jjwalker

So I went to the bank today and on my way out I tried to start the car. No dice. Power to everything but starter it seems. I got down into the floor board to inspect the clutch interlock and reach up and turned the key, and pressed the switch by hand. No go.

I get angry, I am broke and can't afford this ****.

Pop hood and wacked the main relays on the driver side and pushed on the connectors. Problem solved. Car fired right up.

Here is my question. Should I replace the main relay? Maybe bad starter or ignition switch? 2 years ago the head light retractors didn't work and jiggling the wires at the wires at the retractor fuse fixed it and has been working since then.

Ideas, suggestions?

HAILERS2

The Starter circuit does not pass thru the main relay. The main relay could be in your backyard and the starter should spin over. Won't start though.

Did you hear a click when you went to the Start positon? or not.

You hear a click of the main relay when the key is put to ON from OFF, but the click I mention is the click when the key is already to ON and THEN you turn to Start. A click of the starter solenoid should be heard when doing that even if the starter does not spin over.

jjwalker

I heard clicks in the floor board when I was messing with the clutch interlock switch.

The starter made nothing....no spinning of the starter nor engagement of the bendix gear. That would leave me to believe that it just was not getting power.

So I would assume I need to start looking for a new starter? Maybe even checking the starter connections? I looked at the FSM, but I am unsure of how the starter is engaged without a relay. There can not be that much current going through the ignition switch.

HAILERS2

What year car? Have FACTORY THEFT PROTECTION or not?

jjwalker

90 vert, factory theft but it doesnt work....cpu is toasty.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Ever had this problem before? Did you just hear a click when the key was turned to start? The wiring info in this thread is for S4s, but I think the only S5 difference is wire color: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/ive-solves-2nd-gen-sticky-starter-mystery-896013/.

A decent amount of current passes through the ignition switch to activate the starter solenoid. The starter itself is powered straight off the battery cables, so long as the solenoid is seeing enough current to complete the circuit when you turn the key. Corroded terminals/starter connections, main fuse connection, clutch interlock, ignition switch, alarm starter cut relay or starter solenoid can cause problems. There are a lot of hops along the way before the solenoid. Since rewiring my start circuit a year ago, my car has started every time.

You can bench test the starter, but I'd start by cleaning any and all connections.

HAILERS2

If the car did not have factory theft protection, then go to the Trail coil area. DO NOT remvove any wires. Just remover the threee nuts that hold the coil assy down and then lift up on the assy and look under it. Do you see a BLUE jumper plug as shown in my attached jpg? IN the jpg the blue plug has been moved from under the coil assy so be sure to look UNDER the trail coil assy for the blue plug.

Got factory theft? Then look and find the MAIN RELAY. Just aft of that relay is another relay called the starter cut relay that is THEFT related. You can pull the plug off that relay and jumper two wires in that plug to bypass the theft system and then see if the starter works. If it does not then work you can jumper power from the batt positive post to the black/white wire in that plug and the starter will spin if the starter is any good. Car out of gear. No key required. No clutch depressed required for this test.

HAILERS2

HEAVILY EDITED SINCE I FIRST WROTE HERE.

Correction. Find the starter cut relay near the main relay. Pull the plug off. Make sure the wire colors are what you see in the attached diagram.

Jumper power from the batt positive post to the BLACK/GREEN wire in that plug. Two black/green. The larger black/green should be the one to jumper power to.

Then unfortunaltey since its a series five, you have to depress the clutch interlock switch/pedal for anything to happen. Depress the clutch and the starter should spin if the starter is good. NO key required. Will not start without the key but the starter should spin proving the starter is good.

satch

iTrader: (1)

You might have slapped the Starter Cut Relay, if equipped, rather than the Main Relay.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

^ I was just thinking the same thing. Either that or it was random chance that it worked after smacking things.

jjwalker

Good!

I will do the bypass tommorow. I think I can actually disarm the total system at the CPU as I look at wiring diagrams. There should be a black wire I can ground to totally disable the anti-theft. I love directechs!

HAILERS2

So if slapping the starter cut relay and you know the theft system does no work............pull the plug off the starter cut relay and permanently jumper the Black/Blue to the Black/Green. Sorry I don't own a series five and can't say which black/green. I assume one black/green is a larger gauge and that would be the one I would pick.

