Swaping S4 to S5?
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Swaping S4 to S5?
I have an 88 gxl n/a that needs extensive body work and I don't have the amount of money it's going to take to put it back in shape so I have decided to buy another car and swap my motor over. I am purchasing an 89 gxl n/a with a good body but some mechanical issues. I plan to swap my motor over to it, possibly keep it's transmission because it may have less miles or be in better shape, then swap at least the switch for the lights. I may also be swapping the driver's seat from my car to it because I believe it to be in better shape. Last mod is possibly installing a back seat because of my 4 year old.
What am I looking at as far as this swap over so I can be prepared? I know there are differences with the motor (intake housing, etc). Will everything pretty much fit right in? What about the transmission clutch and flywheel? Will I be able to use what is in my car since it's almost new?
Whatever it is, let me know so I can be prepared to get started without any surprises. The least amount of time I have the car down, the better.
What am I looking at as far as this swap over so I can be prepared? I know there are differences with the motor (intake housing, etc). Will everything pretty much fit right in? What about the transmission clutch and flywheel? Will I be able to use what is in my car since it's almost new?
Whatever it is, let me know so I can be prepared to get started without any surprises. The least amount of time I have the car down, the better.
#3
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok, we were looking at keeping the wiring harness from the S5 since we are having some deterioration of the wrapping on our S4 harness. I'm pretty sure the wires are fine though. wasn't sure which direction we were going to go.
Is there so much of a difference that we wouldn't be able to keep the S4 engine harness and all our S4 accessories? The reason I ask is because many of the parts under the hood are only about 4 years old.
Apart from the engine itself...does anything else swap over under the hood? I suppose I'll know more once the car is sitting in my yard.
Is there so much of a difference that we wouldn't be able to keep the S4 engine harness and all our S4 accessories? The reason I ask is because many of the parts under the hood are only about 4 years old.
Apart from the engine itself...does anything else swap over under the hood? I suppose I'll know more once the car is sitting in my yard.
#4
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
here is a better question:
Frankensteining it.
If I were to 'rip' out everything under the hood of the S4 and place it into the S5 but keep the S5 transmission and maybe some of the S5 external engine parts. I can wire splice like the best of the boys so would it be something to look at to splice the wires where they go?
Frankensteining it.
If I were to 'rip' out everything under the hood of the S4 and place it into the S5 but keep the S5 transmission and maybe some of the S5 external engine parts. I can wire splice like the best of the boys so would it be something to look at to splice the wires where they go?
#5
lycanthrope
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: lancaster ca
Posts: 1,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
parts that must be s5:
manifolds
tb and tps
omp
front cover
alternator
you just put all of that back onto your stripped down s4 block. the harness's are very different as well as all the connectors. you Must have the s5 omp and front cover on because the s5 cars will go into limp mode if they see a failure in the omp. unless you want to go rtek ecu.
the transmission you can keep s5 as well as the exhaust system. but most everything is going to have to be s5. i have done alot of s5 motor swaps into s4 but never a s4 into s5, but its pretty much the same just reversed.
manifolds
tb and tps
omp
front cover
alternator
you just put all of that back onto your stripped down s4 block. the harness's are very different as well as all the connectors. you Must have the s5 omp and front cover on because the s5 cars will go into limp mode if they see a failure in the omp. unless you want to go rtek ecu.
the transmission you can keep s5 as well as the exhaust system. but most everything is going to have to be s5. i have done alot of s5 motor swaps into s4 but never a s4 into s5, but its pretty much the same just reversed.
#6
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok eff,
your saying those are the parts that S5 and everything else can interchange? We have made up our minds to swap just the block over to the S5 so as long as everything is good and working it won't be a problem. We are going to use the S5 transmission as well since our S4 is giving us problems.
I was told the exhaust is shot...is the exhaust interchangeable to everything keeping the S5 manifold? Our S4 exhaust isn't stock and is fairly new except the Y rear section. I have a straight pipe running from the manifold to the cat which is also new. I am still having trouble with it burning exhaust gaskets at the manifold flange and I'm not quite sure why. Maybe it's warped? If I continue to have this problem using the S5 manifold and my S4 exhaust would you recommend a header from mazda trix or having an exhaust shop take a look at what I have and maybe fixing it?
your saying those are the parts that S5 and everything else can interchange? We have made up our minds to swap just the block over to the S5 so as long as everything is good and working it won't be a problem. We are going to use the S5 transmission as well since our S4 is giving us problems.
I was told the exhaust is shot...is the exhaust interchangeable to everything keeping the S5 manifold? Our S4 exhaust isn't stock and is fairly new except the Y rear section. I have a straight pipe running from the manifold to the cat which is also new. I am still having trouble with it burning exhaust gaskets at the manifold flange and I'm not quite sure why. Maybe it's warped? If I continue to have this problem using the S5 manifold and my S4 exhaust would you recommend a header from mazda trix or having an exhaust shop take a look at what I have and maybe fixing it?
