Twin turbo Cosmo set up in FC Q's
01-02-05, 04:52 PM
#1
twin turbo Cosmo set up in FC Q's
My brother recently acquired a Twin Turbo Cosmo FC. The shop did a huge hack job. Just verified my reason again and again never to deal with them. On a defense I guess it was the guy who works there his car so I'm sure the shop does not take responseabilty.
My question is that it is running on a stock S4 ECU with the stock boost sensor hanging and not connected. What are the effects to this.
Were can I get a diagram for the twin turbo setup. Its running on the WG spring only.
It seems to use a hacked up S4 tps. Any suggestions or pics on how to hook this up. Is there a better why to hook this up.
Its using some pressure switched fuels system on 550cc injectors. Any where to read up on how they do this?
I've searched but did not find to much info on this conversion.
I was thinking about putting my remapped ECU in the car and hooking up the stock boost sensor. I think they removed the boost sensor due to fuel cut.
My question is that it is running on a stock S4 ECU with the stock boost sensor hanging and not connected. What are the effects to this.
Were can I get a diagram for the twin turbo setup. Its running on the WG spring only.
It seems to use a hacked up S4 tps. Any suggestions or pics on how to hook this up. Is there a better why to hook this up.
Its using some pressure switched fuels system on 550cc injectors. Any where to read up on how they do this?
I've searched but did not find to much info on this conversion.
I was thinking about putting my remapped ECU in the car and hooking up the stock boost sensor. I think they removed the boost sensor due to fuel cut.
01-02-05, 05:03 PM
#2
stop stealing my avatar
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I have no idea why they would remove the boost sensor other than fuel cut. I dont know why they would spend the $$ doing the cosmo swap, and not spend $20 to build an FCD.
by presure switched system, do you mean somthing like an FMU?
IMO-The only way to make this right would be going w/a standalone. lt-8's, and e6x's are cheap, compaired to a blown engine.
by presure switched system, do you mean somthing like an FMU?
IMO-The only way to make this right would be going w/a standalone. lt-8's, and e6x's are cheap, compaired to a blown engine.
01-02-05, 05:09 PM
#3
There are 2 extra 550CC injectors plumbed in near the TB. They each run off a separate pressure switch. Under boost they come online at max duty I assume. There is no additonal control i.e. Fcon.
(Forgive Ian for his bad english, I will translate where I can.)
(Forgive Ian for his bad english, I will translate where I can.)
Last edited by eViLRotor; 01-02-05 at 05:16 PM.
01-02-05, 05:15 PM
#4
Evilrotor is right. I suck at grammer and spelling.
Anyhow I do have pictures if it makes it easier.
The pressure switch once activate opens the fuel injectors fully.
Why did they not spend $20 on a fuel cut? Just take a look at their shop.
My remapped ECU has the fuel cut removed and I guess it was reprogrammed to run 13 psi on the stock turbo.
The 13B re is pulling 13psi of boost on the WG spring now.
Anyhow I do have pictures if it makes it easier.
The pressure switch once activate opens the fuel injectors fully.
Why did they not spend $20 on a fuel cut? Just take a look at their shop.
My remapped ECU has the fuel cut removed and I guess it was reprogrammed to run 13 psi on the stock turbo.
The 13B re is pulling 13psi of boost on the WG spring now.
01-02-05, 05:31 PM
#5
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Interesting, custom intake. Those injector positions are completley idiotic, looks like the guy who built it didn't read up on how to make a proper intake manifold injection system.
01-02-05, 08:24 PM
#6
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very true. It's common knowledge spraying fuel through a manifold that's designed to flow air is a bad idea.
it's hard to tell in those pics, are the injectors before, or after the TB?
your pre-burned ecu could make that motor run, however it's setup for a 13bt w/stock turbo..the re w/twins is going to need a whole differnt calibration. Have you put a wideband on this car?
I have only seen one shop build a simular car, they brought it to the rotary revilution last year. RE powered (run by stock t2 ecu) FB. maybe same guys?
it's hard to tell in those pics, are the injectors before, or after the TB?
your pre-burned ecu could make that motor run, however it's setup for a 13bt w/stock turbo..the re w/twins is going to need a whole differnt calibration. Have you put a wideband on this car?
I have only seen one shop build a simular car, they brought it to the rotary revilution last year. RE powered (run by stock t2 ecu) FB. maybe same guys?
01-02-05, 09:30 PM
#7
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The injectors look like they are before the manifold!
**** if I know, its clever, but there is nothing to control how much fuel the injector is letting in. It sounds like the pressure switch just shorts out the injector, completing the circuit, leaving the injector wide open! Thats why they don't need an AIC. This has got to be the cheapest extra fuel mod I have ever seen other than people tricking the temp sensor for extra fuel!
Once again, that is pretty neat, but thats what you gotta do when you have no money! Getting an AIC or a standalone that supports additional injectors is the best way to get the most out of your powerband.
