Starting problems. No time and patience to search.
11-16-04, 07:43 PM
#1
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Starting problems. No time and patience to search.
Ok, I'm REALLY pissed off right now. But to make a long story short, I'm really losing my patience with the rotary in general. I have had my 1st gen on the road for a grand total of about a month and a half in 14 months. I spent 11 months getting the car on the road, then my 12A gave out about a month ago. Now I've got an S4 engine in my 82 that won't run.
Before I took the engine out of the other car (an 84 that had it swaped in), it ran perfectly fine besides the usual flooding of S4 and S5 engines. Now, I've got the engine so it should run in my car, but it doesn't. I got it to run once but since then nothing. I know I have spark, and i'm getting fuel into the engine. But the damn thing just won't run!! It doesn't even fire! I've got a fully charged battery, but still no run. At first it was just flooding all to hell. It was bad enough that there was fuel dripping out the header (no exhaust on car yet). WTF is wrong!
Before I took the engine out of the other car (an 84 that had it swaped in), it ran perfectly fine besides the usual flooding of S4 and S5 engines. Now, I've got the engine so it should run in my car, but it doesn't. I got it to run once but since then nothing. I know I have spark, and i'm getting fuel into the engine. But the damn thing just won't run!! It doesn't even fire! I've got a fully charged battery, but still no run. At first it was just flooding all to hell. It was bad enough that there was fuel dripping out the header (no exhaust on car yet). WTF is wrong!
11-16-04, 08:57 PM
#3
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Oh, I am right pissed off. The engine ran great in the other car. It took a little cranking to get started while in the other car, but I related this to the less-than-finger-tight spark plugs. The compression was 75 psi total with loose spark plugs. I guess I'll have to check it again with tight spark plugs. The engine was supposedly rebuilt 60000 KM ago.
11-16-04, 09:28 PM
#4
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by 85rotarypower
Oh, I am right pissed off. The engine ran great in the other car. It took a little cranking to get started while in the other car, but I related this to the less-than-finger-tight spark plugs. The compression was 75 psi total with loose spark plugs. I guess I'll have to check it again with tight spark plugs. The engine was supposedly rebuilt 60000 KM ago.
11-16-04, 10:54 PM
#7
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DerangedHermit: I don't think you understand what I did. I SWAPED my 12A out for the S4 13B that was previously swaped into the 84 I bought for parts. I'm bitching about it because I have spark and I'm getting fuel into the engine. It really doesn't make sence why it won't run.
The car will run, I just have to figure out why it won't run when I want it to. About half an hour ago my dad got it to fire but didn't get the fuse in for the fuel pump so the car stalled out. Now it won't run again.
The car will run, I just have to figure out why it won't run when I want it to. About half an hour ago my dad got it to fire but didn't get the fuse in for the fuel pump so the car stalled out. Now it won't run again.
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11-17-04, 03:55 PM
#9
Engine, Not Motor
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I've dealt with this exact problem on standalone installations. The cause is normally poor electrical connections. The rocking motion of the engine ends up making intermittant joints fail...
Did you swap all the 2nd gen sensors over? Use the 2nd gen wiring harness?
I have also seen the fuel puddle created on the ground when an injector sticks open. This is very rare, but does happen. Easy to recognize if you pressurize the fuel system (run the pump) for a few seconds, then cut the pump. If you still hear gas spraying into the intake, then it's likely an injector.
Did you swap all the 2nd gen sensors over? Use the 2nd gen wiring harness?
I have also seen the fuel puddle created on the ground when an injector sticks open. This is very rare, but does happen. Easy to recognize if you pressurize the fuel system (run the pump) for a few seconds, then cut the pump. If you still hear gas spraying into the intake, then it's likely an injector.
11-17-04, 04:14 PM
#10
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Thanks Aaron. I'll check these things out. What do I have to do if an injector is stuck open?
I used 2nd gen wiring harness and all the emmissions crap is still on the engine. i just reset the timing. But I forgot to plug the CAS back in and flooded the crap outa the engine again. wait a sec, that shouldn't happen!! With the CAS unhooked, the ECU doesn't get a signal to fire the injectors! hmmm.....
