Josepi

Why not just take an old turbo, rebuild the seals, and weld a pully onto the shaft. Throw out the exhaust side and bolt it up to where the air pump goes.

rxspd

Hey guys, how about this, run about 1000ft of line from this B*tch to your intake, and then whenever you wanted to drag race, just turn it on,and go. 1500cfm 200psi, It will be like nawz.
LOL, J/K man, good luck on the project.

rxspd

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

quote:
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Originally posted by kristopher_d
Some of us understand that you are afraid that he may try, actually accomlish something, and that you'll have to eat your words.
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I’m not in the slightest bit worried about that happening.
quote:
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If you believe that this will not work, state the facts as you see them, and shove your opinion where it belongs.
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We’ve tried! God knows we’ve tried! The fact that the air pump is a fraction of the size it needs to be to feed a 13B has been stated several times. I have enough confidence in my abilities as an engineer to state that as fact, not opinion.
quote:
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The most immoral thing a person may do, is to prevent an individual from taking an action which does not harm an unwilling individual. So, to everyone who is attempting to do this (verbally) I say go to hell you unimaginative, authoritarian, selfless bastards.
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Oh, cry me a river... This is a technical forum, not a human rights hug session. Besides, how are we preventing him from doing anything? He posted on a public forum. Telling us we don't have the right to comment in return makes you a hypocrite.
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The Wright brothers' father tried to tell them to give it up, they were just waisting time. There was no way that man would ever fly in a heavier than air craft. Uh, anyone see anything wrong with this mans logic. I do. We fly regularly
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You’re not the first person to use this silly example, and it’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. We know it won't work because we are well aware of this pump's abilities.
quote:
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There is an "e-charger" available that is about the size of our air pumps that produces 1-2 psi of boost. It's a cheap electric super-charger. Have fun figuring out how to make it work.
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Let me guess. The Turbo-Zet? If you believe that thing works, you’ll believe anything...

Well said NZCONVERTABLE!! Couldnt agree more. I avoided this whole thread last time,,, but this is just STUPID. IT WONT WORK!! And frankly I am surprised buy all the ignorance on here like "let him try, it might work", or "I want free boost too", or compairing this idiotic attempt with "man on moon", or "first manned flights". Best summed up by the statement (dont remember who said this but it cracked me up and is DEAD ON) "It's like trying to raise the level of a river by pissing in it".

Chris Ng

Personally, I would like Kristopher to provide me with imperical evidence that God/aliens do/don't exist ...
If he can do so, I shall give my whole hearted support for peacekeepers idea...

Sheesh... The FC has been around for over 13+ years.. in that length of time there as been hundreds of thousands of people who have owned and modified the cars..out of those hundreds of thousands of people, one person has finally come up with the idea of using the air pump for power 13+ years later?? People have already tried this and failed.. If they succeeded you would already know about it.. He is NOT going to stumble on any new amazing discovery on airpump theory that will turn the world upside down...

wpgrexx

if this guy really wants cheap boost he should get one of the air tanks for air tools and hook up the hose to the intake and just cruise with the container in shotgun. they go up to something like 200psi. imagine that , thats like a million horsepower or some ****. i gotta go, i am gonna do this myself right now. YESSSSSS!!!!!a million horsepower, i will rule the world

easy p-cheesy

CAN I BE YOUR SIDE KICK!?!?!!!!?!!!1/

zyounker

I am assuming you are kidding, but if not.. just case anyone else wants to try this, it is not PSI that matters.. it is CFM.. (Cubic Feet per Minute)

And a 10-25 gallon airtank would probably last abou 1/10 a second..


-Zach

wpgrexx

yeah man, just jokes. I would have to smoke some serious **** to want to really try that

kristopher_d

HAILERS,

Thank you for backing my point. If Otto Lilienthal had listened to his critics, the Wright Brothers would have had to figure out much more than they did.

NZConvertible,

An engineer who doesn't need numbers: a very scary thing. Please remind me never to go anywhere near anything you've designed on simple common sense and no numbers.

Aaron Cake,

It seems illogical to assume ignorance in someone who's background is completely unknown to you.

All those who think it will be a waste of time,

No project a man embarks on is a waste of his time. Obviously it is worth his time, or he wouldn't be doing it. Obviously it would be waste of your time because you do not wish to attempt it. Failure in an endeavor does not qualify that endeavor as a waste of time. It is impossible to make any accurate judgement of man other than one's self, from one's own point of view. My motives are not the same as yours. My actions are always for my own best interest. Your motives cannot be the same as mine because all individuals are incapable of being fully aware of the specific circumstances of another individual.

kristopher_d

It is completely impossible to do otherwise. The rise in water level will be immeasurable with current metering devices, but adding liquid to liquid increases liquid volume.

Obviously you are completely unaware of the last 6000+ years of human technological evolution. There is nothing that is impossible, only impossible with current methods, knowledge, and technology.

I will not provide empirical evidence of the existence or non-existence of god for one very simple reason: I do not care whether god exists or not. The existence of god being proven or disproven would not affect my decisions. By examining the information available at any given moment, I make my decisions with the intent of deriving the greatest personal benefit. I make my statements in this thread in hopes that a few of the people straddling the fence between individualism and collectivism will be encouraged toward individualism. Life would be much easier without the selfless masses attempting to get something for nothing.

Making a supercharger out of an airpump is not free horsepower. It is (if it works) horsepower at the cost of great effort.

