Taking a interest in tuning
12-02-13, 08:55 AM
#1
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Taking a interest in tuning
Like the title reads im starting to take real interest in tuning. eventually I would like get and aftermarket ECU eventually, but the shops in my area want nothing to do with rotaries. So I need some direction does anyone have sources or links that they recommend. just to give a bit more information when the times comes to choose a new ECU Im leaning towards Apexi Power FC (personal preference on that) So any information regarding this unit will help me. Im well aware of the other ECUs out there with that said please don't comment and say just get a rtek XXX or haltech XXX. Thank you
--David
--David
12-02-13, 10:31 AM
#2
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first, tuning is tuning, its all about making the engine, or cat happy. there are plenty of books on the subject. there are TONS of posts on here too, but sometimes its spotty. giving the engine the right fuel and timing, is universal, this is what ALL ecu, or carb systems try to do.
second, since we have to pick ecu's, you have to choose one, and then learn how to use this. the PFC is really nice in this respect, as its been around so long its very well known. it also comes with a map on it, that runs the car pretty well, unlike say a haltech which doesn't.
so you have two things to learn, how to tune the engine, and how to use the ECU. additionally its kind of nice to start on an NA, as detonation isn't as much of a problem as it is with the turbo cars
second, since we have to pick ecu's, you have to choose one, and then learn how to use this. the PFC is really nice in this respect, as its been around so long its very well known. it also comes with a map on it, that runs the car pretty well, unlike say a haltech which doesn't.
so you have two things to learn, how to tune the engine, and how to use the ECU. additionally its kind of nice to start on an NA, as detonation isn't as much of a problem as it is with the turbo cars
12-02-13, 01:15 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
first, tuning is tuning, its all about making the engine, or cat happy. there are plenty of books on the subject. there are TONS of posts on here too, but sometimes its spotty. giving the engine the right fuel and timing, is universal, this is what ALL ecu, or carb systems try to do.
second, since we have to pick ecu's, you have to choose one, and then learn how to use this. the PFC is really nice in this respect, as its been around so long its very well known. it also comes with a map on it, that runs the car pretty well, unlike say a haltech which doesn't.
so you have two things to learn, how to tune the engine, and how to use the ECU. additionally its kind of nice to start on an NA, as detonation isn't as much of a problem as it is with the turbo cars
second, since we have to pick ecu's, you have to choose one, and then learn how to use this. the PFC is really nice in this respect, as its been around so long its very well known. it also comes with a map on it, that runs the car pretty well, unlike say a haltech which doesn't.
so you have two things to learn, how to tune the engine, and how to use the ECU. additionally its kind of nice to start on an NA, as detonation isn't as much of a problem as it is with the turbo cars
12-02-13, 02:41 PM
#4
Like the title reads im starting to take real interest in tuning. eventually I would like get and aftermarket ECU eventually, but the shops in my area want nothing to do with rotaries. So I need some direction does anyone have sources or links that they recommend. just to give a bit more information when the times comes to choose a new ECU Im leaning towards Apexi Power FC (personal preference on that) So any information regarding this unit will help me. Im well aware of the other ECUs out there with that said please don't comment and say just get a rtek XXX or haltech XXX. Thank you
--David
--David
As far as tuning, your best bet is to find out who is going to tune your car and ask them. If they are not familiar with tuning your ecu, chances are you will not have the best tune. My tuner is familiar with the PowerFC, so I choose that. It's not the best ecu and uses the stock harness which is a positive and a negative at the same time, but it's what my tuner knows in and out.
12-02-13, 03:23 PM
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Your local tuning friends can still help teach you how to tune even if they don't know anything about rotary engines. The fuel control and transients work exactly like they do on piston engines. The only difference is that you will probably want to run split ignition timing.
I recommend that you try to get hands-on help with tuning. It is too difficult to learn such a thing via a book or internet forum, and it is rather expensive to learn by blowing your engine several times. If you don't have any local tuning friends who can help you out, check your local tech schools and community colleges to see if they offer any tuning courses. There is also a traveling EFI course that you can take when it is offered near your area:
EFI University - Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning, Training and Certification
In the meantime, you can read up on the subject. The finer points can vary, but the basics are common regardless of engine type or EMS brand.
The AEM EFI Basics manual is a really good basic primer:
http://www.aemelectronics.com/files/...asics_V1.3.pdf
Other good information can be found in the Megamanual, although it is more difficult to comprehend.
MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling and Grippo ©2010
I recommend that you try to get hands-on help with tuning. It is too difficult to learn such a thing via a book or internet forum, and it is rather expensive to learn by blowing your engine several times. If you don't have any local tuning friends who can help you out, check your local tech schools and community colleges to see if they offer any tuning courses. There is also a traveling EFI course that you can take when it is offered near your area:
EFI University - Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning, Training and Certification
In the meantime, you can read up on the subject. The finer points can vary, but the basics are common regardless of engine type or EMS brand.
The AEM EFI Basics manual is a really good basic primer:
http://www.aemelectronics.com/files/...asics_V1.3.pdf
Other good information can be found in the Megamanual, although it is more difficult to comprehend.
MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling and Grippo ©2010
12-02-13, 07:27 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Chances are, there are no rotary shops near you. I got extremely lucky to have one 35 minutes away from me, the only guy in my State. You will have to drive or tow. Rotaries are so different than conventional 4 stroke piston engines, I recommend only bringing your car only to some one who works on rotaries.
As far as tuning, your best bet is to find out who is going to tune your car and ask them. If they are not familiar with tuning your ecu, chances are you will not have the best tune. My tuner is familiar with the PowerFC, so I choose that. It's not the best ecu and uses the stock harness which is a positive and a negative at the same time, but it's what my tuner knows in and out.
As far as tuning, your best bet is to find out who is going to tune your car and ask them. If they are not familiar with tuning your ecu, chances are you will not have the best tune. My tuner is familiar with the PowerFC, so I choose that. It's not the best ecu and uses the stock harness which is a positive and a negative at the same time, but it's what my tuner knows in and out.
12-02-13, 07:29 PM
#7
Full Member
Thread Starter
Your local tuning friends can still help teach you how to tune even if they don't know anything about rotary engines. The fuel control and transients work exactly like they do on piston engines. The only difference is that you will probably want to run split ignition timing.
I recommend that you try to get hands-on help with tuning. It is too difficult to learn such a thing via a book or internet forum, and it is rather expensive to learn by blowing your engine several times. If you don't have any local tuning friends who can help you out, check your local tech schools and community colleges to see if they offer any tuning courses. There is also a traveling EFI course that you can take when it is offered near your area:
EFI University - Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning, Training and Certification
In the meantime, you can read up on the subject. The finer points can vary, but the basics are common regardless of engine type or EMS brand.
The AEM EFI Basics manual is a really good basic primer:
http://www.aemelectronics.com/files/...asics_V1.3.pdf
Other good information can be found in the Megamanual, although it is more difficult to comprehend.
MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling and Grippo ©2010
I recommend that you try to get hands-on help with tuning. It is too difficult to learn such a thing via a book or internet forum, and it is rather expensive to learn by blowing your engine several times. If you don't have any local tuning friends who can help you out, check your local tech schools and community colleges to see if they offer any tuning courses. There is also a traveling EFI course that you can take when it is offered near your area:
EFI University - Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning, Training and Certification
In the meantime, you can read up on the subject. The finer points can vary, but the basics are common regardless of engine type or EMS brand.
The AEM EFI Basics manual is a really good basic primer:
http://www.aemelectronics.com/files/...asics_V1.3.pdf
Other good information can be found in the Megamanual, although it is more difficult to comprehend.
MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling and Grippo ©2010
thank you Aviator I know these will be of help to me. i will look into EFI class more. if you manage to find anything else let me know.
Trending Topics
12-02-13, 09:20 PM
#8
Full Member
Thread Starter
Started looking more into Apexi Power FC. maybe the information I found is a bit dated,but i have been reading this is a FD only product.Can anyone confirm that I would need banzai's s4 TII adapter to make this work? or has Apexi made another unit that is 2nd gen specific. the post i saw were dated back in 2008-10. Also saw a recent posting of a Apexi PFC commander manual and only the FD3S was specified nothing about the FC3S.
12-02-13, 10:02 PM
#9
all the EMSs do the same thing. they mostly just have different software and do things slightly differently. the problem is knowing what to do when you're actually tuning.
the KEY is to get a good base map, then have a veteran help you. Ludwig, BDC, and Kahren are all friends of mine, and all three of them have helped me learn so much over the past ~10 years of tuning. BDC and Kahren helped me endlessly a long time ago when i had a lot of questions about the basics, and i've been going to Ludwig with a lot of questions lately with my new FD/Haltech setup. i did a lot of tinkering (and engine blowing) back in the day, which helped me learn a LOT, but there are just things you can't possibly know without help. this is where you need the veterans.
which EMS to use really comes down to personal preference, but i can give a crash course in a few of the bigger name EMSs. i've personally owned 3 haltech E6Ks on FCs, 3 PowerFCs on 2 FDs and a RB25 S14, a Haltech E8 on an FD, a Haltech PS2000 on a 2jz SC300, and now a Haltech PS1000 on my FD. i've tinkered with AEMv2 quite a bit as well. i've also tuned about 25 rotary cars running some sort of haltech, and tuned two AEMv2 JZ cars.
AEM is great, but not for rotaries. i have helped several 1jz/2jz supra/sc300 friends over the years with their AEM or AEMv2 units, and they are great (i have only used the original AEM once or twice). the AEMv2 is a great unit that is very capable and easy to use. the AEMv2 also has very good datalogging which helps tremendously when you're trying to tune. i would probably be using an AEM if i had a 2jz/sc300/supra simply because of the plug-n-play factor and the ease/usability of the new AEMv2 software. i don't think they have an AEMv2 plug-n-play unit out for the FD yet.
