T2 swap and no power with ignition..
03-17-09, 07:45 AM
#1
T2 swap and no power with ignition..
Just finishd doing my t2 swap n333 ecu and t2 harness, and i hav absolutely no power wen i turn the ignition to on...
car is a s4 na chassis and everything workd perfect b4 the swap.. I did cut into the t2 harness to remove emission wires that were no longer needed due to rats nest removal ect....
I double checked all my grounds and they are grounded properly cuz i do have headlights, dash lights, ect... Just no power to any part of the engine...
Anyone know how i can trouble shoot this problem?
car is a s4 na chassis and everything workd perfect b4 the swap.. I did cut into the t2 harness to remove emission wires that were no longer needed due to rats nest removal ect....
I double checked all my grounds and they are grounded properly cuz i do have headlights, dash lights, ect... Just no power to any part of the engine...
Anyone know how i can trouble shoot this problem?
03-17-09, 10:37 AM
#2
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Blew the ENGINE fuse due to the miswiring b/t the tubo EM harness and Front harness.
Or........can you confirm the Main Relay is pulling in?
Or ......if you jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and put the key to ON, does the fuel pump run? It also depends on the engine fuse being good.
Can you confirm batt voltage at the fuel injector wires on the small ECU plug? Can you verify batt voltage on the black/white and wire on the small ECU plug along with the other wire just above or is it below it? One is powered by the BTN fuse and the black/white by the Main Relay.
What did you do for power to the small plug on the alternator?
And are both EGI fuses good or not?
Or........can you confirm the Main Relay is pulling in?
Or ......if you jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and put the key to ON, does the fuel pump run? It also depends on the engine fuse being good.
Can you confirm batt voltage at the fuel injector wires on the small ECU plug? Can you verify batt voltage on the black/white and wire on the small ECU plug along with the other wire just above or is it below it? One is powered by the BTN fuse and the black/white by the Main Relay.
What did you do for power to the small plug on the alternator?
And are both EGI fuses good or not?
03-17-09, 09:56 PM
#4
Blew the ENGINE fuse due to the miswiring b/t the tubo EM harness and Front harness.
Or........can you confirm the Main Relay is pulling in?
How can i confirm the main relay is working? I do have a spare..
Or ......if you jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and put the key to ON, does the fuel pump run? It also depends on the engine fuse being good.
I will try this wen i get home and let ya know.
Can you confirm batt voltage at the fuel injector wires on the small ECU plug? Can you verify batt voltage on the black/white and wire on the small ECU plug along with the other wire just above or is it below it? One is powered by the BTN fuse and the black/white by the Main Relay.
I did wire in a afc neo.. I used connectors and did not solder em together, i cud have a bad connecton here?
What did you do for power to the small plug on the alternator?
I have a fd alternator and ran the botom plug to the + on battery terminal
And are both EGI fuses good or not?
Or........can you confirm the Main Relay is pulling in?
How can i confirm the main relay is working? I do have a spare..
Or ......if you jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and put the key to ON, does the fuel pump run? It also depends on the engine fuse being good.
I will try this wen i get home and let ya know.
Can you confirm batt voltage at the fuel injector wires on the small ECU plug? Can you verify batt voltage on the black/white and wire on the small ECU plug along with the other wire just above or is it below it? One is powered by the BTN fuse and the black/white by the Main Relay.
I did wire in a afc neo.. I used connectors and did not solder em together, i cud have a bad connecton here?
What did you do for power to the small plug on the alternator?
I have a fd alternator and ran the botom plug to the + on battery terminal
And are both EGI fuses good or not?
thanks for the input i really appreatiate it...
thks jason...
03-17-09, 10:07 PM
#5
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Let's say you know where the Main relay is. So, pull the positive cable off the battery. Turn the key to ON. Put your hand on the main relay while at the same time putting the battery positive cable back on. You should hear/feel the main relay pull in when the positive cable for the battery is put on.
Pull the smal plug off the ECU. With the key ON, see if you have batt power to each of the wires I underlined in RED in the attached jpg. Should. IF not at all, which does not have power?
That's with the small plug off the ECU, and looking at the small plug from the WIRE side of the plug. I'm saying that jpg attached is looking from the wire side of the connector.
And like the fellow a couple of posts above mentioned, make sure both ORANGE plugs on the EM harness are plugged in. They have a name. X-15 and X-16.
The ENGINE fuse is in the interior fuse box and that box is shown in the FAQ thread on this site. Shows where each fuse is in that box.
Pull the smal plug off the ECU. With the key ON, see if you have batt power to each of the wires I underlined in RED in the attached jpg. Should. IF not at all, which does not have power?
