loskeezy

My apology for the length but please read if you are knowledgeable

Still dealing with problems on my '91 n/a which are making it stall. Here are the main problems to start with.

When going to start car & clutch pedal is pressed in; Sometimes nothing will happen, Other times it will start fine; And other times it will act up like the starter will turn engine over then cut, then start turning again and cut, turn again and cut (while holding key to "start" position).....Now when i turn key to "start" and nothing happens, I can hold the key there for about 5 sec and the starter will kick in.
*note*- car will start fine when the starter kicks in then will want to hold a low idle before somethine clicks and shuts engine down.

Almost every time after engine shuts off the Starter Cut Relay starts clicking about 8 times per SECOND..basically sounds like a fully automatic machine gun. When the relay itself is not clicking i can hear the wires sending some kind of clicking/morse code through them

Fuel pump runs for about 1 sec after engine shuts down so that circuit should be fine.

Now i know the clutch switch is most likely part of the problem (jumper or disconnect for a '91?), but what about the relay???

Narrow Range on TPS was above Ohm limit by about .5 causing any problems??

What ive done so far:
Emissions removal as per Rotary Resurrection's site
Changed AFM= nothing
checked brake booster for leak=none
set tps
Tore intake off and cleaned all grounds + one by trailing coils
checked for Vac. leak= none
BAC is good
New Battery terminals
Jumpered Fuel pump connector= still stalled
--probably more but can't think of it right now

Oh yea, with engine off and brake being pressed down, i can hear some kind of pssss sound until brakes build back pressure...would that be the booster pushing air into the LIM??

If i have to tear the intake off again i will (unfortunatly) but i really need help.

HAILERS

The Starter Cut Relay is in the engine bay near the Trail coils. It is activated by the Theft Protection Unit. That unit makes it cut out. I know nothing about the Theft Protection other than maybe you could unplug the Theft Unit and MAYBE the Starter Cut Relay won't be pulling in/out all the time like it is.

loskeezy

thanks hailers, i'll try that when i get back to the car. Starter Cut Relay is the one w/ the rubber cover correct?

I also have the top nipple (crankcase vent.) on the oil filler neck (which used to connect to pcv valve) left to open air instead of catch can. Should this be connected to vacuum like the pcv valve was??

wthdidusay82

iTrader: (15)

No, you cant leave it disconnect venting to the open air because the pcv valve takes out all the fumes from gas, condenstation from water, etc out of the oil filler neck/oil system.

If you have it out you need to have a catch can or you can run a cheap setup i did with a purolator fuel filter from advanceautoparts, , you just vacuum (pull like a vacuum to suck all the stuff out) to one side of it and the other side will goto that vacuum line to the oil filler neck that is disconnected.

Id give more info but im actually going to have to double check mine is put in correctly, but basically what you want is to have the side that has the vacuum to be sucking in but not pulling anything through (thats what the filter is for).

I just forget how it goes because its been so long since i put it on and i just replaced it today for the first time after 2000 miles. They only cost about $4.00, the universal fitting $2.00

im not sure if i have mine hooked up right i sucked on it and blew through it through both sides and i cant tell if its on the right way, but i put it the same way as i had the last on there.

The side says to carb on the side to the oil dipstick tube on mine, would this be the right way ?

I can take a closer pic if need be, I'm just paranoid and want the best for my 7 and dont want to have it hooked up wrong.

Russ-R

One way you could jumper across the connections on the connector for the starter cut relay. If im not mistaken, the ecu grounds the starter cut relay thus engaging the "switch" in the relay breaking the connection between the interlock switch to the starter solenoid. That what it may be doing to your car, just remove the relay and jumper across the pin giving 12v to the other pin that goes to the starter solenoid.
IMO If that works you could always leave out that starter cut relay and just solder the wires together at the connecter.

loskeezy

Appreciate the help, i'll get all this done in the morning & see what happens.

I've read that the crankcase vent. nipple should not affect idle when open if all vacuum nips. are capped. is this right? just to rule that one out of stalling problem.
Also, anyone know if fixing starter cut relay or the clutch switch might help stalling?
(not where my fsm is right now)

I did decide to open up the ecu and check for any resistors/anything else in there toasted. Did find some resistor burnt up, pretty sure it went to one of the solenoids controlling ACV. but that is off now so, i don't think that would affect stalling.

wthdidusay82

iTrader: (15)

I botched up my thread, here is a picture with the basic instruction on it where it points at on the picture.