PFC is old, and the datalogit software sucks (you have to buy a datalogit box to be able to do anything useful). it is however plug-n-play (which is nice if you dont have an original old crispy harness), it has a very nifty little hand controller, which you've probably seen. i'd say the hand controller is the best feature of the PFC. i personally don't like the software or the datalogging on the PowerFC. it's very capable (there are several high HP reliable rotaries on this site running PFC) and it has a sweet hand controller, but actually tuning on it sucks compared to using a Haltech or AEM. it's just a little old.
Haltech is my personal favorite. the platinum haltech stuff is lightyears ahead of PowerFC. it costs more (about 500$ more than a PFC/datalogit) but just about everything is better about it. the software is much, much nicer, it's easier to use, and it has explanations of all the functions over in the little "help" window when you click on anything. the haltech platinum stuff and the AEM stuff has similar software, but the haltech stuff, to me, seems a little more simple and clean. haltech also offers a plug-n-play "patch" harness for FCs, which you may find useful. i'm not a fan of this, as i like to make my own harnesses and not use the old 80s/90s wiring crap. again, the patch harness is available at even more cost.
Haltech also has the best datalogging, as far as i can tell. there is also a "playback mode" you can activate to show exactly what your software was showing while you were recording the datalog. so you can go back and watch what your gauges/wideband/fuel map/etc. were doing while you were recording. it is very cool. and this is in addition to the conventional datalogging/graphing that the other EMSs do as well. i am not aware of another EMS that does this currently, but maybe Motec (someone correct me if i'm wrong).
Hydra ems i used once and did not like the software, but i may be getting spoiler by my sweet haltech software. i dont think they ever made a rotary application, so this is probably irrelevant.
Motec costs too much, but it is awesome. i have not tinkered with Motec, but i have checked out the software. everyone who can afford the system raves about it though.
there is obviously a reason that all the FD guys are running PowerFCs, and that reason is that it's easy to get the car driving on it. you plug it in, load up the base map, and you're driving. you're not necessarily boosting safely, but it works out of the box. (this is also assuming the person is plugging it into a non-crispy FD engine harness).
Haltech and AEM are the biggest players for a reason. they have a lot of manpower, they have great support, and their ECUs/software are very good.
if you're going to be using an FC to start tuning on, i'd definitely get a Haltech SprintRE, which is basically a slightly watered down PS1000. if you had an FD i might say PFC, but the Haltech stuff is substantially better anyway.
the KEY is to get a good base map, then have a veteran help you. Ludwig, BDC, and Kahren are all friends of mine, and all three of them have helped me learn so much over the past ~10 years of tuning. BDC and Kahren helped me endlessly a long time ago when i had a lot of questions about the basics, and i've been going to Ludwig with a lot of questions lately with my new FD/Haltech setup. i did a lot of tinkering (and engine blowing) back in the day, which helped me learn a LOT, but there are just things you can't possibly know without help. this is where you need the veterans.
which EMS to use really comes down to personal preference, but i can give a crash course in a few of the bigger name EMSs. i've personally owned 3 haltech E6Ks on FCs, 3 PowerFCs on 2 FDs and a RB25 S14, a Haltech E8 on an FD, a Haltech PS2000 on a 2jz SC300, and now a Haltech PS1000 on my FD. i've tinkered with AEMv2 quite a bit as well. i've also tuned about 25 rotary cars running some sort of haltech, and tuned two AEMv2 JZ cars.
AEM is great, but not for rotaries. i have helped several 1jz/2jz supra/sc300 friends over the years with their AEM or AEMv2 units, and they are great (i have only used the original AEM once or twice). the AEMv2 is a great unit that is very capable and easy to use. the AEMv2 also has very good datalogging which helps tremendously when you're trying to tune. i would probably be using an AEM if i had a 2jz/sc300/supra simply because of the plug-n-play factor and the ease/usability of the new AEMv2 software. i don't think they have an AEMv2 plug-n-play unit out for the FD yet.
PFC is old, and the datalogit software sucks (you have to buy a datalogit box to be able to do anything useful). it is however plug-n-play (which is nice if you dont have an original old crispy harness), it has a very nifty little hand controller, which you've probably seen. i'd say the hand controller is the best feature of the PFC. i personally don't like the software or the datalogging on the PowerFC. it's very capable (there are several high HP reliable rotaries on this site running PFC) and it has a sweet hand controller, but actually tuning on it sucks compared to using a Haltech or AEM. it's just a little old.
Haltech is my personal favorite. the platinum haltech stuff is lightyears ahead of PowerFC. it costs more (about 500$ more than a PFC/datalogit) but just about everything is better about it. the software is much, much nicer, it's easier to use, and it has explanations of all the functions over in the little "help" window when you click on anything. the haltech platinum stuff and the AEM stuff has similar software, but the haltech stuff, to me, seems a little more simple and clean. haltech also offers a plug-n-play "patch" harness for FCs, which you may find useful. i'm not a fan of this, as i like to make my own harnesses and not use the old 80s/90s wiring crap. again, the patch harness is available at even more cost.
Haltech also has the best datalogging, as far as i can tell. there is also a "playback mode" you can activate to show exactly what your software was showing while you were recording the datalog. so you can go back and watch what your gauges/wideband/fuel map/etc. were doing while you were recording. it is very cool. and this is in addition to the conventional datalogging/graphing that the other EMSs do as well. i am not aware of another EMS that does this currently, but maybe Motec (someone correct me if i'm wrong).
