linuslove

Satch and RotaryEvolution, this morning I unplugged the relay you referred to. I sprayed starting fluid and tried. No turning over. I did it around 5 times and it did not turn over! After I put the relay back and plugged it in, I tried to start it and gas fumes were shooting out of the o2 sensor port which as I said I have left our during all of this. It was like pure gas was spraying out of that hole vaporizing and the whole garage smells like unburnt gas now. Doesn't this all point to those injectors? Tell me what to do next to narrow it down to ONLY those injectors. Guess we MUST get it started to see if that port alleviates the burden on a suspected clogged cat which we are still unsure of! How do I get this darn car to start again when the engine is probably flooded out terribly given gas is vaporizing out of that o2 port when I crank the engine?

satch

iTrader: (1)

You state that the engine did not turn over, but that would mean the engine did not crank as turning over and starting are two different things. Perhaps you should screw the Oxygen Sensor back in, but just tight enough that you could easily remove it later. Then remove the lower plugs on both rotors and pull the EGI fuse. Then turn the key to start to get the engine to rotate (turn over) and this should cause any excess fuel in the engine housings to be expelled. Get the engine to rotate for ten seconds or so and then wait a short time and then try it again followed by placing the spark plugs back in place. Relace the EGI fuse but leave the relay unplugged. Then try just 1 to 2 seconds of starter fluid and then try to start the car and see if it runs briefly. If it does then replug the relay and try to start the car again for real and if you can get the car started for real then while idling remove the Oxygen Sensor and see if the engine responds better.

linuslove

Satch. I did everything you said above. When I cranked the car to rotate the roters WOW did gas literally SPRAY OUT OF THE 2 SPARK PLUG HOLES! So I did it for 10 seconds maybe 3 times with 5 minutes between each crank. Seems like it was dry at that point! Then I put the plugs back in, EGI fuse back n, unplugged the relay. Then I sprayed starter fluid into the intake and tried to start it.Cranked but did not start up! I tried several times and no luck! I assume that since the relay is unplugged I am NOT reflooding the engine as I spray starter fluid and crank. So we have an unflooded engine that seems to want to start, BUT I is not! What do I do next Satch?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Were the plugs that you removed wet with gas? If so you'll need to dry them off w/a blow dryer or something similar and all the plugs need to be dry and not wet. You could also inject a teaspoon or so of oil into the plug holes to coat the inside of the engine to help build compression. And you might want to verify once more that you have spark.

linuslove

Hi Satch. First time I removed the plugs they were soaked! I removed them again. I dried them and it was not flooded as badly, but I really dried out the whole area and the holes with a blow dryer! I skipped the spray test and left the o2 sensor in and got it started! White smoke out the exhaust like you would not believe! I put something on the pedal to keep rpms at 1000. I ran to the 02 sensor and unscrewed it and it literally shot out cause I had it on so loose. Now it was my third exhaust pipe! It rocked and rolled! Sounded terrible hearing exhaust coming out that hole and looked odd! Anyway, I kept it going until the smoke was clear out of all 3 exhausts! It was real rough! And I brought the rpms down to maybe 250-350 and it stalled. The starting was ditto from the past where it just seems to get a little start and you have to just know when and how much to give it gas to get the rpm meter up. But it went up real real slow and I was able to get it going again! So, I have questions for you 2 exerts Satch and RotaryEvolution. 1) can I reinstall the O2 sensor once and for all never to take it out again? Yes or no? 2)does all the evidence point to AT LAST AND DEFINITEVELY fuel injector issue and 3)can we be safe saying hopefully that the cat is ok? THEN WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST NEXT? I really really appreciate your expertise guys....you have no idea what this all means to me to have your guidance!

linuslove

See above first........in addition.......Even started it again after the above and this time with the o2 sensor in and boy did I have to just know how much gas to give when and the rpm meter just crept up ever so slowly! Kept it at 300-400 rpms and the whole undercarriage was vibrating like all the metal underneath wanted to fall off and the car was shaking! When the rpms were at maybe 1200-2000 it was much more smooth. Hen I let them fall all the way to 200 and kept it there and let of the accelerator and I dies!

satch

iTrader: (1)

Looks like you're going to have to figure out how to remove the primary injectors.

linuslove

Hi Satch. How many primary injectors are there? What about the secondary injectors? Also what are your thoughts about my 3 questions above, namely:1) can I reinstall the O2 sensor once and for all never to take it out again? Yes or no? 2)does all the evidence point to AT LAST AND DEFINITEVELY a fuel injector issue and 3)can we be safe saying hopefully that the cat is ok?
WHY THE INTENSE SHAKING AND ROCKING AT LOW RPMS when I am giving it so little gas when it wants to stall?

satch

iTrader: (1)

The car can run rough due to clogged injectors, clogged cat, only firing on the trailing coil, running only on one rotor etc.

You can retighten your Oxygen Sensor.

You have two primary injectors. You also have two secondary injectors. The primaries are the only ones used when starting and idling the car. Since your car runs rough at start and idling, it cannot be a function of your secondaries. Of course if you pull the primaries to have them cleaned you would also do the same thing for the secondaries.

There are no guarantees here so I nor likely anyone else would provide you with guarantees.

You need to verify that the leading coil is firing properly. You can remove the leading coil from the equation by unplugging its connections that house the B/Y wire and so forth as the car runs and see if the car runs the same. If there were no change then perhaps the lead coil is problematic as the car should run rougher w/o the lead coil. Or you could just try to start the car w/the lead coil and not both coils.

linuslove

Thanks Satch. I will play with the coils as you suggest over the next few days or maybe Monday and get back to you with details.