The Last Mahadocon

iTrader: (6)

well so far i haven't found any really succesful threads to read up on this type of thing so here it goes... what is the key to making a high boost rotory? What will help you with boost? how can i make my car more preventative from blowing up? i know that 3 mill apex seals are a common upgrade as well as a full rebuild, but no one really has any info on the power that you can make fromt that. how much boost can you proceede to turn up too, how do you prepare your engine for more boost than that? is there anything special you can do to make your engine able to hold say 12psi as a daily driver? what does my stock t2 turbo max out at? all of these are hard to find answers (probably only for me... im sure im jsut to dumb to realize there right in front of me). can a person, anyone at all wiser than me please tell me the ways of high boost? any info at all is helpfull
-Ryan

( p.s. if there is already a good thread on this, could someone link me? i cant find one lol)

TII

i run 12 as a daily driver

key to not blowing up is dont run lean

720 secondary injectors stock 550 primary upgraded fuel pump
Eng. managment ie.rtech 1.7 chip
free up exh.
s4 turbo port wastegate to avoid boost creep with exh

TII

to much higher than 12psi bigger injectors more tunning and better turbo

hurleysurf24

iTrader: (3)

im new to turning up the boost in the 7 but i do understand how things work

first and foremost you want to make sure your vehicle has sufficient cooling and breathing mods. (Turning up the boost will create more heat from the turbo charger and block itself). I chose to put a fmic and 3" turbo back exhaust on mine.

Next you need to pay attention to fuel ... if you were running around 10 psi I think you may be able to get away with stock fuel. Anything above that I think you need to do atleast any TWO of the following to start off with (if not all of them). Warlboro 255 fuel pump, Fuel pressure regulator, 720secondaries, SAFC/RTEK (fuel management).

This should make you stable to run it every day. The only other thing I suggest to keep you running well is a monitoring device, i.e. boost gauge so you can make sure you don't creep too much. Otherwise you won't know if that 14 pounds you want to run is really pushing 18-20 pounds.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

yea, if you're running anything more than stock, you definately want to know how much boost you're running. However, the fuel mods arent quite as simple as hurleysurf makes them out to be. To run 720 secondaries on the stock ECU, you will need an SAFC or something to control them properly. That way you arent running too rich when the secondaries kick in (3800 rpm under load). In turn, if you now start injecting more fuel, you run the risk of not having enough supplied to the fuel rail at adequite pressure, which requires the larger capacity fuel pump. So in a way, each of these mods requires something else to work correctly

The adjustable fuel pressure regulator will just allow you to raise the fuel pressure at all times, resulting in the car running rich all but at max boost, and would still require you to figure out what pressure it needs to be at to supply enough fuel at that point. Because a higher pressure is required, a new fuel pump may be needed as well.

Hope this helps

The Last Mahadocon

iTrader: (6)

alright guys, you do seem to be the boost masters so maby a few more questions.

1) if im not gonna run 3 mill apex seals is it still alright to turn the boost up to 10 or 12 psi?

2) i bought a walbro, autometer guages, and im buying an safc tonight. i still need a fuel pressure reg and just 720 secondary injectors ( jsut 720's for the secondary-'s right? i dont need to replace the primaries?) can someone suggest what type of f.p.r. i should buy and where? how about the injectors?

3)is there any special trick to wiring the safc?

4) to up the bost do you jsut shim the waste gate or buy another wastegate spring?

5)can someone direct me to a good page about porting or explain to me exzactly what it is haha.... i read it all the time and i still have no clue.

6) anything els i should know?

88turbotime

yes, with the proper fuel mods.
I dont think you really need a fuel pressure regulator, but we'll let someone else chime in on that.
You only need to replace the secondaries, unless you are going to make crazy amounts of boost in the low rpms, but i doubt you will with the stock turbo. and yes 720s are good. Keep in mind that you will probably buy low impedence injectors and if your car is 1988 or later you will need to wire up some resistors to these injectors. There are plenty of threads explaining what resistors to get and where to wire them. You can find injectors in the parts for sale section.
Its kind of a pain in the *** to wire it into the ecu wires. Just be sure not to **** it up
Most people just port their wastegate to prevent dangerous boost creep. Again we might need to know what year your car is, since i dont know if there is a difference in S4 and S5 here.
porting what? the wastegate or the motor?
probably

The Last Mahadocon

iTrader: (6)

thanks for you help man,

im pretty sure its gonna be an s4 motor and ecu and ish so yeah... the porting thing... engine and wastegate i have no clue what porting is. also whats boost creep? its a 1988 gxl. im ordering a jdm motor and rebuilding it. lol someone help?

dpf22

I would suggest a standalone, money well spent....But if you don't know what you are doing, you may end up worse off than where you started. Stock n/a wiring harness will not run with a turbo ecu clipped to it. some re-pinning of the connectors is required. At this point you might as well go with a megasquirt engine management system. Your choice, but thats my suggestion. An adjustable fpr is a good idea, however, better used with a standalone again.
Keep reading, you will find a lot of stuff about running with boost. I wouldn't try to run anything incredible too quickly. after all, you will have a fresh motor to rebuild.
Keep the exhaust as stock as possible to keep the turbo from spinning too many psi till the thing is completely broken in. There is more, just don't want to overwhelm you at the moment.

dpf22

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

you should talk to J-Rat. He is in your hood, and pushes BIG boost.
Dont know how much experience you have wrenching, but putting up big boost numbers isnt something you should try on a whim, especially with a rotory. There are people here to help out, but also check the shops around town. AZ seems to have lots of rotor heads springing up.

PS. I am not doing 3mm seals and will have 15lbs of boost on a stock (kinda) turbo.