Hydra ems i used once and did not like the software, but i may be getting spoiler by my sweet haltech software. i dont think they ever made a rotary application, so this is probably irrelevant.
Motec costs too much, but it is awesome. i have not tinkered with Motec, but i have checked out the software. everyone who can afford the system raves about it though.
there is obviously a reason that all the FD guys are running PowerFCs, and that reason is that it's easy to get the car driving on it. you plug it in, load up the base map, and you're driving. you're not necessarily boosting safely, but it works out of the box. (this is also assuming the person is plugging it into a non-crispy FD engine harness).
Haltech and AEM are the biggest players for a reason. they have a lot of manpower, they have great support, and their ECUs/software are very good.
if you're going to be using an FC to start tuning on, i'd definitely get a Haltech SprintRE, which is basically a slightly watered down PS1000. if you had an FD i might say PFC, but the Haltech stuff is substantially better anyway.
12-02-13, 10:03 PM
#10
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Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
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The PFC is not made for the FC RX-7. Here is the link to the Banzai adapter kits:
86-91 RX-7 Engine Management
86-91 RX-7 Engine Management
12-03-13, 07:47 AM
#11
Full Member
Thread Starter
all the EMSs do the same thing. they mostly just have different software and do things slightly differently. the problem is knowing what to do when you're actually tuning.
the KEY is to get a good base map, then have a veteran help you. Ludwig, BDC, and Kahren are all friends of mine, and all three of them have helped me learn so much over the past ~10 years of tuning. BDC and Kahren helped me endlessly a long time ago when i had a lot of questions about the basics, and i've been going to Ludwig with a lot of questions lately with my new FD/Haltech setup. i did a lot of tinkering (and engine blowing) back in the day, which helped me learn a LOT, but there are just things you can't possibly know without help. this is where you need the veterans.
which EMS to use really comes down to personal preference, but i can give a crash course in a few of the bigger name EMSs. i've personally owned 3 haltech E6Ks on FCs, 3 PowerFCs on 2 FDs and a RB25 S14, a Haltech E8 on an FD, a Haltech PS2000 on a 2jz SC300, and now a Haltech PS1000 on my FD. i've tinkered with AEMv2 quite a bit as well. i've also tuned about 25 rotary cars running some sort of haltech, and tuned two AEMv2 JZ cars.
AEM is great, but not for rotaries. i have helped several 1jz/2jz supra/sc300 friends over the years with their AEM or AEMv2 units, and they are great (i have only used the original AEM once or twice). the AEMv2 is a great unit that is very capable and easy to use. the AEMv2 also has very good datalogging which helps tremendously when you're trying to tune. i would probably be using an AEM if i had a 2jz/sc300/supra simply because of the plug-n-play factor and the ease/usability of the new AEMv2 software. i don't think they have an AEMv2 plug-n-play unit out for the FD yet.
PFC is old, and the datalogit software sucks (you have to buy a datalogit box to be able to do anything useful). it is however plug-n-play (which is nice if you dont have an original old crispy harness), it has a very nifty little hand controller, which you've probably seen. i'd say the hand controller is the best feature of the PFC. i personally don't like the software or the datalogging on the PowerFC. it's very capable (there are several high HP reliable rotaries on this site running PFC) and it has a sweet hand controller, but actually tuning on it sucks compared to using a Haltech or AEM. it's just a little old.
Haltech is my personal favorite. the platinum haltech stuff is lightyears ahead of PowerFC. it costs more (about 500$ more than a PFC/datalogit) but just about everything is better about it. the software is much, much nicer, it's easier to use, and it has explanations of all the functions over in the little "help" window when you click on anything. the haltech platinum stuff and the AEM stuff has similar software, but the haltech stuff, to me, seems a little more simple and clean. haltech also offers a plug-n-play "patch" harness for FCs, which you may find useful. i'm not a fan of this, as i like to make my own harnesses and not use the old 80s/90s wiring crap. again, the patch harness is available at even more cost.
Haltech also has the best datalogging, as far as i can tell. there is also a "playback mode" you can activate to show exactly what your software was showing while you were recording the datalog. so you can go back and watch what your gauges/wideband/fuel map/etc. were doing while you were recording. it is very cool. and this is in addition to the conventional datalogging/graphing that the other EMSs do as well. i am not aware of another EMS that does this currently, but maybe Motec (someone correct me if i'm wrong).
Hydra ems i used once and did not like the software, but i may be getting spoiler by my sweet haltech software. i dont think they ever made a rotary application, so this is probably irrelevant.
Motec costs too much, but it is awesome. i have not tinkered with Motec, but i have checked out the software. everyone who can afford the system raves about it though.
there is obviously a reason that all the FD guys are running PowerFCs, and that reason is that it's easy to get the car driving on it. you plug it in, load up the base map, and you're driving. you're not necessarily boosting safely, but it works out of the box. (this is also assuming the person is plugging it into a non-crispy FD engine harness).
