from Mazdatrix
$73 - Dual Alternator Belt Pulley(stock diameter) and Block Off Plates for emissions removal eventually from Banzaitoyota
I'm still looking for a sweet pair of UIM and LIM, either polished or sandblasted to look new.
I'm definitely going to get the T-wax hose as soon as possible, the vac spider will probably be ordered at the same time, the current spider seems very brittle and the main connection of it seems loose.
The dual belt pulley and block off plates are for install once the initial idle condition has been addressed. I'm getting really sick of seeing those rusted lines all over the place and the crowded conditions in the engine bay, i'd really like to remove all the emissions stuff for simplicity, but at the same time i can't wait to take the whole motor and trans out and repaint the engine bay and redo everything, so its just a matter of time and money is all.
What do you guys think?
07-01-07, 12:51 PM
#190
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You know what I've decided after reading this thread and so may others like it? No one knows wtf they are talking about. 10 so called experts give 10 completely different fixes, and call the other ones BS. Dont get me wrong. As I've said in a few other posts I have two left thumbs when it comes to cars. But seriously. IMHO unless you can get it to shop (not someone's back yard) and leave it to have it gone through (which Im trying to find someone to do) all else is a waste of time.
YMMV of course.
YMMV of course.
07-01-07, 03:04 PM
#191
You know what I've decided after reading this thread and so may others like it? No one knows wtf they are talking about. 10 so called experts give 10 completely different fixes, and call the other ones BS. Dont get me wrong. As I've said in a few other posts I have two left thumbs when it comes to cars. But seriously. IMHO unless you can get it to shop (not someone's back yard) and leave it to have it gone through (which Im trying to find someone to do) all else is a waste of time.
YMMV of course.
YMMV of course.
And for the most part, there were two guys helping me out here, not 10, and they pretty much agreed and both helped a great deal with this idle issue.
I guess you missed the videos, all the posts and updates that demonstrated how my idle went from crazy surging to a even idle at 750-800....
I think you may be illustrating the fact that you have two left thumbs when it comes to more than cars if you can't see the progress made here due to a collaborative and effective effort.
But in all honesty, for the sake of the 7, if you really have no clue what your doing, you'd be better off paying someone else. Thats just not the case here.
On a different note I just ordered the t-wax hose, the vacuum spider and the double pulley/block off kit.
I'm waiting on conformation of a sale to me off perfect condition powder coated UIM, LIM and TB.
I think I will get everything together w/ emissions still intact and possibly even add a cat to legally pass smog then just remove all emissions when i overhaul the whole engine bay.
07-01-07, 06:06 PM
#192
Sounds like a great plan there GreenBudd.
Oh and Blackangst, I am one of the main guys that helped Greenbudd with his problem. I'm not sure how many years experience you have fixing cars, but I have been working on them for a living day in and day out since 1976, and rotary-engined cars since 1982. It's easy to overlook the fact that we are trying to help people without having their car in front of us, by "proxy" so to speak. This isn't a car repair shop. It's an online forum. And until you get to know each of us well enough to pass judgement, I recommend you go find a place for your "two left thumbs". Oh and should you need any help with that, I have some suggestions.
Oh and Blackangst, I am one of the main guys that helped Greenbudd with his problem. I'm not sure how many years experience you have fixing cars, but I have been working on them for a living day in and day out since 1976, and rotary-engined cars since 1982. It's easy to overlook the fact that we are trying to help people without having their car in front of us, by "proxy" so to speak. This isn't a car repair shop. It's an online forum. And until you get to know each of us well enough to pass judgement, I recommend you go find a place for your "two left thumbs". Oh and should you need any help with that, I have some suggestions.
07-01-07, 11:02 PM
#193
You know what I've decided after reading this thread and so may others like it?" No one knows wtf they are talking about."
"I have two left thumbs when it comes to cars."
" But seriously. IMHO unless you can get it to shop (not someone's back yard) and leave it to have it gone through (which Im trying to find someone to do) all else is a waste of time."
YMMV of course.
"I have two left thumbs when it comes to cars."
" But seriously. IMHO unless you can get it to shop (not someone's back yard) and leave it to have it gone through (which Im trying to find someone to do) all else is a waste of time."
YMMV of course.
(1) You contradicted yourself when you openly admitted that when it comes to cars, you're a complete dumbass.
(2) You appear to claim that everyone should just take their car to a shop instead of trying to fix their car on their own. Great answer. Let's all do that shall we? I mean, we all have lots of extra money lying around to pay a tech $70 - $100 per hour to fix car problems, correct?
I would place a safe wager that a great majority of the members of this forum have had success with their car repairs and learned a great deal about their cars as a result of our help. And for free! Go figure! So my curiosity is peaked as to why someone such as yourself would just drop in on a successful repair thread, skim over a few pages and start talking trash about people they don't even know? Man.....I just can't wait to hear your educated response to this.
07-02-07, 08:16 AM
#194
I'd like to hear his logic as welll, considering nothing angst said fits anywhere in this thread...
Wait...wait...let me rephrase that, I'd like to hear him out, except his kind of nonsense actually has nothing to do with this thread or it's objective.
So, Angst, Please go somewhere else and tell people that your don't know what your talking about, it would be a REAL shame if this thread turned into something it's not because of comments like that.