That's with the small plug off the ECU, and looking at the small plug from the WIRE side of the plug. I'm saying that jpg attached is looking from the wire side of the connector.
And like the fellow a couple of posts above mentioned, make sure both ORANGE plugs on the EM harness are plugged in. They have a name. X-15 and X-16.
The ENGINE fuse is in the interior fuse box and that box is shown in the FAQ thread on this site. Shows where each fuse is in that box.
03-20-09, 01:45 AM
#6
Okay I thought i might of messed up my em harness from removing the emission wires and installing afc neo.
Installed stock unmolested T2 em harness orange connectors are pluged in. (still no power wen i turn the key to on)
Dash lights,tails,headlights, all work but radio does not....
Main engine relay does not have any kinda sound or pull wen i reconnect the battery and turn the key to on ect...
Jumpered the fuel pump check connector and i hear nothing..
all fuses under dash are good.
How does the em harness get power? Is there a connector that plugs into the battery harness or something ?
If alternator is not hooked up wud that create these problems?
Unfortunetly i am a total new wen it comes to wiring and engine work ect...
Installed stock unmolested T2 em harness orange connectors are pluged in. (still no power wen i turn the key to on)
Dash lights,tails,headlights, all work but radio does not....
Main engine relay does not have any kinda sound or pull wen i reconnect the battery and turn the key to on ect...
Jumpered the fuel pump check connector and i hear nothing..
all fuses under dash are good.
How does the em harness get power? Is there a connector that plugs into the battery harness or something ?
If alternator is not hooked up wud that create these problems?
Unfortunetly i am a total new wen it comes to wiring and engine work ect...
03-20-09, 08:13 AM
#7
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I can't help anybody that does not have a digital meter of some sort. Maybe someone else can work it out for you.
A turbo EM harness mated with a non turbo EM harness results in PROBLEMS. The pins at those two orange plugs are NOT the same for turbo and non turbo. Not a huge difference, but a diffenece that can cause PROBLEMS. IF not corrected prior to starting up the engine.
The Front harness mates with the EM harness thru the two ORANGE plugs. The Front harness carrys the power from the Main Relay to the EM harness to feed the fuel injectors and the ECU.
If you don't have or want to use a meter to find out if you have power at the ECU, then I can't help you. Whether or not you have power at the ECU, can give me a clue as to what the problem is and where the problem is. Probably others can. Not I.
The lack of the fuel pump running with the key ON and the yellow two socket connector jumpered makes me think of two things. One is that the ENGINE fuse is blown (see your interior fuse box cover or look at the FAQ thread on this forum for which fuse is which) or the Main Relay is not grounded.
To see/hear if the Main Relay is good, pull a cable off the battery. Then turn the key to ON.
Now return to the engine bay and put your hand on the Main Relay. At the same time put the battery cable on the battery. You should feel/hear the Main Relay pull in. If it pulls in, then the ENGINE fuse is good and the Main Relay is pulling in which is good.
The Main Relay will pass the batt power from the EGI fuses in the engine bay...........to the ORNAGE plugs.................to the fuel injectors and to the small plug on the ECU. IF you have no meter there's no way for you to tell if the power is getting to the ECU. You could use a test light I suppose, but how much power at the pins etc won't be known.
Another thing that might have cause the fuel pump to not work when you jumpered the yellow two socket check connector with key ON, is that you failed to attach the two wire, ring terminal ECU ground on top of the rear ROTOR housing. One of the two wires in the yellow check connector is spliced into that ring terminal.
Headlights, tail lights, headlight retactor motor dash lights, etc are all seperated from the power to run the fuel pump ECU and engine related things. Those items do NOT pass thru the MAIN RELAY. And also are not dependent on the ENGINE fuse being good/bad.
The ORANGE plugs have a reference designator (a name) on the wiring diagrams. They are called X-15 and X-16 or on some diagrams FEM-01 and FEM-02 (FEM means Front to Emissions plugs).
I can't help you if you don't have a meter. I'm going sailing, it's more fun than this.
A turbo EM harness mated with a non turbo EM harness results in PROBLEMS. The pins at those two orange plugs are NOT the same for turbo and non turbo. Not a huge difference, but a diffenece that can cause PROBLEMS. IF not corrected prior to starting up the engine.
The Front harness mates with the EM harness thru the two ORANGE plugs. The Front harness carrys the power from the Main Relay to the EM harness to feed the fuel injectors and the ECU.
If you don't have or want to use a meter to find out if you have power at the ECU, then I can't help you. Whether or not you have power at the ECU, can give me a clue as to what the problem is and where the problem is. Probably others can. Not I.
The lack of the fuel pump running with the key ON and the yellow two socket connector jumpered makes me think of two things. One is that the ENGINE fuse is blown (see your interior fuse box cover or look at the FAQ thread on this forum for which fuse is which) or the Main Relay is not grounded.