Haltech and AEM are the biggest players for a reason. they have a lot of manpower, they have great support, and their ECUs/software are very good.
if you're going to be using an FC to start tuning on, i'd definitely get a Haltech SprintRE, which is basically a slightly watered down PS1000. if you had an FD i might say PFC, but the Haltech stuff is substantially better anyway.
the KEY is to get a good base map, then have a veteran help you. Ludwig, BDC, and Kahren are all friends of mine, and all three of them have helped me learn so much over the past ~10 years of tuning. BDC and Kahren helped me endlessly a long time ago when i had a lot of questions about the basics, and i've been going to Ludwig with a lot of questions lately with my new FD/Haltech setup. i did a lot of tinkering (and engine blowing) back in the day, which helped me learn a LOT, but there are just things you can't possibly know without help. this is where you need the veterans.
which EMS to use really comes down to personal preference, but i can give a crash course in a few of the bigger name EMSs. i've personally owned 3 haltech E6Ks on FCs, 3 PowerFCs on 2 FDs and a RB25 S14, a Haltech E8 on an FD, a Haltech PS2000 on a 2jz SC300, and now a Haltech PS1000 on my FD. i've tinkered with AEMv2 quite a bit as well. i've also tuned about 25 rotary cars running some sort of haltech, and tuned two AEMv2 JZ cars.
AEM is great, but not for rotaries. i have helped several 1jz/2jz supra/sc300 friends over the years with their AEM or AEMv2 units, and they are great (i have only used the original AEM once or twice). the AEMv2 is a great unit that is very capable and easy to use. the AEMv2 also has very good datalogging which helps tremendously when you're trying to tune. i would probably be using an AEM if i had a 2jz/sc300/supra simply because of the plug-n-play factor and the ease/usability of the new AEMv2 software. i don't think they have an AEMv2 plug-n-play unit out for the FD yet.
PFC is old, and the datalogit software sucks (you have to buy a datalogit box to be able to do anything useful). it is however plug-n-play (which is nice if you dont have an original old crispy harness), it has a very nifty little hand controller, which you've probably seen. i'd say the hand controller is the best feature of the PFC. i personally don't like the software or the datalogging on the PowerFC. it's very capable (there are several high HP reliable rotaries on this site running PFC) and it has a sweet hand controller, but actually tuning on it sucks compared to using a Haltech or AEM. it's just a little old.
Haltech is my personal favorite. the platinum haltech stuff is lightyears ahead of PowerFC. it costs more (about 500$ more than a PFC/datalogit) but just about everything is better about it. the software is much, much nicer, it's easier to use, and it has explanations of all the functions over in the little "help" window when you click on anything. the haltech platinum stuff and the AEM stuff has similar software, but the haltech stuff, to me, seems a little more simple and clean. haltech also offers a plug-n-play "patch" harness for FCs, which you may find useful. i'm not a fan of this, as i like to make my own harnesses and not use the old 80s/90s wiring crap. again, the patch harness is available at even more cost.
Haltech also has the best datalogging, as far as i can tell. there is also a "playback mode" you can activate to show exactly what your software was showing while you were recording the datalog. so you can go back and watch what your gauges/wideband/fuel map/etc. were doing while you were recording. it is very cool. and this is in addition to the conventional datalogging/graphing that the other EMSs do as well. i am not aware of another EMS that does this currently, but maybe Motec (someone correct me if i'm wrong).
Hydra ems i used once and did not like the software, but i may be getting spoiler by my sweet haltech software. i dont think they ever made a rotary application, so this is probably irrelevant.
Motec costs too much, but it is awesome. i have not tinkered with Motec, but i have checked out the software. everyone who can afford the system raves about it though.
there is obviously a reason that all the FD guys are running PowerFCs, and that reason is that it's easy to get the car driving on it. you plug it in, load up the base map, and you're driving. you're not necessarily boosting safely, but it works out of the box. (this is also assuming the person is plugging it into a non-crispy FD engine harness).
Haltech and AEM are the biggest players for a reason. they have a lot of manpower, they have great support, and their ECUs/software are very good.
if you're going to be using an FC to start tuning on, i'd definitely get a Haltech SprintRE, which is basically a slightly watered down PS1000. if you had an FD i might say PFC, but the Haltech stuff is substantially better anyway.
12-03-13, 08:05 AM
#12
Full Member
Thread Starter
The PFC is not made for the FC RX-7. Here is the link to the Banzai adapter kits:
86-91 RX-7 Engine Management
86-91 RX-7 Engine Management
12-03-13, 08:54 AM
#13
Full Member
Thread Starter
found this while looking more into the PFC. thoughts on this write up?
http://www.psiparts.com.au/downloads...%20Install.pdf
http://www.psiparts.com.au/downloads...%20Install.pdf
12-03-13, 04:02 PM
#14
there is also adaptronic, which is very capable (and Turblown has been non-stop marketing the bejesus out of them). i'm surprised elliot's not already in here promoting adaptronic.i have not used adaptronic, but i am interested it in. i would like to tinker with one.
