I have recently put a TII motor in my car that runs great but I still have some fuel injection issues. First is that my A/F ratio gauge reads rich all the time. That is even with my brand new oxygen sensor so I know it's good. I have turned the lean/rich adjusting resistor 20 turns in either direction and it seems to do nothing at all. There is NO adjusing screw at all on my BAC valve and if you try to hold the car at anything below 3k it seems to surge instead of holding steady.

.........any ideas??????????

P.S. I have no airpump, ACV, rats nest is removed, new fuel filter, the cars seems to drive good and even boost up to the stock 6 psi.

 

When you got your Jspec, did you use the TII afm as well or still using the NA afm? And are the injectors in good operating order?

 

NA afm as well as ECU, modified harness, etc

 

the resistor is only for idle.

it should run in the rich range. both at idle and under load.

and should go back and forth at cruise.

 

I'm interested as to how you ran the NA ECU?

I think the NA afm could be your problem. But I don't know how you would get about to running a TII afm and how it would react with an NA ECU. This is where I'm clueless and would tell you to buy a TII afm or a fuel controller like a SAFC.

 

I'd say you need a TII AFM and the ECU as well. Those are probably your problems right there.

 

The two are pretty much the same, in the FSM you can see some extra features one will have that the other does not not but for basic function they are identical in many ways.

 

What about your TPS? set that lately?
That will stop your car from going into the cruise mode.. Which will make it appear to run rich all the time.

 

I set it at what the FSM said which is at 1k, it was at 2.5k before and now I hear that people set them by the 1volt at idle standard. So I guess I will have to reset that again, the bitch is that it was probably right in the first place.

 

bump

 

bump

 

hey john looks like we are both having problems with our TII cars running right!

 

Dude, you gotta be shitting me. You're running an NA afm and NA ecu on a turbo engine, and asking why things aren't peachy. I would think that would be self explanatory. True, either version will start, run, and drive the car, but you have to understand that the NA stuff is set up to read up to atmospheric and no more. IT has no clue that you are going over atmospheric. IT also has no clue that you are injecting about 20% more fuel then the stock NA setup. And you wonder why you are running rich.

Not to mention that any turbo rotary runs rich across the board. Especially if you remove emissions controls.

This is a surprise to you, that a turbo rotary, with removed emissions, and EFI controls never meant to operate that particular engine, is not running perfectly???

 

Firstly, it won't run right at lower rpms because the ecu adjusts the a/f ratio using the afm input among other things. Since you are using the wrong afm, I would assume that is the main reason for surging. As for running rich, they will over the entire rpm range. You don't want to run your turbo motor at stoichiometric.

 

....Well, I did some poking around today and ignoring the FSM and listening to some posts I read adjusted my TPS the way people say to do it on the forums by getting it to 1 volt at idle/rest setting. Now there is NO surging at all when under load or not, the power feels just right for a Turbo car, my A/F ratio gauge reads like it should, just slightly rich under idle and acceleration, and at a no load cruise it will sometimes bounce stoich to rich quickly back and forth just like it did on my last car. Not only that my NA cruise control works great. So my only irritation left is a slight difference in idle from time to time it varies from 1200 down to 500 depending on temperature, that I imagine will be easy for me to adjust tomorrow when I have more time. Funny thing is my 3k start-up is gone, probably due to some of the stuff removed like the ACV?

So here is what I got working well that is supposed to be impossible:
NA ECU
NA AFM
NA Harness
No Emissions
No Twin scroll (not hooked up)
NA Cruise control

Car starts dependable enough for me to use my remote starter every time.

 

How does the TII afm differ from the NA version? Maybe it is bugging with my idle.

 

Not impossible, just ill advised. We'll talk to you again in 6 months about it.


The NA afm, NA cruise, and NA harness have been done before, by me, and others before me. People run with no emissions or twinscroll all day long. The NA ecu, well, nobody has really been down that road, I guess none of us have been that brave/stupid/whatever.

The NA and t2 afm's have the same dimensions, but different spring rates. This means that, for instance, at 300cfm, the t2's flapper will not quite be as far open as the NA's. This means that at a vertain point, the NA's afm will max out, while the t2's can still go on measuring more airflow. At idle they really arent much different...the more airflow that goes through them, the more they differ. Top end airflow measurement is what changes.

