Starts and dies. starts and dies...fuel filter?
12-02-10, 06:04 PM
#1
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Starts and dies. starts and dies...fuel filter?
so the cars been sat around for about 6 months. did a clutch, trans and block off plates. got the car running a couple of days ago and found i had a huge fuel leak. fixed the fuel leak and now the car wont start. its acting as if its not getting fuel but i dont know why it would run the other day and now wont. thinking maybe the fuel filter got clogged up from premixing then sitting around?
any thoughts are appreciated.
Also the Orange pressure solenoid is broken but it ran without it just fine before.
thanks
any thoughts are appreciated.
Also the Orange pressure solenoid is broken but it ran without it just fine before.
thanks
12-02-10, 07:16 PM
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AFM is plugged in and it ran just the other day fine. as for vacuum leak ive check everything to see if i left anything unplugged but everythings good.
im going to borrow a fuel pressure gauge from work tomorrow because i think it might not be getting sufficient fuel
im going to borrow a fuel pressure gauge from work tomorrow because i think it might not be getting sufficient fuel
12-02-10, 10:34 PM
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crank for about 3 seconds, fires up, revs up then instantly dies. its as if its building fuel pressure until it has enough to start then runs out again. which is why i think it would be the filter. i really dont think it could be the pump because i can hear it running and for it to just not put out pressure all of a sudden seems unlikely.
i would check the sock but id rather text for pressure first before pulling the pump assembly out
i would check the sock but id rather text for pressure first before pulling the pump assembly out
12-02-10, 10:45 PM
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My car was sitting in one spot for months. The car wouldn't want to start, well it would start and rev but then shut off.
I think the gas was bad, from sitting in the tank too long. I put a tank of fresh gas, and then I flooded the engine. Deflooded the engine and now it starts like a champ.
Not much of help to you.
I think the gas was bad, from sitting in the tank too long. I put a tank of fresh gas, and then I flooded the engine. Deflooded the engine and now it starts like a champ.
Not much of help to you.
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12-03-10, 09:36 AM
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My car was sitting in one spot for months. The car wouldn't want to start, well it would start and rev but then shut off.
I think the gas was bad, from sitting in the tank too long. I put a tank of fresh gas, and then I flooded the engine. Deflooded the engine and now it starts like a champ.
Not much of help to you.
I think the gas was bad, from sitting in the tank too long. I put a tank of fresh gas, and then I flooded the engine. Deflooded the engine and now it starts like a champ.
Not much of help to you.
12-03-10, 09:37 AM
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12-03-10, 09:55 AM
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There's a yellow plug covered in a rubber protective boot located by the passenger fender well and is part of the harness that supplies the wires to the Variable resistor and Boost/Pressure sensor. This connector has two wires so just jumper them together and try to start the car.
12-03-10, 07:02 PM
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i know its not vacuum because ive had the intake off 3 times and i know everythings solid. everything went back exactly how it was before when it ran. plus it would start but just run like complete ****.
ill have a go at jumping that plug tomorrow. (havent had chance to look at it with work today) i did order a fuel filter so im going to through that on just for preventative maintenance in the hopes that will help
ill have a go at jumping that plug tomorrow. (havent had chance to look at it with work today) i did order a fuel filter so im going to through that on just for preventative maintenance in the hopes that will help
12-03-10, 11:09 PM
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It still sounds to be like your Connection to the AFM is not on,or Connected in Tightly.
The car will Start up and Die,over and over again if the AFM is Disconnected or not connected solidly.
Just for the Hell of it,Look at the Pin connections on the Connector and the Connections on the AFM to see if the copper tabs on the AFM have been moved.
.anyways,I am curious about what is going on,so post up results as you Go.Thanks,Dave/STYX.
The car will Start up and Die,over and over again if the AFM is Disconnected or not connected solidly.
Just for the Hell of it,Look at the Pin connections on the Connector and the Connections on the AFM to see if the copper tabs on the AFM have been moved.
.anyways,I am curious about what is going on,so post up results as you Go.Thanks,Dave/STYX.
12-05-10, 06:51 PM
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well i finally got to work on it today. decided to fire up and would hold around 3k with my foot holding it steady for about 5 seconds then stumble and die.
then messed around with the idle screw to see if i could get it to hold even a rough idle but no luck. so then i decided, why not check the plugs since its obviously getting fuel to run even if its like crap. (the plugs had been replaced by the previous owner and have around 10k on them). fronts were carboned up and covered in fuel. back ones looked ok. bought new plugs just to eliminate them.
car starts up, runs pretty good for about 5 seconds (still with foot on gas to help it out) then starts running on the back rotor (pulled the front plugs and it made no difference).
SOOOOO now i have the issue of it starts... runs kind of good for a minute then starts running on the back rotor. can you say "What the **** mate"
then messed around with the idle screw to see if i could get it to hold even a rough idle but no luck. so then i decided, why not check the plugs since its obviously getting fuel to run even if its like crap. (the plugs had been replaced by the previous owner and have around 10k on them). fronts were carboned up and covered in fuel. back ones looked ok. bought new plugs just to eliminate them.
car starts up, runs pretty good for about 5 seconds (still with foot on gas to help it out) then starts running on the back rotor (pulled the front plugs and it made no difference).
SOOOOO now i have the issue of it starts... runs kind of good for a minute then starts running on the back rotor. can you say "What the **** mate"
12-06-10, 10:05 AM
#17
Compression numbers? (possible stuck seal) Age of the plug wires? Are the injectors good?
Any air leak after the afm will cause a hard start. Did you replace the manifold gasket before starting it? I'm not talking about replacing it, bolting the UIM down, pulling it off again, bolting down again, etc. If it's been bolted down once, don't expect the UIM gasket to seal if you've disturbed it. It might, but probably won't.