it can do VE tuning with staged injection, which is cool, but i've never really had a problem tuning with milliseconds. this usually isnt a problem if you can start with a good base map. the software looks like it's from the mid-90s, which is a little strange (as it's a relatively NEW system). i'd also be a little concerned that Andy seems to be a 1-2 man operation, and i wonder how he will do long-term trying to compete with big(biggER) companies like Haltech and AEM. Andy does have some good YouTube videos explaining a lot of the features and how to setup some different things, but it's obvious that he's a smaller operation that doesn't have as much investment/manpower as the others (but this could be a good thing). all that being said, i am quite interested in the adaptronics, and Andy is filling a nice pricepoint void in the RX7/rotary world, basically (seemingly) trying to be a plug-n-play alternative (replacement?) to the super old PowerFCs.
there's also Megasquirt, which i forgot to mention above. i do not like MS. i was not using the newest version when i tinkered with this (admittedly, only one time), but me and my buddy got the feeling that you needed to deeply understand triggers, ignition, and rotaries, etc. to even get the car started and driving, which is daunting for someone who is just getting started with EMSs. i've used several EMSs over the years and i was even a little intimidated by it.
yes, feel free to message me. i wouldnt mind helping and/or giving some advice. (take it with a grain of salt though, as i'm not professional --and never claimed to be)
it can do VE tuning with staged injection, which is cool, but i've never really had a problem tuning with milliseconds. this usually isnt a problem if you can start with a good base map. the software looks like it's from the mid-90s, which is a little strange (as it's a relatively NEW system). i'd also be a little concerned that Andy seems to be a 1-2 man operation, and i wonder how he will do long-term trying to compete with big(biggER) companies like Haltech and AEM. Andy does have some good YouTube videos explaining a lot of the features and how to setup some different things, but it's obvious that he's a smaller operation that doesn't have as much investment/manpower as the others (but this could be a good thing). all that being said, i am quite interested in the adaptronics, and Andy is filling a nice pricepoint void in the RX7/rotary world, basically (seemingly) trying to be a plug-n-play alternative (replacement?) to the super old PowerFCs.
there's also Megasquirt, which i forgot to mention above. i do not like MS. i was not using the newest version when i tinkered with this (admittedly, only one time), but me and my buddy got the feeling that you needed to deeply understand triggers, ignition, and rotaries, etc. to even get the car started and driving, which is daunting for someone who is just getting started with EMSs. i've used several EMSs over the years and i was even a little intimidated by it.
yes, feel free to message me. i wouldnt mind helping and/or giving some advice. (take it with a grain of salt though, as i'm not professional --and never claimed to be)
12-03-13, 04:24 PM
#15
found this while looking more into the PFC. thoughts on this write up?
http://www.psiparts.com.au/downloads...%20Install.pdf
http://www.psiparts.com.au/downloads...%20Install.pdf
i would personally not recommend doing a PowerFC in an FC, only because it's not a complete PLUG-N-PLAY option, which removes about 50% of the allure of a PowerFC. if it hadn't been plug-n-play for FDs, no one on this forum would have bought it.
and really, the thing that most people find confusing is the trigger and ignition settings; that PDF you linked to above is quite simple until you get to the trigger/ignition section (and that guy is using vampire clips and HOT GLUE for the igniter instead of using a mazda connector. WTF) and honestly, the whole finished setup kind of looks like a cluster F. i wouldn't attempt something like this unless maybe you get the PFC for free.
i think the thing that helps the MOST is starting from scratch with something like a Haltech SprintRE with a long flying lead harness. you mount the ECU, pull the harness through a firewall grommet, drape the wires over the engine, arrange everything how you want it, then cut the wires to length, sleeve everything, pretty it up, make sure it's all right, then terminate the ends with some nice new connectors and good terminal crimpers. then you focus all your efforts on following a setup guide and using a good base map (if you buy a haltech through Ludwig he can supply a good base map) to get the car running. then you zero the timing and get started with the tuning.
i think this is the best way to do things because you have to know how everything works; you run all the wires, and you know everything is correct, and you are forced to get a deeper understanding of the car before you dive into the software. people are quick to plug in a PFC/datalogit and just go to town tuning (especially FD guys) and blow their engines because their crispy wiring harness had a half broken injector power wire that would occasionally stop firing while at full boost, or something. if you have a tuning issue, like the car starts consistently misfiring out of nowhere, you know what to do. the fuel pump doesnt trigger when you turn the key, you know what to do, etc.
check out the user on this forum Kiku. he had a build thread in the FD section using a Haltech SprintRE. he basically started as a clueless college kid who wanted to tinker and learn EMSs, and he ended up doing a great job and got his car running and boosting... (then i think he had a water seal go out)
12-03-13, 05:43 PM
#16
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adaptronic, but i am interested it in. the software looks like it's from the mid-90s, which is a little strange
there's also Megasquirt, which is daunting for someone who is just getting started with EMSs. i've used several EMSs over the years and i was even a little intimidated by it.
there's also Megasquirt, which is daunting for someone who is just getting started with EMSs. i've used several EMSs over the years and i was even a little intimidated by it.
and megasquirt seems like it works just fine, its just that figuring out what you need is daunting as the manual/FAQ is the densest thing i've ever tried to read
12-03-13, 05:54 PM
#17
I know the motec can switch load sensing from the tps to the maps based on boost. . I understand this makes it best for the street. From what I can tell its worth the extra $1000.