Sorry for any confusion from on the last post.


I also made everything alot easier to see what I'm pointing to.

edit : if its hard to see what im talking about where it says to vaccum source, thats the black vacuum line with the white universal fitting so it can be put on the vacuum source that is a smaller size vacuum hose on the tb/intake manifold

loskeezy

thanks, that will help me alot in the morning. Do you still have your s4 afm? cause i think it should be level, is it in those pics?

wthdidusay82

iTrader: (15)

Yeah ive leveled it out since taking the pic, i need to take a new pic

loskeezy

Thanks RUSS-R, i have made some progress w/ what you said. I thought of everything i could so here is what i did.
-Relay unplugged + clutch switch unplugged= no start (which is whats supposed to happen)
-Relay unplugged + clutch switch plugged in= no start (good)
-Relay unplugged + clutch switch jumpered= no start (good)
-Relay JUMPERED + clutch switch Plugged in = START (started many times fine, just kept stalling...vac leak i guess ughhh)

-Relay JUMPERED + clutch switch UNPLUGGED = START... Now i am confused on this one. with the clutch switch unplugged shouldn't that disable the starter/starter interlock??
-Relay plugged in + clutch switch UNPLUGGED = START... Same question as one above...

Hailers, ive looked at the wiring diagram for the theft protection unit, all i could find that relates to this is the Starter Cut Relay pin 2D. would i just unplug that or leave it because the car started fine with the relay jumpered.
---Also, as soon as i plugged the relay back in it started its normal machine gun routine, but the car still started... so i believe the Starter Cut Relay has gone baad.

As for the stalling... I am using the Metal LIM gasket torqd to spec w/out rtv. Anybody have problems with this gasket before?? I am sure i sealed everything well, just with no rtv; but maybe a gasket got offset and is leaking.

HAILERS

What I'd do is depinn the wire at the relay that powers it up from the theft unit. Either that or you could depin the gnd wire of the relay to disable it.

Or you could put the relay on the shelf and permanently jumper the BlackWhite wire to the Black/Green wire.

That's if you don't want the Theft to work. I have no Theft and am not in the least interested in having it, so my knowledge is real low on this subject. Except I do believe if you deping the wire from the thert to the Cut Relay that should make all well.

Several ways to work that out. Your pick. The relay may be getting bad OR the gnd for the relay could be just so-so, or the wire/signal from the Theft could be so-so. Who knows? The Shadow knows.

Series four cars that have no theft protection, have no relay, but do have the plug to the relay in place on the harness. What Mazda does is install a BLUE jumper connector on that relay plug to jumper the Black/White to the Black/Green.

Black/Green comes from the clutch interlock switches output. If your car is starting with the interlock switch's plug disconnected. ........got me why.


EDIT: OOOPS. Screwed up again. The gnd for that relay is from the Theft Unit itself. I forgot about that. Yeah, just depin that wire at the relay and your home free until later when and if you care to find out the why's and wherefores of it chattering. LgY wire down in the corner of the relay plug....on a series four anyway.

EDITED AGAIN: There are two black/green wires at that connector. One from the clutch interlock switch and the other from a a fuse. Just FYI.

loskeezy

I think i will just go get a 6 plug connecter and make that blue jumper connecter you pictured. might change it later, who knows.

I dont know why the car started with the interlock switch disconnected either. ive heard 1991s were weird, so maybe that ha
...now just to fix the stalling... vac leak i believe since it will start, sputter at about 500 rpm for a sec, then as if vac. is getting sucked completely out of the manifolds, it stalls.

HAILERS

If you go to a junk yard and look at MOST series four cars, that Blue jumper will be found UNDER the trai coil area. All my cars have it. I've no theft protection. I've a pitbull and a gun plus good hearing and eyesight. .....and a shovel to bury whoever in the backyard.

HAILERS

If you go to a junk yard and look at MOST series four cars, that Blue jumper will be found UNDER the trai coil area. All my cars have it. I've no theft protection. I've a large, aggressive, child eating pitbull and a gun plus good hearing and eyesight. .....and a shovel to bury whoever in the backyard.

loskeezy

haha that makes two of us, except the back hoe will get the burial done quick and easy...... Haven't had much luck here in Wilmington w/ the junkyards but still gotta check out a few more.