Personally, Id get yourself a new TB off the forums here and mount the STOCK TPS to this properly. Judging from the pic, wich I have no idea why he did it, he welded up some parts on the TB. Im guessing thats why the tps doesn't fit there no more right?
To understand how their 'extra fuel system' works, im assuming all you need to know is how much voltage it takes to open up the injector all the way. Use some resistors if necessary and wire it up to a switch. From wich these extra injectors are activated, I have no idea.
I think the question really at this point is this:
How much money do you want to throw at this to get it working efficiently? or do you just want to spend as little money possible to get it running? im confused as to what your future plans are with this engine.
Its using some pressure switched fuels system on 550cc injectors. Any where to read up on how they do this?
Once again, that is pretty neat, but thats what you gotta do when you have no money! Getting an AIC or a standalone that supports additional injectors is the best way to get the most out of your powerband.
Personally, Id get yourself a new TB off the forums here and mount the STOCK TPS to this properly. Judging from the pic, wich I have no idea why he did it, he welded up some parts on the TB. Im guessing thats why the tps doesn't fit there no more right?
To understand how their 'extra fuel system' works, im assuming all you need to know is how much voltage it takes to open up the injector all the way. Use some resistors if necessary and wire it up to a switch. From wich these extra injectors are activated, I have no idea.
I think the question really at this point is this:
How much money do you want to throw at this to get it working efficiently? or do you just want to spend as little money possible to get it running? im confused as to what your future plans are with this engine.
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01-03-05, 01:14 AM
#8
Lives on the Forum
I'm sorry, but whenever I see things like this, I have to question the owner's intent.
A LOT of these projects end up like this due to the owner NOT willing to spend the proper money to get it done correctly.
Minimally, it's several thousands of dollars (U.S.) to do.
The budget got cheap or the shop had no idea how to do this properly.
The stock Zenki turbo ECU can control this motor, but it's a waste of time.
The Cosmo 13B-RE twin-turbos will peg the Zenki FC turbo stock AFM, and the ECU cannot compensate for the increase airflow.
It is possible to get the (Cosmo / FD) TPS to work with the stock Zenki turbo FC ECU, but again, I ask why???
The set-up should go stand-alone, period.
No sense wasting the potential of the motor.
The notion of trying to get a stock ECU to run this set-up is just a waste of time - get rid of the motor and go back to a stock FC motor if you're trying to do this.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/SWAP/COSMO/13b-re.html
-Ted
A LOT of these projects end up like this due to the owner NOT willing to spend the proper money to get it done correctly.
Minimally, it's several thousands of dollars (U.S.) to do.
The budget got cheap or the shop had no idea how to do this properly.
The stock Zenki turbo ECU can control this motor, but it's a waste of time.
The Cosmo 13B-RE twin-turbos will peg the Zenki FC turbo stock AFM, and the ECU cannot compensate for the increase airflow.
It is possible to get the (Cosmo / FD) TPS to work with the stock Zenki turbo FC ECU, but again, I ask why???
The set-up should go stand-alone, period.
No sense wasting the potential of the motor.
The notion of trying to get a stock ECU to run this set-up is just a waste of time - get rid of the motor and go back to a stock FC motor if you're trying to do this.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/SWAP/COSMO/13b-re.html
-Ted
01-03-05, 02:21 AM
#9
The car is a 'little ghettorigged' but it runs fine at the moment. Makes good boost with the stock -RE twins running parallel. It does have a nice FMIC.
Just playing Devils Advocate here, but aside from the obvious switch to standalone, can this system be made to work at least for a finite period?
-As long as the additional injectors are supplying enough fuel to run the car at a reasonable AFR (low 11's), the engine should be fine, correct. The only downside I can see is making the injector work at 100% duty whenever they come online.
-Could a second option be getting a fuel controller for just the extra injectors? That would be the most cost effective solution.
Unfortunately, what's done is done, and the car is bought. Ian's brother doesn't have the budget for and EMS at the moment. The whole objective is to get rid of as much ghetto as possible, without a large monetary investment, and keeping the car running for a while.
Just playing Devils Advocate here, but aside from the obvious switch to standalone, can this system be made to work at least for a finite period?
-As long as the additional injectors are supplying enough fuel to run the car at a reasonable AFR (low 11's), the engine should be fine, correct. The only downside I can see is making the injector work at 100% duty whenever they come online.
-Could a second option be getting a fuel controller for just the extra injectors? That would be the most cost effective solution.
Unfortunately, what's done is done, and the car is bought. Ian's brother doesn't have the budget for and EMS at the moment. The whole objective is to get rid of as much ghetto as possible, without a large monetary investment, and keeping the car running for a while.
01-03-05, 02:28 AM
#10
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by eViLRotor
Just playing Devils Advocate here, but aside from the obvious switch to standalone, can this system be made to work at least for a finite period?
If you can live with the getto-rigging, it's your car.
The hard part is getting the TPS to work.
Easiest would be to get an FD TPS - they are the same thing.
The Cosmo / FD TPS has both narrow and full range wires on them.