To see/hear if the Main Relay is good, pull a cable off the battery. Then turn the key to ON.
Now return to the engine bay and put your hand on the Main Relay. At the same time put the battery cable on the battery. You should feel/hear the Main Relay pull in. If it pulls in, then the ENGINE fuse is good and the Main Relay is pulling in which is good.
The Main Relay will pass the batt power from the EGI fuses in the engine bay...........to the ORNAGE plugs.................to the fuel injectors and to the small plug on the ECU. IF you have no meter there's no way for you to tell if the power is getting to the ECU. You could use a test light I suppose, but how much power at the pins etc won't be known.
Another thing that might have cause the fuel pump to not work when you jumpered the yellow two socket check connector with key ON, is that you failed to attach the two wire, ring terminal ECU ground on top of the rear ROTOR housing. One of the two wires in the yellow check connector is spliced into that ring terminal.
Headlights, tail lights, headlight retactor motor dash lights, etc are all seperated from the power to run the fuel pump ECU and engine related things. Those items do NOT pass thru the MAIN RELAY. And also are not dependent on the ENGINE fuse being good/bad.
The ORANGE plugs have a reference designator (a name) on the wiring diagrams. They are called X-15 and X-16 or on some diagrams FEM-01 and FEM-02 (FEM means Front to Emissions plugs).
I can't help you if you don't have a meter. I'm going sailing, it's more fun than this.
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03-20-09, 12:23 PM
#8
I dont know if this will help, but Ive done the same swap. I found out there was like two different kinds of s4t2 harness. One that wraps around and connects to the other short harness to the crank anglesensor, and one that has like no resistor box that is seperated from the shortside harness. Its really weird... Do you have another s4t2 harness you can try??
03-20-09, 03:48 PM
#9
I dont know if this will help, but Ive done the same swap. I found out there was like two different kinds of s4t2 harness. One that wraps around and connects to the other short harness to the crank anglesensor, and one that has like no resistor box that is seperated from the shortside harness. Its really weird... Do you have another s4t2 harness you can try??
Thanks Robert
03-20-09, 06:51 PM
#10
I first had a high iimpedence t2 harness (wired in afc neo) that i extended afm,boost sensor,thermo grn plug and varible resistor to have the harness run along fire wall and un seen. I then removed all emission wires that were not needed due to rats nest removal,twin scroll removal ect... No power with this set up so i yanked it out.
I then had another unmolested T2 harness that i hooked up with out the afc neo and still had same issue (no power)
I tripple checked all fuses underdash and they are all good and not blown, checked em with a fuse tester that lights up wen the fuses are good ect...
I do have a ghetto 3 dollar dmm, what setting should i have it on to check the small em harness plug? and with ignition on you want me to pull that plug out of ecu or test it while its still pluged in? I wasnt sure it wud get power if unpluged from the ecu...
If the alternator is not hooked up wud that make the main engine relay not get power? its only connected at the top ring terminal thats on the power/ground harness.
The ecu ground is tightend down real good on one of the housings with brand new bolt and washer for a good connection.
Im going to put in my na ecu just to see if maybe the n333 t2 ecu is bad.
Im going to post pics sunday.
I then had another unmolested T2 harness that i hooked up with out the afc neo and still had same issue (no power)
I tripple checked all fuses underdash and they are all good and not blown, checked em with a fuse tester that lights up wen the fuses are good ect...
I do have a ghetto 3 dollar dmm, what setting should i have it on to check the small em harness plug? and with ignition on you want me to pull that plug out of ecu or test it while its still pluged in? I wasnt sure it wud get power if unpluged from the ecu...
If the alternator is not hooked up wud that make the main engine relay not get power? its only connected at the top ring terminal thats on the power/ground harness.
The ecu ground is tightend down real good on one of the housings with brand new bolt and washer for a good connection.
Im going to put in my na ecu just to see if maybe the n333 t2 ecu is bad.
Im going to post pics sunday.
03-20-09, 07:45 PM
#11
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You'd pull the small plug off the ECU. You'd put the meter on volts dc.
You'd put the negative lead of the meter on a known ground point, like one of the studs that holds the ECU in place.
You'd put the key to ON, and with the small ECU plug off, check the wires in the PLUG. You'd check the wires I posted a jpg of in post #5. They should all be batt voltage. If not, which ones did not have batt voltage.
That plug powers the ECU, the ECU does not power it.
The ECU itself has nothing at all to do with the starter turning over or the fuel pump running. Zippity.
