ok i have an 86 sport .. n/a... and i think the oil seals are shot..so im thinking about taking it apart and porting it up for whe i have the moeny to rebuild it using s5 rotors and stuff...but anywyas... this is not my daily driver it is my toy.. it will be used for drifting, autocross or just going fast and turning lol... im trying to decide what type of porting i should go for.. id like to gewt around 200whp. and rev to 7.5k (s5 rotors should make it ok to do this right?) .. im looking for power from roughly 3500-7500... give or take 500 rpms..what do u guys think? i was thinking a rb street port but a lil bigger/more agressive, but im still new to the game and i could use some opinions from more experienced people.

thanks

 

well...hmm

 

Waste of time and money...
Go 13BT.


-Ted

 

nah i want n/a power... thanks though.

 

Bare block with a bridge port, carb & collected header.
And some other supporting stuff like hardened stationary gears.

O - yea - & earplugs.

 

^ unreasonable answer... just not too smart thinking IMO, now if you just want 200rwhp, do a search for a guy named Kahren, he will port it for you (plates and housings, i.e. intake and exhaust) with a type of port that is good for at least 200rwhp, or you can get his stage 2 which is good for 220rwhp (claimed), and he does stage 3 upon request, meeting your request...

Just would be the easiest if you ask me, if you do wanna port it yourself though, well i would say search a heck of a lot more if you have to ask which type of port and you wanna port it...

- chris

 

So which stand-alone EMS are you planning to get?
You don't think you're going to do this on the stock ECU, right?


-Ted

 

Kahren was constantly making 200 HP with only a SAFC.

 

Kahren streetport (by Kahren), s5 rotors, possibly upgraded stat gears, 550cc secondaries injectors, and so on, just search "Kahren" in the Time Slips and Dyno section.

 

Constantly?


-Ted

 

i appreciate it guuys.. thanks ill look up his post and do some more reading

 

182 / 195 was done with a 13BT upper and lower intake manifold?
How many of you guys have done this yet?

The 186 was done with a Haltech E6X.


-Ted

 

Just wait till I dyno mine

Gotta get it through emissions first tho . . .

 

Yeah, I'd like to see links to all of these 200whp SAFC only cars you're talking about. 200fwhp maybe. I'm shooting for 200rwhp myself. I'm going with a Kahren stage 2, type 1 stat gears w/3 window bearings, jetted e-shaft, T2 oil pump, clearanced S5 rotors, MS&S EMS, extrudehoned S4 LIM/S5 UIM, header & full exhaust.

 

no one has hit 200rwhp with a NA 13b in a second gen as long as I have been on the forum. Karen was close but that was not your average NA motor. I think Ted's point is there are better things to spend 5k on than getting your tiny 13b to 200 rwhp.

 

ok well if i were to use the rb street port, with basic header exhaust, s5/s4 intake mani (with vdi) , and s-afc .. what could i expect power to be around.. im not looking to set records, i actually thought 200whp was pretty easy.,..im trying to get atleast 160-180whp.but im not willing to spend 5k lol...i found post and info on the different types of porting, but havent been able to find out which is good for what and how much power, etc...

also what could i modify to the rb templates to get a bit more power from the porting?

 

maybe, all templates are gonna be conservative, as far as no N/A hitting 200rwhp.... i dont browse this forum much, and im normally on TeamFC3S and you're right most people dont, however, if Aussies can get 300+ rwhp out of a N/A 13B, i believe it is safe to assume, if you do it right, then you can get 200rwhp. If you want to go piggy-back instead of stand-alone i suggest something along the lines of a Greddy E-Manage, if you know how to use it, you can adjust timing and fuel, if you want a step above that but still no stand-alone, go with the E-Manage Ultimate. They both will take someone who knows what they are doing or research by you to tune with...

It is hard to say how much power you will get from a given port, because each port can have its slight variances, etc. Besides as already covered most people enjoy buying engines and go Turbo... ok, im sorry, that was my only turbo bash... in their defense they obviously love power...

Like i said, if you do it right you can get what you are looking for, if Kahren didnt make 200rwhp with his stage 1, go with his stage 2 that he claims 220rwhp out of, then you should probably make around 200rwhp according to what has been posted, or if you want to do it yourself... well, just do some research, check here, Nopistons.com / teamfc3s.org / ausrotary.com do alot of reading and you will find while rare, some of us others want to stay N/A and are not pessimists about the power that it can make...

- chris

 

skeery...


-Ted

 

pp

 

well id be happy with 165+whp... but i cant seem to find what the benefits of each porting style are.. which are good for what..what type horesepower gaines each can cause... and stuff..i wanna port it myself because i want to learn...i like doing work myself as i work on my s13 myself and everyhting.. rotarys are intreging (sp?) and i wanna tear mine apart and port it, but not sure what type of port to do...plus i dont want another turbo car i wanna experience some n/a power ...i want the throttle responce and everyhting.. whats the stock s4 n/a put out to the wheels.. like 120something?

 

Yes if this development ever gets to 200 or 220 which it just might you still will have 5k into the build. And then you will start to destroy the weaker NA drivetrain its connected to.

13bt with 5k into the build you have a full to4 and pushing 400rwhp. It will just never equal out. These engines are just to small to not have forced induction. You can do a PP port and get your 300rwhp and it will last less than 10k miles and its not street driveable anymore. Some times you just have to realize what you have to work with and its limitations.

 

I get so tired of hearing that a turbo = more hp/$. It's not because it's wrong... but because the same people make much better points when they say something not everyone has heard a lot. There doesn't seem to be a lot of tolerance for eccentricity on this forum. Not everything has to be practical, or as efficient as possible, just fun. Just because you wouldn't have fun building up an NA, doesn't mean that others don't. When my father takes on projects he rarely cares how cool of a widget he's going to make, or how fast it'll go, but moreso if the challenges along the way seem like they'd be fun. He tends to ride/drive what he works on for at most 1/3 the time he worked on it before selling and moving on.

Edit: example in last post... loved the first paragraph, could do without the second

 

Counterpoint...

If it was just about the money, cars are almost always money pits!

1) The turbo will always make more power, period.
2) The turbo can be made streetable at 300hp+ levels, while a non-turbo "cannot".
3) Initially, the turbo will make more power / $.

Let me quantify #3.
Non-turbo with full exhaust and intake...
Turbo with full exhaust and intake...
The non-turbo exhaust will cost more due to the header.
But for argument sake, lets say these mods are similar in price?
Non-turbo goes from ~130 up to ~170.
Turbo goes from ~160 up to ~220.
These numbers are what I consider averages from what I've seen posted.
So, 40hp jump for the non-turbo and 60hp jump for the turbo.
$ for $, the turbo gains more.
$ for $, the turbo has more maximum power.

So, I side with Bukwild on this one...


-Ted

 

Crap, I reread your reply, and now my reply doesn't make any sense. :P

Oh well, it was an intellectual exercise.

You're right.
Dyno / power numbers are for bragging.

But...

We're in an open forum.
Prepared to get criticized, period.
If you really didn't care about "public opinion", why bother posting?


-Ted

 

I suppose that is true. And no verification if it was constant.