I used 2nd gen wiring harness and all the emmissions crap is still on the engine. i just reset the timing. But I forgot to plug the CAS back in and flooded the crap outa the engine again. wait a sec, that shouldn't happen!! With the CAS unhooked, the ECU doesn't get a signal to fire the injectors! hmmm.....
11-17-04, 04:20 PM
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OK, just checked things out with the injectors. I didn't hear the injectors after I tuned the key off, but while the key was on there was a very loud sound kinda like fuel being pushed out an injector. What do you think?
11-17-04, 04:29 PM
#12
Engine, Not Motor
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That sound can be made by the fuel rushing through the rails...but you are correct in that the ignition nor fuel injection won't fire without the CAS. If you pull your fuel rails and pressurize the fuel system, you can look at each injector. The stuck one (if there is one stuck) will be very obvious. 
11-17-04, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 85rotarypower
Ok, I'll have to try that later. Its probably not hard to pull the injectors (is there only 2 or is there 4 on these engines?).
you can see the secondary fuel rail and injectors when you look at the engine but you have to take the UIM off to get to them and to get to the primary rail and injectors i believe you have to take of the LIM as well
11-18-04, 08:54 AM
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Any Mazda dealer or Mazdatrix will sell gaskets separately.
When you get the rails and injectors out to test, ziptie the injectors to the fuel rails or they will fly across the garage spraying fuel everywhere when the pump pressurizes the system.
When you get the rails and injectors out to test, ziptie the injectors to the fuel rails or they will fly across the garage spraying fuel everywhere when the pump pressurizes the system.
11-18-04, 09:22 PM
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Well, before I go any further, I want to do some unflooding procedures involving ATF. So i have to get the exhaust on the car and push it outside so it doesn't smoke up the garage. I'll let you know how it goes by sunday. If it still won't start, then I'm going to see if one of the primary injectors is stuck open. The secondaries are fine, already checked since they can be taken off without taking the intake mani off.
11-21-04, 01:29 PM
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Ok, I said I would let ya know how it went today, so here we go.
After about 10 attempts to unflood, the car finally started. I'm like HURRAY!!! I had to use ATF, so the car smoked like hell for the whole time it was running. But, I have problems. First thing I noticed is that my alternator isn't charging. I'll have that checked out tommorrow. I also have one hell of an exhaust leak where the header meets the rest of the exhaust. Again, not a big deal. Warm up was fine, but after the car warmed up, thats when I notice a major problem. The idle (if thats what you want to call it) would surge between about 1500 rpm and 2500 rpm!
I was told the engine had a surging idle, but I didn't think it was this bad. I'm thinking "Holy ****, WTF is this". The engine revs up real nice and everything, but the idle is just crazy. What do you guys think? BTW, I kind doubt that this is a vacuum leak because of the way it was surging. It would go up then back down then wait about 2 seconds then repeat.
After about 10 attempts to unflood, the car finally started. I'm like HURRAY!!! I had to use ATF, so the car smoked like hell for the whole time it was running. But, I have problems. First thing I noticed is that my alternator isn't charging. I'll have that checked out tommorrow. I also have one hell of an exhaust leak where the header meets the rest of the exhaust. Again, not a big deal. Warm up was fine, but after the car warmed up, thats when I notice a major problem. The idle (if thats what you want to call it) would surge between about 1500 rpm and 2500 rpm!
I was told the engine had a surging idle, but I didn't think it was this bad. I'm thinking "Holy ****, WTF is this". The engine revs up real nice and everything, but the idle is just crazy. What do you guys think? BTW, I kind doubt that this is a vacuum leak because of the way it was surging. It would go up then back down then wait about 2 seconds then repeat.
11-22-04, 10:01 AM
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No, except that there wasn't too much of a gas smell, not like the 12A anyway. Hmmmm.... Would running lean cause it to surge? BTW, no cats or anything on this car.
11-22-04, 12:47 PM
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well i had to do the same thing, my dad rigged up a gasket the old fashioned way he used to. he went to buy some kinda paper crap, might be asbestos or i dunno what it was. but he cut it out to a general shape of the UIM than he got a little hammer and just creased of the holes with the hammer... when you do it (if you do it) you'll see what i mean.