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

Porting means making the holes bigger. You port the engine to get more power, though at the expense of a little mpg and emissions. I drive an N/A and can only guess what porting the wastgate means, but I'm gonna guess it lets the wastgate keep the boost under control at higher horsepower? I guess right?

Read up carefully and don't pop your motor. Fear and empty pockets keep me N/A.

tandolla

iTrader: (1)

for me i have hit kinda high boost .. i know it was boost creep so i let off the throttle once i saw it.. i have just an 3" exhaust, Aftermarket TID w/ cone filter. and FMIC and i got 14psi in on boost creep but was steedy at 10psi.. I have only a S-AFC2 to controll A/F ratio's but i also have not ported wastegate yet. i am going to do that soon before i try to hit high boost levels again.

The Last Mahadocon

iTrader: (6)

thanks for the help guys

NZ_87_TURBO

see this thread for wastegate porting https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-gen-archive-72/serious-s4-wastegate-porting%85-352816/ ( pics are at the bottom )

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Eh. 25PSI isnt that big of boost!

If the thread starter is interested in what I know, I am always available!

Rat

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

ya, if you got A.I.
what kinda injection set up are you gonna run with the new motor?

The Last Mahadocon

iTrader: (6)

well, untill i get the motor and stuff set up for higher boost (aka porting, biggear apex seals, new gaskets) im gonna run it stock. but ive been looking a lot and i really wanna do this correctly, as previously stated i already bought a fuel pump, boost guage, and ive still got more to buy. but when i start thinking about higher boost heres whats planned

1) new turbo(possible t3/t4 50 trim) or seal the wastegate on the stock one and go aftermarket wastegate with a pro fec b boost controller.

2) bigger secondary injectors 720 i think it was?

3) safc 2

4) not sure about this one but a wide band so i can tune my car a little easier ( not sure how wide band works for rotory's)

5)port everything

6) already bout a walbro 255lph

any thing els you think i should get? keep in mind i am a freshman in collage so im pretty much donating my right nut to the cause of powering my car.



j-rat, the help is much appriciated, maby ill get a aim sn or something so we can tlak about your amazing abilty to put 25 psi with out bolwing anything up lol..... i freeking was driving an na car and i still blew it up lol.


i think within this thread the most ocmplicated part is going to be tuning, i am relitvly new to this, my first experence with turbo was about a month ago when we turboed my friends 240 ka. its fing quick and i no sooner wanted to turbo my ish. i appriciate everyones help with anything that they would like to add to the thread, out of the three weeks of reading ive probably pulled more information out of this single thred than i have using the god dam search tool. if anyone wants to add anything they might think is help full, go for it any advice is encouraged.
-Ryan

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

With the new turbo and motor I am going to switch to meth. Straight meth..

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Bigger apex seals is one of the most worthless modifications (in my opinion).


Cool, I made 434 on a stock port, and some people on this forum have done even better!

Not trying to say anything negative, but your choice of turbo is a bit.. Hmmm how to put it... a bit SMALL!

That is going to depend ENTIRELY on your HP goal and turbo selection.

My "amazing" ability to run 25 PSI is because there is an "AMAZING" pool of knowledge here in Tucson. My IC setup was built by Ryan Shook, my tuning is done by the master himself, Trevor, and more various fab work is performed by my homie Carlos (another UA student). And I cant forget the motor that wont quit that was built by Glen (490? THATS IT?!?!) Weaver at Azrotaryrockets.

If big HP is what you want, we can definately help you!

The Last Mahadocon

iTrader: (6)

lol help would gladly be accecpted. is there a more spesfic club you guys are part of? it seems like a lot of you guys are based in Az and if so i would be incredbly intrested in meeting up with you guys sometime if you have like club meets, it seems like theres a lot to learn from yoou guys and if your makin 430 with a bigger port and a stock motor... well hell ill take your word! i guess im baased in a good place to start learning about rotory boost. haha az is apearently th place to be. alright so let me get this right...

1) i dont need bigger seals

2) acording to the boost master... a t3/t4 is to small? this is the one ide be getting i believe supports up to something like 22 lbs or soemthing like that. heres the turbo
http://www.agpturbo.com/product.php?...cat=313&page=1

3) injector size... hmm well my goal is just at least 300hp. im not sure what i would have to get for that... i believe that i would have to get a standalone. maby 8** injectors. i dunno, im not even sure how standalone works... lol fuel maping sucks. ill jsut discuss this if oyu guys have a meeting or something, i can ask you guys in person when the questions are actually coming to my head...



to everyone els, keep this thread open. haha your information really helps!!!

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I will let some of the others tell you also, but that 50lb wheel aint going to do squat, and the choices of turbine A/R will plug up a rotary. Turbochargers respond differently on rotaries then they do pistons. I dont have the math in front of me, but there is a way to guesstimate the amount turbo performance will diminidh if its attached to a rotary. Not too mention thats a T3 flange...

dpf22

I believe that I have recently learned that you calculate CFM from the wheel and then divide that number by 1.5(depending on the person) and you will get your round about horse power at boost (to the wheels) and also your efficiency. Most of the people I talk to go about to the 400 mark and start there for average t4 compressors. Thus why you see such large compressors being used on rotaries. Basically these engines suck....a LOT of air, and can use a lot of air to make power.

dpf22
this is just from what I can remember, I could be wrong somewhere, but it is a good guessing tool

ENZO182007

there are some good books out there . Street turbocharging.. or MAximun boost .. or the basic Rx 7 performance handbook
15 mins in a barnes and noble could could answer alot of what ur asking

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

These are the types of turbos you'll want when your ready!
not to mention the manifold...

These will get you the big numbers your looking for. Stand alone is defintely recommended as well as 1600cc secondaries...

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Just as a note:

My 490 was done on an HKS log manifold.

Rat