Trending Topics
#8
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sweet. I'm hoping I don't continue to have the gasket problem after the swap.
I haven't done any engine swapping before on any car. My husband has had extensive engine experience but has never done it with a rotary. Is there anything I should watch out for or be careful of while I swap external parts? Any kind of gremlins are haunted areas I need to worry about? What about any kind of alignment or timing things? Am I going to have to reset or recalibrate anything? Also, what about the AC system? I am assuming the AC unit in the S5 still works, will it need someone to recharge it or do anything to it?
We are going to get an engine stand to assemble everything to make it easier and are using an engine lift to remove and install the entire engine and transmission as one.
I haven't done any engine swapping before on any car. My husband has had extensive engine experience but has never done it with a rotary. Is there anything I should watch out for or be careful of while I swap external parts? Any kind of gremlins are haunted areas I need to worry about? What about any kind of alignment or timing things? Am I going to have to reset or recalibrate anything? Also, what about the AC system? I am assuming the AC unit in the S5 still works, will it need someone to recharge it or do anything to it?
We are going to get an engine stand to assemble everything to make it easier and are using an engine lift to remove and install the entire engine and transmission as one.
#11
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you basically need to keep everything s5 except for your "keg" they changed everything electronically making it pretty damn impossible to swap tit-for-tat. wont be bad though if your s5 only has mechanical issues im assuming engine-wise. pull your s5 motor and trans and your s4 engine and trans. leave the wiring harnesses attatched by removing them from the ecu and pushing them through the firewall. then strip all the manifolds and and sensors and such and swap them from your s5 to your s4. you may want to concider not exchanging your front covers but pulling your s5 electric oil metering pump off and leaving it plugged into the harness to fool the ecu but keep your s4 mechanical pump. i believe* the s4 was more reliable. you'll obviously need a couple of gaskets and probably some new hoses and now would idealy be the best time to do so. hope that helps.
#12
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks ridah for the advice! according to eff I am to use the S5 front covers? A third opinion or explanation as to which is which or the difference? sorry for all the newbie questions here.
#14
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 1,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Search for my threads/posts from the old days. Circa 2004. I did this swap and I am still running it almost 7 years later. Some slight modification will be necessary. FWIW When I did the swap it had NO problems passing extensive (at speed) smog tests. Due to current MO laws, emissions went bye bye though.
#16
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks inflatablepets :P Ok, I haven't done my own research yet to find out the answer to this one...what are you guys talking about the front covers...what are they and where is it located? Newbe question for sure!
Pretty much we plan to do as the other have suggested and putting all the external engine parts from the S5 onto the motor/block that is in our S4. Hopefully everything external is functioning as it should. I know the S5 runs and drives but it's not good because the motor needs a rebuild and he says there is vibration in the drivetrain somewhere. He is sure the vibration is not the engine or transmission.
Pretty much we plan to do as the other have suggested and putting all the external engine parts from the S5 onto the motor/block that is in our S4. Hopefully everything external is functioning as it should. I know the S5 runs and drives but it's not good because the motor needs a rebuild and he says there is vibration in the drivetrain somewhere. He is sure the vibration is not the engine or transmission.
#18
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like I said, either way we go, we still have to remove everything, strip it down, put it back together, and reinstall it.
#20
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, after some research I am definitely going to keep the S4 front cover. I don't think I want to risk messing something up by trying to swap this if I can avoid it. I suppose I'll create a place to hard bolt the S5 OMP so it isn't "floating around" in there?
#21
s4 Pride
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Posts: 3,350
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Correct. I've never personally heard of someone leaving the s5 Oil Metering Pump connected but not on the engine, but I'm sure its been done. If pure simplicity is your goal, keep the front cover on the s4 engine (which includes the mechanical OMP instead of the s5's electrical OMP).
You know what the front cover is now though?
You know what the front cover is now though?
#23
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: nw arkansas
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
im doing the same thing with my car...
if u need/have any tips lemme know ...
ive switch a few things already,
i can give u a list of what ive got goin
on if u need it ...zimmy
if u need/have any tips lemme know ...
ive switch a few things already,
i can give u a list of what ive got goin
on if u need it ...zimmy
#24
Full Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wish me luck!
I'll post pics in here as I go!
#25
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: nw arkansas
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ya..pic would b a good idea...ill take some too.
So far i have..
S5 power steering pump..
S5 AC pump..
rehosed manual OMP
At this point im planning for S5 injection and emissions.....
pulleys, air pump, altenator, clutch set off the S5...
flywheel off an S4 ....
if anybody disagrees with this plan,
please lemme know ....zimmy
So far i have..
S5 power steering pump..
S5 AC pump..
rehosed manual OMP
At this point im planning for S5 injection and emissions.....
pulleys, air pump, altenator, clutch set off the S5...
flywheel off an S4 ....
if anybody disagrees with this plan,
please lemme know ....zimmy