From your post #6, I'd say you don't have any power going to the ignition switch at all. The ignition switch when put to ON, sends power to the interior fuse box. It feeds the fuses I labled IG1 and Ig2 in my post #5 above. In other words the IG1 fuses are not getting power and the ENGINE fuse is on that line of fuses.
So. Make sure the single wire black connector in the attached jpg is conneted. It's about three inches below the Engine bay fuse box. IT feeds the ignition switch which in turn feeds half or more of the interior fuse box.
Also the MAIN FUSE in the engine bay fuse box has to be good.
If the MAIN FUSE is good, and the black connector is connected, then go to the ignition switch. About a foot fwd of the ignition switch are the ignition switch connectors. One connector has two wires. One is black/white and the other pure black. Pull the connector apart and see if the black wire has batt power on it. No key required. Should be there all day long.
You'd put the negative lead of the meter on a known ground point, like one of the studs that holds the ECU in place.
You'd put the key to ON, and with the small ECU plug off, check the wires in the PLUG. You'd check the wires I posted a jpg of in post #5. They should all be batt voltage. If not, which ones did not have batt voltage.
That plug powers the ECU, the ECU does not power it.
The ECU itself has nothing at all to do with the starter turning over or the fuel pump running. Zippity.
From your post #6, I'd say you don't have any power going to the ignition switch at all. The ignition switch when put to ON, sends power to the interior fuse box. It feeds the fuses I labled IG1 and Ig2 in my post #5 above. In other words the IG1 fuses are not getting power and the ENGINE fuse is on that line of fuses.
So. Make sure the single wire black connector in the attached jpg is conneted. It's about three inches below the Engine bay fuse box. IT feeds the ignition switch which in turn feeds half or more of the interior fuse box.
Also the MAIN FUSE in the engine bay fuse box has to be good.
If the MAIN FUSE is good, and the black connector is connected, then go to the ignition switch. About a foot fwd of the ignition switch are the ignition switch connectors. One connector has two wires. One is black/white and the other pure black. Pull the connector apart and see if the black wire has batt power on it. No key required. Should be there all day long.
03-20-09, 08:18 PM
#12
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I've seen quite a few swaps just not work out with a T2 harness. your stock n/a is the way to go.
I've also read about using a t2 harness you can get voltage feeding back to a ground on the pressure sensor? I tried 2 harnesses on a 88 and the leading coil wouldn't fire. n/a worked fine... go figure.
you not having power with ignition on sounds like a problem with your main harness.
I've also read about using a t2 harness you can get voltage feeding back to a ground on the pressure sensor? I tried 2 harnesses on a 88 and the leading coil wouldn't fire. n/a worked fine... go figure.
you not having power with ignition on sounds like a problem with your main harness.
03-20-09, 08:31 PM
#13
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I am doing that swap also.
I know that the TII harness needs a Wire to the Alternator from the Battery IF the car was an N/A.
If the car's N/A Engine harness IS being used then you don't need this Wire.
My suggestion is to look at other posts of the Same swap,and you will should run into your Mistake and be able to rectify it.The N/A Harness would have made your Life a hell of a lot easier.
I know that the TII harness needs a Wire to the Alternator from the Battery IF the car was an N/A.
If the car's N/A Engine harness IS being used then you don't need this Wire.
My suggestion is to look at other posts of the Same swap,and you will should run into your Mistake and be able to rectify it.The N/A Harness would have made your Life a hell of a lot easier.
03-21-09, 09:21 AM
#14
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If you use a turbo EM harness and connect it to the non turbo FRONT harness, then the boost/pressure sensors output wire will now travel to the ENGINE fuse. The boost/pressure sensor usually outputs around three volts.
So you now have a 12vdc Engine fuse backfeeding into the boost/pressure output line (3vdc output, remember?) which also goes to the ECU at pin 2B.
Pin 2B on a working car, usually only sees ?? 3vdc max give or take. But now you have 12vdc going to it. Not good.
Usually people who use the Turbo EM harness on the non turbo FRONT harness just remove or cut the two alternator wires at the EM harnesses ORANGE plug(s) to prevent this from happening. The alternator wires would be black/white and white/black.
ORANGE plugs have a ref designator of X-15 and X-16 or FEM-01/FEM-02.
So you now have a 12vdc Engine fuse backfeeding into the boost/pressure output line (3vdc output, remember?) which also goes to the ECU at pin 2B.
Pin 2B on a working car, usually only sees ?? 3vdc max give or take. But now you have 12vdc going to it. Not good.
Usually people who use the Turbo EM harness on the non turbo FRONT harness just remove or cut the two alternator wires at the EM harnesses ORANGE plug(s) to prevent this from happening. The alternator wires would be black/white and white/black.
ORANGE plugs have a ref designator of X-15 and X-16 or FEM-01/FEM-02.
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