For the S4 ECU, you just need the narrow wires - disregard the full range side.
Now the downside is a new FD TPS costs $300US+ for a new one from the Mazda dealer.
Get that pressure sensor plugged back into the engine!
You're not getting the ignition timing retard under boost, and that can kill the engine.
-As long as the additional injectors are supplying enough fuel to run the car at a reasonable AFR (low 11's), the engine should be fine, correct. The only downside I can see is making the injector work at 100% duty whenever they come online.
A brand new AIC would cost several hundred dollars.
Maybe might look into the GReddy e-Manage ($400US new)?
That might be the most cost effective solution short of a used AIC.
-Could a second option be getting a fuel controller for just the extra injectors? That would be the most cost effective solution.
Most fuel controllers are dependent on the AFM signal.
Having 5.0VDC input and trying to add more percentage doesn't increase anything.
-Ted
01-03-05, 09:27 AM
#11
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IAN I thought your brother wanted to make the world's first 6 second Geo, what happened? 
Which shop is that car from? How well does the car function at the moment?
Which shop is that car from? How well does the car function at the moment?
01-03-05, 12:56 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Snrub
IAN I thought your brother wanted to make the world's first 6 second Geo, what happened? Which shop is that car from? How well does the car function at the moment?
Which shop is that car from? How well does the car function at the moment?-I won't say. But its the shop that usually creates flamewars.
-Car is up on stands now for 'de-ghettoing', but it boosted well and was pretty fast...
01-03-05, 01:02 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Snrub
IAN I thought your brother wanted to make the world's first 6 second Geo, what happened?
01-03-05, 02:15 PM
#15
Ok. Rather then responding to each person i will just splurge it all here
Not sure what the orginal budget was on this car. Previous owner claimed it was $18Kcdn. All I see is a new FMIC and exhaust. Engine was supposed to be brand new with new housings. Can't see that but lets assume its "newer" housings and rotors.
As of yet we are trying to get the car de-getto and running for as cheap as possible since a bit of money was used to purchase the car. Trying to use what parts we have and get it running safe for this coming summer. Car for a car having perfect paint needs a perfect body job!
You do not have to tell me the importance of a real stand alone etc. Just look at my car in the link below. I probable spent more then I should!
I figure since the car already is setup perfectly according to the performance shop on the S4 ECU without the boost controller setup I gather me installing my remapped ECU (Removed fuel cut and added fuel) and connecting the boost sensor could only help improve things. Problem connecting the boost sensor now is hitting fuel cut. The twins are kicking 13psi .
As of yet I will have to totally redo all of the wiring. Do you want to know how getto this F@ck is. He wired the gauges directly to the battery!
Good side to this I can hang out with my brother and put together for the second summer in a row another RX7!
Anyhow any pictures of what the TPS should look like installed?
Not sure what the orginal budget was on this car. Previous owner claimed it was $18Kcdn. All I see is a new FMIC and exhaust. Engine was supposed to be brand new with new housings. Can't see that but lets assume its "newer" housings and rotors.
As of yet we are trying to get the car de-getto and running for as cheap as possible since a bit of money was used to purchase the car. Trying to use what parts we have and get it running safe for this coming summer. Car for a car having perfect paint needs a perfect body job!
You do not have to tell me the importance of a real stand alone etc. Just look at my car in the link below. I probable spent more then I should!
I figure since the car already is setup perfectly according to the performance shop on the S4 ECU without the boost controller setup I gather me installing my remapped ECU (Removed fuel cut and added fuel) and connecting the boost sensor could only help improve things. Problem connecting the boost sensor now is hitting fuel cut. The twins are kicking 13psi .
As of yet I will have to totally redo all of the wiring. Do you want to know how getto this F@ck is. He wired the gauges directly to the battery!
Good side to this I can hang out with my brother and put together for the second summer in a row another RX7!
Anyhow any pictures of what the TPS should look like installed?
01-03-05, 02:18 PM
#16
Originally Posted by JagerII
If you do something as big as a 13B-BE swap imho you must do it right. A stand alone is what is needed, and a better local shop to do this (if you aren't doing it).
01-03-05, 04:23 PM
#21
Originally Posted by IAN
western canada to me. LOL. GTA area. Greater Toronto Area.
Last edited by The Griffin; 01-03-05 at 04:30 PM.
01-04-05, 09:23 AM
#24
-How much extra wear and tear is there on an injector when it constantly sees 100% duty like it does in this setup? Are we talking a drastically reduced lifespan?
-Also, when an injector fails, does it fail open or closed
-Ian is bidding on a Haltech F5 AIC on Ebay atm, that would be a simple solution.
-Also, when an injector fails, does it fail open or closed
-Ian is bidding on a Haltech F5 AIC on Ebay atm, that would be a simple solution.
01-04-05, 05:06 PM
#25
Is that thing Turbo?
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Sorry to say but you really need to put the money into it, incorrect fuel is very bad. and i can't believe it but it looked like those injectors were before the TB, that is crazy i would go for a new tb and standalone