Scrip, this is one of those times, we just gotta be thankful we're not in his shoes, be thankful that we're not of his mindset to just give up and be content with being ignorant. I think anyone who has read this thread will recognize his true point, he's a little angry that he has to keep forking over his money to have his rx7 fixed for him.
I approach all of this as a hobby and a personal challenge, I am not in agreement with angst at all.
The t-wax hose, vac spider and block off kit are on their way, I'm waiting for my manifold deal to come to a close still. I'll keep you posted.
Wait...wait...let me rephrase that, I'd like to hear him out, except his kind of nonsense actually has nothing to do with this thread or it's objective.
So, Angst, Please go somewhere else and tell people that your don't know what your talking about, it would be a REAL shame if this thread turned into something it's not because of comments like that.
Scrip, this is one of those times, we just gotta be thankful we're not in his shoes, be thankful that we're not of his mindset to just give up and be content with being ignorant. I think anyone who has read this thread will recognize his true point, he's a little angry that he has to keep forking over his money to have his rx7 fixed for him.
I approach all of this as a hobby and a personal challenge, I am not in agreement with angst at all.
The t-wax hose, vac spider and block off kit are on their way, I'm waiting for my manifold deal to come to a close still. I'll keep you posted.
07-03-07, 09:03 AM
#195
I was just rereading th first couple pages of this thread and was amazed to see how much I missed/ didn't fully understand at the time, I mean you nailed the thermowax from the beginning.....I was ready to give up and pay the man to fix it, but thaks to the support of members like you guys, I was able to get back o track and get more knowledgeable about my own car.
So, I closed a deal on a new UIM, and LIM and Throttle Body, these are alot nicer than mine, they have no peeling or flaking at all inside and are flawless on the exterior, they were cleaned and I should have them shorty.
I'm looking forward to switching these out, we'll see if the thermowax responds better as well, though it will be a mix of the new TB and new hose, maybe I should just replace the hose first and see if my T-wax works better w/ the new hose, though I'll definitely be installing the new TB sooner than later, maybe keep mine for the TB mod and try some polishing....
anyways, here's a pic or two of my new UIM, LIM and TB:
Note that these parts haven't even been fully cleaned and prepped in the photos, they will be in better shape by the time he (viperkiller7) ships them to me.
I'm getting excited.
So, I closed a deal on a new UIM, and LIM and Throttle Body, these are alot nicer than mine, they have no peeling or flaking at all inside and are flawless on the exterior, they were cleaned and I should have them shorty.
I'm looking forward to switching these out, we'll see if the thermowax responds better as well, though it will be a mix of the new TB and new hose, maybe I should just replace the hose first and see if my T-wax works better w/ the new hose, though I'll definitely be installing the new TB sooner than later, maybe keep mine for the TB mod and try some polishing....
anyways, here's a pic or two of my new UIM, LIM and TB:
Note that these parts haven't even been fully cleaned and prepped in the photos, they will be in better shape by the time he (viperkiller7) ships them to me.
I'm getting excited.
07-03-07, 11:54 PM
#197
Yeah I was happy to sell my parts thats didn't fit( Tein S.techs) and be able to pick up these parts just by talking o this forum.
Some people talk a lot ****, I admit I might have made an off comment once or twice, though i don't make it a priority to flame, some people are just here to aggravate us, but for the most part, i think, we are an able community of like minded people who are capable of great things. Like fixing my idle.
I'll post back with pics and results.
Some people talk a lot ****, I admit I might have made an off comment once or twice, though i don't make it a priority to flame, some people are just here to aggravate us, but for the most part, i think, we are an able community of like minded people who are capable of great things. Like fixing my idle.
I'll post back with pics and results.
07-04-07, 12:22 AM
#198
Yeah I don't like to intentionally flame, yet I don't intend to become anyone's doormat either. I figure if they want to talk ****, eventually they will eat ****.
I look forward to your next results. Also remember to make sure the throttle is against the stop screw before finalizing your tps adjustments, then make your speed/ mixture adjustments, and all will be good.
I look forward to your next results. Also remember to make sure the throttle is against the stop screw before finalizing your tps adjustments, then make your speed/ mixture adjustments, and all will be good.
07-04-07, 12:34 AM
#199
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those are clean. this thread is funny. i think it was rude for blackangst to say what he did but i have to agree to an extent. scrip7, if youve been working on rx7's for 25 years why didnt u spot the surging idle as being a tps problem? its a common thing. a bubble under the thermowax is a bit far fetched to me. none the less, this thread has been informative.
07-04-07, 11:01 AM
#200
those are clean. this thread is funny. i think it was rude for blackangst to say what he did but i have to agree to an extent. scrip7, if youve been working on rx7's for 25 years why didnt u spot the surging idle as being a tps problem? its a common thing. a bubble under the thermowax is a bit far fetched to me. none the less, this thread has been informative.
In all honesty people, if your gonna try to pass judgment on this thread or people in it, please take the time to read the thread:
Please take the time to view the short video that illustrates the fast idle cam adjusting screw being adjusted and the idle's response.
Note that the TPS was readjusted after each time we tweaked the idle, and it was indeed,improperly set to begin with, but it was not the culprit of the surging idle.
I can adjust the tps all day and won't get any rhythmic surging, however by simply turning the screw shown in the video I can recreate the surge perfectly.
I have since bought the proper coolant hose for the repair and have also found a bunch of vac leaks and various things that will be replaced.
I'm just saying to take the time to read, and comprehend, if your gonna make a judgment.