Also, you said you did some blockoffs, make sure you have a good seal on those too. RTV does not make a good gasket. The harness is right there too, and it's old and has been in 20+ years of heat stress, so it's likely to have an open wire when moved around. A common issue is ECU grounds, but that's more focused towards the 3800 hesitation. Are your Leading & Trailing coils both firing?
There are alot of things that can affect this, but an air leak after the AFM sounds most likely.
Any air leak after the afm will cause a hard start. Did you replace the manifold gasket before starting it? I'm not talking about replacing it, bolting the UIM down, pulling it off again, bolting down again, etc. If it's been bolted down once, don't expect the UIM gasket to seal if you've disturbed it. It might, but probably won't.
Also, you said you did some blockoffs, make sure you have a good seal on those too. RTV does not make a good gasket. The harness is right there too, and it's old and has been in 20+ years of heat stress, so it's likely to have an open wire when moved around. A common issue is ECU grounds, but that's more focused towards the 3800 hesitation. Are your Leading & Trailing coils both firing?
There are alot of things that can affect this, but an air leak after the AFM sounds most likely.
12-08-10, 06:14 PM
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ok got some updates for you guys. put a new fuel filter in just for preventative maintenance. compression numbers where 60 on both rotors all 6 sides on obviously a cold block. primary and secondary coils are firing. Plugs as i said are brand new.
Today: fuel pressure is 58psi and volume was about a pint in 10 seconds.
unhooked the secondary injectors and tested resistance which was about 2.6 ohms (good)
hooked up a diode light to see if the injectors were firing and they ARE NOT! what would cause these not to fire?
Today: fuel pressure is 58psi and volume was about a pint in 10 seconds.
unhooked the secondary injectors and tested resistance which was about 2.6 ohms (good)
hooked up a diode light to see if the injectors were firing and they ARE NOT! what would cause these not to fire?
12-08-10, 06:20 PM
#19
Either you have the led hooked up wrong, or you're trying to check pulse width on the secondaries. They do not pulse until after 3800 rpm.
If you were checking pulse width properly, on the primaries, then you've found a problem. The ecu pulses ground to the injectors, and +12v should be on with key on.
60 psi is low. REALLY low, even for a cold block. What was your cranking speed (in rpm) and did you try putting some oil in the plug holes to see if compression went up? At least they were consistent numbers though.
If you were checking pulse width properly, on the primaries, then you've found a problem. The ecu pulses ground to the injectors, and +12v should be on with key on.
60 psi is low. REALLY low, even for a cold block. What was your cranking speed (in rpm) and did you try putting some oil in the plug holes to see if compression went up? At least they were consistent numbers though.
12-08-10, 10:22 PM
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couldnt tell you the cranking speed because its not fast enough to move the rpm gauge but cranks about as fast as it always has. put a tea spoon of trans fluid in the plug holes which didnt make too much of a difference.
i was checking on the secondaries because i didnt know they didnt fire under 3800.
i guess ill try and check on the primaries tomorrow
i was checking on the secondaries because i didnt know they didnt fire under 3800.
i guess ill try and check on the primaries tomorrow
12-09-10, 02:22 PM
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so after all of this, i borrowed my friends afm to try, fires right up. still need to set up idle etc because of the setup but at least it runs now. dont really see why mine all of a sudden failed but it did i guess.
now does anyone have an S4 n/a one for sale? lol and how do i go about setting up idle? because it has the screw on top the spring screw on the side and then the bump stop on the other side.
now does anyone have an S4 n/a one for sale? lol and how do i go about setting up idle? because it has the screw on top the spring screw on the side and then the bump stop on the other side.
12-09-10, 02:44 PM
#24
Awesome diagnostics 
You set the idle with the screw on top. It should be covered with a little black cap. Don't mess with the side screws. One should be a throttle stop, and the other I think you're referring to is for the TPS adjustment. Set idle at 750~800.
As a side note, if you've screwed with the TPS adjust already, you've got to back-probe the tps connector with a voltmeter (at normal operating temperature) and set the screw until it reaches 1.00v. Then you'll have to snap the throttle a few times and keep adjusting it until it consistently reads 1.00v.
You set the idle with the screw on top. It should be covered with a little black cap. Don't mess with the side screws. One should be a throttle stop, and the other I think you're referring to is for the TPS adjustment. Set idle at 750~800.
As a side note, if you've screwed with the TPS adjust already, you've got to back-probe the tps connector with a voltmeter (at normal operating temperature) and set the screw until it reaches 1.00v. Then you'll have to snap the throttle a few times and keep adjusting it until it consistently reads 1.00v.
12-09-10, 05:16 PM
#25
Awesome diagnostics
You set the idle with the screw on top. It should be covered with a little black cap. Don't mess with the side screws. One should be a throttle stop, and the other I think you're referring to is for the TPS adjustment. Set idle at 750~800.
As a side note, if you've screwed with the TPS adjust already, you've got to back-probe the tps connector with a voltmeter (at normal operating temperature) and set the screw until it reaches 1.00v. Then you'll have to snap the throttle a few times and keep adjusting it until it consistently reads 1.00v.
You set the idle with the screw on top. It should be covered with a little black cap. Don't mess with the side screws. One should be a throttle stop, and the other I think you're referring to is for the TPS adjustment. Set idle at 750~800.
As a side note, if you've screwed with the TPS adjust already, you've got to back-probe the tps connector with a voltmeter (at normal operating temperature) and set the screw until it reaches 1.00v. Then you'll have to snap the throttle a few times and keep adjusting it until it consistently reads 1.00v.