I'm not a experienced EFI tuner but have read a few good books. Idk if the haltech or any of the others can do this.
Anyone more experienced please comment.
Biggest problem with rotaries is people going cheap. My future is a motec and pro-jay setup. It is not cheap.
If I were to go cheap I always wanted to try the SDS
Simple digital Systems. And you can do ignition if you don't use the trailing system. Don't over look rtech either.
I'm not a experienced EFI tuner but have read a few good books. Idk if the haltech or any of the others can do this.
Anyone more experienced please comment.
Biggest problem with rotaries is people going cheap. My future is a motec and pro-jay setup. It is not cheap.
If I were to go cheap I always wanted to try the SDS
Simple digital Systems. And you can do ignition if you don't use the trailing system. Don't over look rtech either.
Last edited by ghost1000; 12-03-13 at 06:12 PM.
12-03-13, 07:31 PM
#18
A beginner, and most people for that matter of fact need an easy ecu to tune, and a one with very good tech support.
Take a look around at the videos on their page for more information( will help you even if you pick a different brand)...
https://www.youtube.com/user/AdaptronicECU/videos
Take a look around at the videos on their page for more information( will help you even if you pick a different brand)...
https://www.youtube.com/user/AdaptronicECU/videos
12-04-13, 09:07 AM
#19
Engine, Not Motor
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MegaSquirt was mentioned so I thought I'd chime in.
Having used almost every ECU out there (Adaptronic and PowerFC I have never touched), the MegaSquirt has the best datalogging by a wide margin. No coincidence then that it has the best autotune features both real time and based on recorded datalogs. That is a real benefit to the beginning tuner because it allows them to get their car drivable in a short period while still observing how the VE table is tuned. Autotune can also apply to warmup enrichment with the latest version of TunerStudio, again a sticking point for many beginners.
Long gone are the days when running a MegaSquirt requires hardware mods. MS3X only requires you to open the box and set a few jumpers to the correct trigger capture settings. Going further, but paying more for the privilege, MS3-Pro will wire directly to a rotary without the need to open the box (though you can open it if you want to insert a battery for the real-time clock as used by the SD card data logging). MS3-Pro sells at just over $1200, MS3X is cheaper (same software features) at around $600 - $800 (fully assembled).
DIYAutoTune has the MegaSquirt settings fully documented so all you need to do is copy them from their website.
How to MegaSquirt your FC RX-7
I have a writeup covering MS1 and MS2 installs (currently working on updating it for MS3X) here:
How To Megasquirt Your 2nd Gen RX-7
I also have a (1 hour long) video fully covering the installation of an MS3-Pro on my '76 Cosmo:
Now I may be biased, but I do believe that MegaSquirt represents simply the best value of any ECU out there AS LONG AS you accept you will be getting support from a community rather than a company. It's very well documented on the rotary and if you stick with recent versions, is no more complicated than any other ECU to install and set up. If you REALLY want to learn tuning, MegaSquirt is the way to go in my opinion.
The owners of DIYAutoTune also have a book "Performance Fuel Injection" which is an excellent intro to tuning:
Whatever you do, don't even go near the Microtech with a 10 foot pole for fear it will transport you back into the late '90s from whence it came.
Almost every single ECU out there can do this, including a $200 MS1.
I'll save you the trouble: the SDS is quite possibly the worst EMS every built. I'd rather have an ancient dial based Haltech.
Having used almost every ECU out there (Adaptronic and PowerFC I have never touched), the MegaSquirt has the best datalogging by a wide margin. No coincidence then that it has the best autotune features both real time and based on recorded datalogs. That is a real benefit to the beginning tuner because it allows them to get their car drivable in a short period while still observing how the VE table is tuned. Autotune can also apply to warmup enrichment with the latest version of TunerStudio, again a sticking point for many beginners.
Long gone are the days when running a MegaSquirt requires hardware mods. MS3X only requires you to open the box and set a few jumpers to the correct trigger capture settings. Going further, but paying more for the privilege, MS3-Pro will wire directly to a rotary without the need to open the box (though you can open it if you want to insert a battery for the real-time clock as used by the SD card data logging). MS3-Pro sells at just over $1200, MS3X is cheaper (same software features) at around $600 - $800 (fully assembled).
DIYAutoTune has the MegaSquirt settings fully documented so all you need to do is copy them from their website.
How to MegaSquirt your FC RX-7
I have a writeup covering MS1 and MS2 installs (currently working on updating it for MS3X) here:
How To Megasquirt Your 2nd Gen RX-7
I also have a (1 hour long) video fully covering the installation of an MS3-Pro on my '76 Cosmo:
Now I may be biased, but I do believe that MegaSquirt represents simply the best value of any ECU out there AS LONG AS you accept you will be getting support from a community rather than a company. It's very well documented on the rotary and if you stick with recent versions, is no more complicated than any other ECU to install and set up. If you REALLY want to learn tuning, MegaSquirt is the way to go in my opinion.
