My 7 is a 91 N/A. Would I benefit from (or do I need) an AFR gauge in it?

 

An AFR gauge especially on the stock narrow band oxygen sensor won't show very detailed information. The nature of narrow band sensors is that they can only reliably tell you rich or lean but not by how much.

Also there's not much value in knowing the AFR unless you have a well controlled way of changing the fuel mixture. If you do have some kind of piggyback or replacement ECU, it would be well worth your wile to get a wide band AFR gauge.

However it is worth a little peace of mind to see that your AFR does go rich when you open the throttle. It's interesting to see the ECU go into closed loop mode or fuel cut mode. It's also interesting to see the AFR blip lean at 3800 RPM.

But it's mostly just pretty lights. (I put one on my racecar anyway)

ed

 

When my prior engine lost some compression across one seal, I could see the unburned fuel puffs at idle in the AFR spikes.

I learned of a bad injector recently by spotting a lean spike at idle. Also the gauge would fan out under load, lighting up 1/3 of the sweep.

Another use - The AFR showed I was not getting closed loop while cruising. I needed to set the TPS up a little higher.

Yes - they look cool, but they can be useful.

 

I agree, an AFR gauge can tell you a few useful things. Once in a while. It also can help teach you what certain sounds of your engine running mean. When your ECU goes into fuel cut mode, you can hear it but you might never hear it without a gauge pointing it out to you.

I've got one and I'll probably put one on all my cars but it's hard call it a necessary gauge.

ed

 

Please ignore anyone who says it's "useless" because you can't tune from it.

An AFR guage should not be used for tuning but it is still a very useful diagnostic tool on any engine if you understand what you're actually seeing. Any problems that affect AFR will instantly show up, and once you're use to what the gauge shows under different driving conditions you'll quickly spot any changes.

 

I know many people who tune with a narrowband AFR meter, and quite frankly I have much more faith in their engines than I do in those tuned by the majority of novice tuners out there who think that a wideband can make up for their severe lack of experience and education.

 

Well I could've said "you can't tune from it unless you have the knowledge and experience to do so" (and I have before), but I didn't want to give any of those novice tuners false hope.

It still doesn't change the fact that you have to use a much larger safety margin when using one, so you won't get as close to an "ideal" tune than you could with a wide-band.

 

AFR gauge= Driver entertainment gauge.

People who don't know about cars think they are cool though.

 

I'll put it this way...I have one in my Porsche 944...but only because it would look dumb with only two guages in a 3 guage pod. Can you use it? Yeah. Do you need it? Not yet.

 

If you really think that then all you're doing is showing your ignorance.

 

Actually I have them in both my cars, and use them (not for tuning). But most the time they are for driver entertianment. It was more of a joke.

 

I agree. It was, after all, the O2 sensor inputs (and the interpretation of them) that finally led me to nail the problem with my "mini-hesitations". AFR gauge would have done the same thing (it's on my Christmas wish-list, lol). After reading EVERY ECU input while driving, over the course of a couple of months, it was that lowly O2 sensor input that really told me what was going on...

And thanks to Hailers with his insistance that I replace an O2 sensor just because it was giving weird signals, I know have two good units, lol...

 

And thanks to Hailers with his insistance that I replace an O2 sensor just because it was giving weird signals, I know have two good units, lol...

1. I have stock in Bosch.

2. Who'da thought you didn't put your EGR blockoff plate on right???

3. Wideband's are dirt cheap. Get one.

4. If you don't have enough dirt......buy a cheap DIGITAL meter and use it to look at 02 readoouts. At least you can use the meter for other things in case you don't like the 02 narrow band meter.

5. I forgot what five is....

 

The same goes for a wideband, but don't spread that around.

 

Lol...

1) That explains a lot...

2) I put it on right, just neglected to institute the laws of thermodynamics in its construction...

3) Maybe one of these days, after the supercharger or nitrous...

4) I told you, digital meters are for people that can't figure out how to use a REAL meter

5) It's OK, I forget things in my old age too. Except for quotes from you, of course...

 

So what wideband products are available for our cars with stock managment?

 

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm

INNOVATIVE

Forgot the others. I'm not in the market for one right now. Do a SEARCH using WIDEBAND

WIDEBANDS are accurate. Narrowbands are not. I've used both. One thing for sure, I'd never spend any money on one (a narrow band meter) as long as I have a digital meter at hand. The narrow band was not alltogether useless. It's with that readout that I figured some things out about the airpump/acv etc. I'd never ever use one to adjust a SAFC. I've seen the glaring differences b/t the narrow band and a wideband readings.

 

Play nice kids. Wayne while you are very good at what you do with 7 electronics. A digital multimeter is 100% better then a needle gauge.

 

HAILERS...I did a search looking for car specific product information and prices...could not get both on one product, much like that link you just put up.

 

Ahhhhh! I remember number five now. It's the brand new FPR you bought to fix your thermodynamics faulty EGR blockoff plate. humor, please Oh, skip the supercharger. Just buy a turboii intake complete and turbocharger. It's cheaper and more useful. humor, sorta.

 

Lol, that, of course, is personal opinion. As if I haven't said this enough in my 4K-odd posts here, I've been an aircraft electrician since Feb '85, and I've used every meter known to man for different things. I still prefer the simple analog for my car troubleshooting. And that's my personal opinion

Hailers- yes, I changed some parts on the car that weren't bad. Only twice have I done that in the 6 years or so I've had the car. But if you knew that your engine was going lean during driving, and knew it wasn't the fuel pump or the injectors, what would YOU think might be the problem?

 

******during driving, and knew it wasn't the fuel pump or the injectors, what would YOU think might be the problem?******

I'd a put a fuel pressure gauge on the input line to the fuel rail ......then tied it to my windshield wipers......then driven to work/wherever. (put large smile HERE)

Tsk, tsk, tsk, you must be/been one of those avionics box swappers (LRU's if you will), in the servive. (put larger smiley HERE!) Done for the day.

 

Well, you're right for once...I should have used a pressure gauge. Thought about getting one several times. Spent my money on an O2 sensor instead. Someone told me that he was positive that it would fix the problem. Now who could that be? Short sentence humor, no smiley faces.

And I only swapped the black boxes AFTER confirming voltage, signal inputs, and grounds were good

 

Car specific? and price? I'm probably misunderstanding something. I don't think you'll find a wideband specifically for a RX7. The wideband are not model specific. On the TechEdge site the cost/price is on that site. I believe on that site you have to hit the ORDER button and progress from there. You don't have to actually make an order.

Wayne....I'm always right. Just ask me, if you need an objective opinion on that subject.

 

http://www.alamomotorsports.com/fjo_wideband.html

http://www.plxdevices.com/

http://www.zeitronix.com/

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...M-1_Manual.htm