If you jumper power to the wrong black/green..........not a serious problem since it goes back to a fuse in the interior called the ANTENNA fuse and if the key is not ON when doing that you MIGHT hear a relay or so click but no harm will happen.

HAILERS2

Well heck, just find that plug and jumper one black/green to the other black/green and then step on the clutch pedal. Starter should spin.
. Easier to do. The ANTENNA fuse HAS to be good for this to work.

EDIT: Probably going to have to put the key to ON only to do this. No way around that I suppose. Key supplys power to the ANTENNA fuse so key must be On, not start but ON.

jjwalker

Car wont start now.

I cant get to the shop so I have no multimeter.

This cant be too bad.

HAILERS2

Did you ever find the STARTER CUT RELAY next to the MAIN RELAY?

Six socket plug with but four wires in it. Two are black/green....one is Black/Blue and the last is Light green/Yellow.

Jumper the two black/green together in the plug. Put the key ON, not START but just to ON.

Depress the clutch pedal. Starter will spin....or not.

The other wires in that plug are of no consequence to what you wanting to do.

IF the starter spins the car might very will start (unlike a series four). This would be a good workaround to get to work or where ever til the final fix is in.

No meter needed to do this.

jjwalker

I am going to do this today. I ran out of daylight yesterday.

I jumpered B/blue and B/G yesterday, no go.

I'll try B/G to B/G and I guess if that doesn't work I'll bypass the clutch switch.

jjwalker

Did both things hailers suggested, still nothing.

B/G to B/G does exactly what putting the key to start would do if you push down the clutch, so the clutch switch works.

I am stumped, what the hell else is in this circuit?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Did you do the B/G to B/G jumper with the key to on and clutch depressed? This jumper requires the 10 amp Antenna fuse to be good.

HAILERS2

Well, if you did jumper Black/Green to Black/Green.......turned the key to ON.........and then depressed the clutch pedal and no starter action happened, there's several things to try. Oh yes, the Antenna fuse has to be good for that to work.

First just to make me feel better.........turn the key ON and see if the turn signals work or not. Probably do but if not let us know. It's a clue thing.

So what I'd do is jack the car up. Pull the small trigger wire off the starter. Get a common screwdriver and touch part of its shank to the small blade on the starter solenoid and another part of that scewdriver shank to the Large cable attached to the starter solenoid. The starter should spin over. IF so then we can figure out what to do next. IF the starter does not spin doing this, then the starter/solenoid is kaput.

There's two threaded studs on the solenoid and you want to touch the one with the large cable coming from the battery, not the stud that has a cable that goes into the starter. Hell, try both if one does not work.

Sorry 'bout the first couple of posts of mine. I'm familiar with series four and the series five is a bit different. Seems they tried they're best to make my way of working things harder.

Make sure the transmisison is out of gear doing any of the above. Don't wanna run yourself over and have to explain that to the doc at the ER.

Or instead of that get your batt jumper cables out. Attach only the one to the positive side of the batt. Then get under the car and touch the other end of that jumper to the small blade on the starter solenoid. Does the same thing as using a screwdriver shank as explained above.

jjwalker

I need to get some tools from work and my jack stands.....I'll keep you posted.

959595rotor

How about removing the starter,bench test it first ,if it still won't go strip it down and check the armature for wear, chances are you have worn brushes or carbon covered,armature if it just needs cleaning install the armature(other end) into a drill press and use a piece of medium grit sand paper over a flat file and dress the surface flat and clean then ,tidy up the brushes then reassemble and bench test,before re-installing,if however it does not it may need a solenoid,or a rebuilt starter ....................................

HAILERS2

Bench test it installed on the car by jumpering b/t the small trigger terminal and the large threaded stud with the power wire that comes from the battery.

I've had reeeeel old starters in one of my cars and the only thing that would bring life to it was a very large hammer whack on the side of the starter. It's brushes were worn to a nub and that whack is the only thing that would get 'em to make contact with the rotor. Not recommended if your going to trade in a old for new starter.

jjwalker

got the car on stands....stay tuned, trying blade method

jjwalker

12v on trigger failed. Failed starter it seems.

jjwalker

Would all others agree?