The owners of DIYAutoTune also have a book "Performance Fuel Injection" which is an excellent intro to tuning:
Whatever you do, don't even go near the Microtech with a 10 foot pole for fear it will transport you back into the late '90s from whence it came.
I know the motec can switch load sensing from the tps to the maps based on boost. . I understand this makes it best for the street. From what I can tell its worth the extra $1000.
I'm not a experienced EFI tuner but have read a few good books. Idk if the haltech or any of the others can do this.
I'm not a experienced EFI tuner but have read a few good books. Idk if the haltech or any of the others can do this.
If I were to go cheap I always wanted to try the SDS
Simple digital Systems. And you can do ignition if you don't use the trailing system.
Simple digital Systems. And you can do ignition if you don't use the trailing system.
12-04-13, 01:16 PM
#20
Having used almost every ECU out there (Adaptronic and PowerFC I have never touched), the MegaSquirt has the best datalogging by a wide margin. No coincidence then that it has the best autotune features both real time and based on recorded datalogs. That is a real benefit to the beginning tuner because it allows them to get their car drivable in a short period while still observing how the VE table is tuned. Autotune can also apply to warmup enrichment with the latest version of TunerStudio, again a sticking point for many beginners.
have you used the haltech platinums? their datalogging and playback mode is amazing. i can't imagine that the megalogger is better than this.
also, slightly off-topic here, but Aaron, i googled the MS3 stuff (it's been a while) and i saw some people running the megalogger in Ubuntu. do you know if the MS stuff will run on a non-x86 processor? that is SWEET that it runs in linux, but what about on a non-x86 processor?
12-04-13, 01:51 PM
#21
Look up some posts by Arghx
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...needed-841706/ This is a great beginning thread ,
also Arghx , has a tunning group on yahoo which has a ton of information regarding tuning for rotaries .
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...needed-841706/ This is a great beginning thread ,
also Arghx , has a tunning group on yahoo which has a ton of information regarding tuning for rotaries .
12-04-13, 02:32 PM
#22
and also read through the standalone section, there will be random posts about different aspects of tuning.
i haven't seen anything all compiled into one nice neat place and i personally don't plan to do it because:
a) i've already done the difficult part, breaking engines in order to learn
and
b) it takes time, when we've already spent time learning to give that information out freely to others in bits and pieces, so do your homework.
some people just have little choice, in which case you should become familiar with building engines first and then move on to naturally aspirated tuning followed by turbo engine tuning in small steps.
i haven't seen anything all compiled into one nice neat place and i personally don't plan to do it because:
a) i've already done the difficult part, breaking engines in order to learn
and
b) it takes time, when we've already spent time learning to give that information out freely to others in bits and pieces, so do your homework.
some people just have little choice, in which case you should become familiar with building engines first and then move on to naturally aspirated tuning followed by turbo engine tuning in small steps.
12-07-13, 09:54 AM
#23
Engine, Not Motor
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Working on my Cosmo mostly but a lot of life things have been interfering with it lately. Haven't been on the forum much as it turns out that editing the Cosmo videos are taking much of the time I spend using a computer (for non work-related activities).As for datalogging, MegaLogViewer has had playback mode for a very long time. I remember playing back logs on the VE, AFR and spark tables in the mid 2000s. And using that info to autotune within MegaLogViewer. The newest version adds far more features including composite trigger logging, scatter plots of all data, etc. However I find myself using MegaLogViewer far less now that many of the autotune features are built into TunerStudio.
Yep, I've used the recent Haltechs. One thing which sours me is the poor autotune. Maybe I'm just lazy in my old age but I'd much rather have the ECU tune the non-critical areas of the VE table.
i forgot to mention that i had a bad experience with microtech as well. and only saw one car running SDS. i am with Aaron on these. the general consensus is that SDS is terrible.
also, slightly off-topic here, but Aaron, i googled the MS3 stuff (it's been a while) and i saw some people running the megalogger in Ubuntu. do you know if the MS stuff will run on a non-x86 processor? that is SWEET that it runs in linux, but what about on a non-x86 processor?
Megasquirt MSEXTRA / MS3EFI • Tuning Software (View forum)
I know there are Android versions which presumably run on ARM.
12-07-13, 02:54 PM
#24
i played around with the PS1k autotune feature and i wasn't exactly thrilled with it, it is extremely lazy to respond and many other tables interact poorly with it. i had to turn off a number of functions to even get it to somewhat do its job, it's still rather clunky.
12-07-13, 06:02 PM
#25
A lot of beginners get tripped up with wiring and setting up all the hardware settings in the ECU before they every actually tune the thing. For that reason I recommend a plug and play solution f or those new to tuning. Otherwise it can get overwhelming.
Likewise Some people are really good with the wiring and hardware side but control logic and mapping isn't their thing. Rarely will you find a situation where a new person can both wire up a standalone and successfully tune a turbo car. You have to turn down the difficulty in some way.
Likewise Some people are really good with the wiring and hardware side but control logic and mapping isn't their thing. Rarely will you find a situation where a new person can both wire up a standalone and successfully tune a turbo car. You have to turn down the difficulty in some way.