 

Ok, Maybe I will try and get a TII one if I have problems in higher boost settings.

But the jerk off thing is a little much.

 

John I have one at the shop... if you want to try it out

 

The jerk off thing is in re: to your comment about you "making the impossible work". You're doing nothing special, nothing commendable or even smart. But, it is working, and that is great for you. Just don't make a habit of going around telling newbies that all they gotta do is stick a jspec in an NA engine bay and turn the key and everything will be alright...your setup is largely untested at this point.

I'm all for experimentation and trying new things, going against convention, etc. Hell, that's how I learned a lot of what I know...try it and see what happens. And now, here I stand, telling you what can/may happen, and if you don't believe me (and the others) then that is your loss.

We're all here to try and keep our setups in one piece, and that's all I'm trying to promote. I'm trying to help you, and others. But, as i always say, do what you want. Just expect me and some others to be here if you feel like spreading this misinformation around to those that don't yet know better.

 

Hmmmm.... I have run a turbo motor with a N/A ecu and AFM before... Very stupid now in hindsight, IIRC the N/A AFM ended up maxing out at around 7Psi in 4th gear I think it was?

So I guess at stock boost with no boost creep you'd probably be ok..

Just felt like sharing this with ya'll.

 

One of the main reason that I tried the NA ecu is that I have read that the 88 verts. were unique in that they have a turbo compatible ecu. I get the part about the AFM possibly maxing out, but turbo or not so far my ecu is reading air and fuel and making corrections accordingly. There are a million RX-7 out there and I knew that I was not the first person to do anything I have done so far, on the contrary, EVERYTHING I have done I have only tried after reading how some others before me say that they have done it or it has been done before by someone.
I am not claiming to invent the wheel, but there are MANY people who will swear all day that you could never drive a TII motor with the NA stuff, and I just wanted to share that at safe low boost levels it is working fine for me. This is not my first turbo car, motor swap or harness/ECU swap and I fully know that at higher boost levels this setup would crap out quickly and lean out my motor causing bad detonation very fast. I just figure that rather than pay hundreds for a used TII harness/ECU I will just buy a microtech when I am ready for some real boosting fun.
Lets not forget people like Aaron Cake and others who have boosted NA cars without ECU swaps. The old NA supercharger kits used the original everything with only some people beefing up the fuel systems for safety.

Also, I have not advised anyone, newbies or others in any of the things I have done to my car, outside of my headlight mods and remote start alarm stuff. As far as the motor stuff there are many other people here who know more than me about these cars and I let them answer questions about what is best to do. But I am not going to hide my experiences for fear a newbie will try to run 20 lbs. of boost on a tired NA fuel system. Once again I am at stock boost and not planning to go higher without some other mods first.

 

Thanks, I will probably stop by soon and try that.

 

Supposedly so, yes. You didn't say that earlier, and I wasn't thinking about this being a convertible with the n338 ecu. My bad; you *should* be fine with that ecu. It should be noted that any other NA ecu (n326/7, n350/1/2) would not be acceptable here.

There probably are a few. I for one have told many people that the NA ecu, afm, pressure sensor, wiring harness, injectors, etc. will start, run, and drive a turbo engine no problem; it's just above atmospheric where problems pile up in a hurry. So, for troubleshooting, or for initial startup this setup is fine; however, since I do a lot of advising to people on this forum and elsewhere, and do a lot of comprehensive writeups for the masses, I can't go around saying that very much, or it will confuse the dumbasses out there. They will think that "start, run, and light driving" means "okay to run it this way until I can afford more", even if they want to do some WOT runs against a cibic at a redlight.

Thats a very good line of thinking as long as you can control your foot

Aaron is the only person I am aware of that has a still-running car. I have personally rebuilt several na/turbo hybrid engines in the short time I have been doing work for the public (2.5 yr.).

 

So that vert ECU also runs TII 'style' AFM/MAP sensors?

IIRC, Aarons N/A->Turbo motor was 'getting tired' or something and is now getting rebuilt?

Correct me if im wrong Aaron cake.