zoomzoomrx7man

I am in the process of adapting an Eaton M-90 blower onto my 87 n/a RX-7. I know it's been covered in the forum before. I have questions regarding ignition and fuel management. I have never done this before, nor have I worked with turbos. Any help would be appreciated. I am starting this thread for a full start to finish story, for people like me who have never done any of this before. I am considering using Mikunni carbs, therefore I would like to address my concerns for the ignition. Would parts from a Turbo II car be suitable for retaining injection? Any and all low buck ideas are a plus!!!!!!!

ajsuper7

i think people who switch to carbs use a distributor from a gslse...1st gen to run the ignition. thats all i know but sounds like a cool project.

zoomzoomrx7man

I would like to know if there is a way to maintain the electronic ignitioin. Any mods I can do to retain it?? As we all know rotarys are prone to detonation, especially forced induction. That problem doesn't need to be worsened by erattic timing.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

It depends on HOW you set it up, and what parts you obtained in doing so. If you're going carb, you're going to need some custom manifolds/etc, or I suppose you could just run it straight to the dynamic chamber bypassing the stock TB, but that's a waste. Why not retain the stock EFI if you're so obsessed with the electronic ignition? It'd be easier. Or here's a thought, decide on what you are going to do. You either buy manifolds and go carbed (might as well just go with the camden kits then) and there's no need for much fo any write-up on that. Or you can attempt to run a carb into the dynamic chamber, which involves mounting, finding a carb to fit, and etc. On another note, don't the M90's blow out the top, and feed from behind? How do you plan on getting a carb onto that? It sounds like you're trying to what zbrown has already done (and made a write-up for), but acting like it's something new, unless you really are trying to make custom manifolds, and/or carb the m90.

zoomzoomrx7man

At this point I am designing the system for use with Mikunni carbs. Anyone have any insight on these carbs? There will be a fabed intake. I am going to make the plumbing contoured, unlike every other home fabbed setup I have seen. I am designing it to allow me to adapt fuel injection and intercooler at a later date.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Taking off the fuel injection to add a supercharger and a carb/distributer and then put fuel injection back on and then add an intercooler sounds like alot of unnecessary work. I think the easiest thing to is what was done in the other thread. His method could have been easily improved though. If you convert to a carb, you need an entirely different fuel system. That is alot of work to restore it later.

Change to a 3rd gen fuel pump, replace your secondary injectors with some from a T-II, and then just use an S-AFC for a while. Later on add a Microtech. This route is far faster and easier than going to all the trouble to fab up new manifolds, working on the fuel system twice, removing and reinstalling a new ecu, time and effort, etc... Just do it right the first time. This is much better than doing it again.

If you still want to do a carb, you have 2 choices: blowthrough or draw through. If you blow through the carb you will have to do some mods to it so that fuel doesn't leak when under pressure. You'll also have to take into account fuel pressure effects from boost. If you do a draw through you will face other issues. The farther the carb from the engine, the worse it will run. Fuel isn't a fine mist coming out of a carb. It is closer to a stream. This is going to make it awfully hard to start. If you mount the supercharger to the engine and run the carb straight into it, you'll be better off but now you can't upgrade like you planned to. The carb is just too big of an issue unless you are commited to keeping it permantely.

If you still want to go the carb route then just use a blow through system and worry about carb modifications. This way you can just use a Weber style intake manifold. I still think it would be easier and faster to just use the stock intake and deal with ecu tuning issues rather than figuring out how to do so much more.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

That sounds like a pretty big waste of money. I mean, you'll have to make a custom manifold that molds the 4 runners into the big square for the top of the m90, then route another runner back behind the m90 on the intake side, and then build a platform for the carbs, and linkages/throttle cables/etc, and then run your filter off the carbs. You'd clear up room on the top of the engine bay, but building those things isn't going to be easy, especially manderal bends, etc. It seems easier/cheaper to just buy the camden. However, if you just plumb it through the stock TB like zbrown did, it can be easy as all hell. As far as fuel and ignition management, if you run carb, just leave the disconnect the injector wires, the ECU will still control spark, just not fuel.

zoomzoomrx7man

The ECU will control spark with the injectors unhooked? That answers one of my questions. I am reconsidering the the swap to carbs. I am thinking about putting a single Mustang 76mm TB in my set up. Another question I have is will the stock ECU control fuel management with boost, and if so to what degree? How much boost will it handle? Would it be be worth looking into a Turbo II ECU?

zoomzoomrx7man

What is S-AFC??????

88IntegraLS

I think I'm going to supercharge mine, too. Vortech + FMIC + water injection + Microtech + header + TII transmission + a whole lot of fabbing = $$$

greenchili

It is a computer for air/fuel management me thinks....

RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

Stand Alone Fuel Control

You are really making this more difficult them it has to be..Are you shooting for the "MAd-MAX" setup or something.... Contour the inlet and outlets reatin teh stock tb (after porting it) and have a couple lbs of boost on a budget.....

IMO.

zoomzoomrx7man

I will be getting the blower later today. I will also be getting the entire injection and intercooler. This is all on a Thunderbird SC. Anyone have any thoughts about using the T-bird injectors? I just want to state that I will be doing my own fabrication, every bit of it. My labor is cheap for myself.