NZConvertible

Since that comment referred specifically to one example, it's pretty obvious you're just arguing to hear your own voice. Nice little speech though. You should write self-help books...

kristopher_d

Perhaps I will. It will help pay for the mods to my car.

This was merely intended to demonstrate a point, not as a personal attack, though it likely was phrased as such.

Being and engineer, NZ is likely very busy and doesn't feel it is worth his time to dig up specific facts to support his arguments. That is perfectly acceptable. His judgements are based on his training as an engineer and are sound. I do not conceed that this project is impossible. I do conceed, and have stated so from the beginning, that success is doubtful without major modifications. I hope that NZ will agree that extensive enough modifications may yield performance gain.

banzaitoyota

" I hope that NZ will agree that extensive enough modifications may yield performance gain"

Give it up, You will not suceed in modifying a stock airpump to pass enough volume to have any MEASURABLE EFFECT on engine performance, If you cold succeed in modifying it to increase flow at a given RPM you will only suceed in having to inpuy more work (power) in order to drive the air pump. What kind of tolerances is Peacemaker "cutting his trenches" too?
What tools is he using?
How will he measure the effects of his efforts.
what is his baseline data?

peacekeeper

Sonce you ask. The base line data will be the measured amount of cfm produced by the stock air pump, the dyno results of the car before the mod. How will the effects be measured? Simple. It will be any differences in the dyno results after the mod. What tools am I using? Try an entire line of machineing tools. i.e. South Austing Machine Shop. I will use their tools. What am I cutting the trenches too? Not sure yet. I am not sure what the baseline cfm is. When I find this out I will be able to determine the amount needed to be cut to produce the greatest gain in cfm. I will not try and push too much through because of the tollerances of the air pump are, as I believe, not the strongest in the world. Hopefully, I will make even 5 hp more with this mod. I do not beleive that there will be this earth shattering gain in performance. Thats not what I want. I just want alittle more. I'm not here to be the fastest person in a straight line. I want alittle more power out of the turns with out the weight of a turbo or s-charger.
Charles

peacekeeper

oh and I will also be taking the compression of each of the three rotor tip like extremities in the pump.

'Vert in Vegas

Serious question:
Do you plan on having ALL engine air flow thru the air pump?
Or just augmenting the flow into the intake?

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

To be a supercharger you'll need to have all the intake air for the engine go through the airpump. Now sit back and think about this for a few. If all the air has to come through that pump in order to pressurize the system, you'll need an airpump that can supply more air than the engine needs. How much air can a stock turbo flow? I don't know exactly but probably around 500cfm. Do you honestly think that the air pump spinning at even 20,000rpm (turbo 100,000+rpm) will be able to supply this kind of air? Hell, look at the *intake* pipe on the stock air pump....it's about 1". By opening it up, you'll increase the cfm...but not that much. BTW...most engineering is done without numbers. That's because we can logically think things through and get an idea if something will work or not. If we have an idea that seems like it'll work...then we run the numbers.

banzaitoyota

"That's because we can logically think things through and get an idea if something will work or not. If we have an idea that seems like it'll work...then we run the numbers."

Good point, thats why us DESIGNERS have engineers on staff. To run our numbers for us!

peacekeeper

I was thinking just augmenting it to the intake, that way I don't have to route everything through an airpump. I just want to through more air in there thats all. An by making the pump pump more air I plan on trying to accomplish my goal.

Roy James

That would deffinatly probably gain some air flow, but you wont get a damned bit of "boost" bc if you start making any amount of possitive pressure it will go out the air inlet/filter, unless of course you wanted to slap down a Check Valve, but... that would be a pain in the ***. good luck man...... maybe.... we should route our useless A/C piping that everyone has taken off through the intake, HELLA COLD AIR BIOOTTCCHH!!!

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

Well, if you're going to go through with the test I'd do this. 1. run with stock air-pump 2.Run with modified air-pump 3.Run with no air-pump.

I would wonder if you might see more HP not having to turn that damn thing over. In this case you have less weight, one less thing the motor has to spin and a much cleaner engine bay.

'Vert in Vegas

OK, fair enough. Now think this out:
You have your pressurized air entering the airstream into your intake sytem. How will it know to go "in" the engine as opposed to "out" of the engine. (Make a left turn instead of a right)
This subject has turned ugly a couple of times, but the fact remains that some of these guys really do what they are saying.
I admit I have poked fun at you myself, but I was at least open about it, and not mean.
If you don't put ALL air through the pump you will be hurting your intake charge. It is simple fluid dynamics.
If you put all intake air through the pump that will be your most severe flow restriction, to your air charge.
Compressing air also raises its temperature. Hot air is lense dense.
In theory your engine displace 1.3 litres of air every rotation. at 1,000 rpm that is 1300 liters (about 320 gallons) at 6ooo rpm that is 7,800 liters (about 46,800 gallons)
If you supercharge it means an even greater increase in air volume.
Do you really think you can put that much air through the pump? AND cool it back down to restore volumetric efficiency to pre-boost levels?
You are not inventing a new idea here. This is well known ground.
It would make a lot more sense for you to put all of your energy into adapting someones existing supercharger to your engine.

'Vert in Vegas

Sorry, that was a simple math error.
Not 46,800 gallons, but about 1,900 gallons.
My point remains the same.

Roy James

use edit button....