Sawzall cut here, TIG weld there, WTF is this thing???

zoomzoomrx7man

I just want to state that my goal is to put as much boost into it as a stock Turbo II. What do ya'll think about using a Turbo II ECM? Is there a way to tell a turbo ECM from N/A ECM so I don't get ripped off?? How about the MAF??? I will be mounting my blower on the driverside. Watch out ya'll this is about to get wicked.

zoomzoomrx7man

I wish someone would just answer my questions instead of criticizing me.


All I need to know is if anyone thinks that putting in a Turbo II's MAF and ECM will control my boost to the level of a stock Turbo II. Just so ya'll know I have a street port job, full legnth header, dual exhaust and no cat. I am not concerned about emissions. I want to be able to get this thing together so I drive it to the dyno 20 miles away. It looks like I will be using the TB from the T-bird. Any input on the T-bird injectors?

NZConvertible

Nice try, but nope.

The Apexi Super Air Flow Converter (only the Japanese... ) is a piggyback or interceptor fuel controller. It allows you to alter the airflow meter's signal to trick the ECU into injecting more or less fuel as required.

It is quite different to a "standalone", the somewhat odd term used to describe an aftermarket programmable ECU, which completely replaces the stock ECU.

zoomzoomrx7man

Regarding fuel issues: my car is an original California car. I remember reading a tech article on California Mustangs a while back. In the article it was stated that the California car had a more adaptive ECM. That was in attempt to meet California's stricter emissions laws. If I understood right this could actually be beneficial to me. Anyone know about the CA's ECM? This is the stock ECM. Seriously starting to think about looking into a piggy back fuel managment. Any suggestions???

zoomzoomrx7man

I will be getting a Holley fuel pump and sumping my tank.

ROTILLA

Your on the right track, it sounds to me.

You REALLY should rethink the carb issue. The S/C pluss bigger secondaries, plus better rate fuel pump, don't forget the BOV, you may have decided to do your intake to nix this, but they just sound so cool, plus a "good" o2 sensor is a deff. Then with an SAFC, that will let you do what you need.

Then the trial and error begins. Just never let the motor run lean, or hot for any extended lenth of time.

Leslie

zoomzoomrx7man

I am currently running a universal Bosch 02 sensor, will this work well with mods? If not what should I use?


And if you haven't figured it: I am debating carbs. If someone will tell me if the Turbo II ECM and MAF will work for me. To what boost would you run a Turbo II and MAF. Is it worth adding the Turbo II MAF & ECM? Or should I just retain the California ECM & and add a SAFC? What will a SAFC cost me? Any recommendations?

zoomzoomrx7man

Stop !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I can handle this. I just need my questions answered.

I would like to know about the Turbo II parts. I still need to know if Turbo II stuff will work well with the blower. If that makes me seem incompatent, then screw you.

I am asking if the ECM and MAF will work well and to what extent: what boost level?

I would like to retain the injection, but if nobody will actually answer my quenstions I will just use the Mikunni's and make a drawthrough system. Then everybody would just be envious.

PLEASE ACTUALLY HELP

I have the Turbo II parts, that's why I would like to know about using them.

RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

Calm down......We are all just trying to help. Your questions are leading us to believe that you have no idea what you are getting into....What is your motivation in using the T2 parts? Why not S-afc and not worry about the stupid MAF and ecm? That is why you are getting so much Grief, because what you are saying MAKES NO SENSE, why would you go to all that trouble for no obvious gains? So go ahead and get all pissy and do whatever you want to do..We'll see you back here when you can't get it to run right and you post something like this..."HElp problems with my goofy supercharger setup" No one can answer you because this m90 supercharger only hit the forum 1.5 month's ago so not many people have done it...In turn not many people know what will or will not work....... But from the sounds of it you are heading the wrong direction, bite the bullet and buy a safc....period.

nonameo

okay... here's what you need to do.


microtech or megasquirt standalone(requires you to solder, this one does!)

I reccomend these 2 over the haltech because of cost.

720 primary 550 secondaries

pulleys to play with.

FD fuel pump or walbro

supercharger

welding skills and welder

it would also be nice to have a TII tranny and rear end.

it would be nice to have an intercooler. I'm trying to figure out a way to get the stock TII hood and intercooler to work with the m90.

it would be nice to have a wide band O2 or access to a dyno.

THIS is if you are looking to get the MOST out of that supercharger and stay reasonable at the same time. The microtech can be done for some 1200 dollars and the megasquirt for much less, depending on your skill level.


thats all folks. carb is not something I would reccomend for this since our cars are already EFI.

My reccomendation to you would be to just wait it out and look for good deals on all of these items. Do research in the meantime.

this isn't all you will need either. I am sure I missed a couple things here and there.

88IntegraLS

Yo,

Why don't you pretend to be mature and we will, too.


Why don't you just use the stock ECU and an FMU? That is how supercharger kits remain CARB legal. You do know what I'm talking about, right? :

Roy James

LoL, Man thats a crazy reason to go through alot of trouble!! I guess whatever gives you motivation.

Use stock ECU and an S-AFC, it'll be the easiest, might not be the most efficent, but its like 200 bucks used SAFC or 6-800 bucks stand alone. You could go carbed, but thats a whole-nother ball game.