Smoke on high revs after car has been sitting , normal , or just oil burning ?
03-27-09, 11:51 AM
#1
Smoke on high revs after car has been sitting , normal , or just oil burning ?
I am getting a light colored smoke that comes on pretty consistantly when I rev the **** out of the car after it's warmed up.
I'm revving it in neutral and it will start throwing the smoke out if i leave it revving at 4k, and more smoke comes out as i rev it higher.
Also there was some smoke coming from the ends of my radiator , right and left... i don't know if it was because the car was sitting and something burnt off, or because my car was running extremely hot since the car had no air moving through the radiator/engine bay , other than what the clutch fan provided for cooling.
For the record, the engine MAY have bad coolant seals, i overheated it a few times badly when the engine was first installed due to a faulty clutch fan (misdiagnosed the problem and later found out it was the clutch fan).
Engine right now has approximately 15-20k miles and I am a spirited driver , engine build was done by kevin landers.
Ps, for those who want to say I shouldn't be revving my car to the redline in neutral, I really don't care what you have to say, if my engine blows its on me, but in my opinion a rotary engine can handle it, thats why its a rotary.
I'm revving it in neutral and it will start throwing the smoke out if i leave it revving at 4k, and more smoke comes out as i rev it higher.
Also there was some smoke coming from the ends of my radiator , right and left... i don't know if it was because the car was sitting and something burnt off, or because my car was running extremely hot since the car had no air moving through the radiator/engine bay , other than what the clutch fan provided for cooling.
For the record, the engine MAY have bad coolant seals, i overheated it a few times badly when the engine was first installed due to a faulty clutch fan (misdiagnosed the problem and later found out it was the clutch fan).
Engine right now has approximately 15-20k miles and I am a spirited driver , engine build was done by kevin landers.
Ps, for those who want to say I shouldn't be revving my car to the redline in neutral, I really don't care what you have to say, if my engine blows its on me, but in my opinion a rotary engine can handle it, thats why its a rotary.
03-27-09, 12:03 PM
#3
I don't know for sure if he does or not, but he's the owner of rotaryresurrection.com
I really dont care if the oil rings are going bad, but its pretty bad considering the engine has only 20k miles on it, and probably a good reason to get pulled over.
Edit - From Rotaryresurrection.com Installed are new " Atkins viton oil control o-rings and e-shaft thermal pellet replacement for stock oil thermal pellet"
So if my oil rings have been replaced, why would they go bad after only 20k miles ?
03-27-09, 12:08 PM
#4
I'm in the same boat as you are buddy... Huge clouds of white smoke around 4-5k.
I'd call him up and ask. And if he didn't, yell at him. He should have replaced them regardless of if they were good or not. That's common sense.
*edit
Erm... no thats not likely then. There's maybe a .001 chance in your case. Possible, but not likely.
Check your OMP next. Also make sure the rod going up to the throttle body is not bent or kinked in anyway.
I'd call him up and ask. And if he didn't, yell at him. He should have replaced them regardless of if they were good or not. That's common sense.
*edit
Erm... no thats not likely then. There's maybe a .001 chance in your case. Possible, but not likely.
Check your OMP next. Also make sure the rod going up to the throttle body is not bent or kinked in anyway.
Last edited by Hazard15301; 03-27-09 at 12:12 PM. Reason: saw his edit
03-27-09, 12:12 PM
#5
You get what you pay for, thats why his rebuild is only like 1000 and other places charge double that and even more depending on what you want done.
If he can save like 50 bucks by not replacing peoples oil rings, why wouldnt he do it ? I'm not saying he does, but the reasoning behind it would be logical for profit.
Do that on 50 customers cars in a year and youve saved yourself a good chunk of money.
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03-31-09, 12:23 PM
#8
I have not read this thread, but I am posting on behalf of Kevin Landers:
I wanted to respond to the comments you made on rx7club. I am no longer a
registered member there and cannot post but I still wanted this opportunity.
However, feel free to reply to me in an area that I can respond (email or the other forum), if you are
brave enough.
First...where do you get off saying "Is it because Kevin Landers is a
cheap-o and doesnt replace them with new ones when the engine is rebuilt ?"
As clearly stated on my website for the last, oh, 7 years or so, all engines
get new viton oil control rings. Including yours.
As far as me or my pricing being cheap...the customer decides what options
he wants during the build. If you had wanted all new parts on the rotors,
then you could have paid extra (at my cost, not marked up to retail) and
gotten just that...all new parts on the rotors. I do not hide what I reuse
and what I replace...so you know going into it what you will get new and
what you will get used, and if you want to replace something that I reuse,
all you have to do is say the word (and pay the difference) and it will be
done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next comment: "He probably has no clue, he's honestly a " budget " builder,
meaning that most re-usable parts are reused, but in my opinion any wearable
part should be replaced in my opinion, especially something that would
create a huge problem with smoke."
IF that is your opinion, then why are you stating it so clearly 3 years
later, but did not mention wanting "all new wear parts" when you had the
engine built? I could have gladly built you an "all new parts" engine. You
would have footed the bill, however. Bear in mind that technicall all parts
inside a rotary except the rotors are 'wear" parts. Irons, rotor housings,
bearings, all the seals and springs, the whole lot of it. You ask, why don't
I replace every part every time? COST. No one wants to pay 3 or 4 grand for
an engine block to go into a car that is worth 2 grand on a good day (most
FC NA's).
Also, if you compare my part replacement list to that of other builders, you
will find that I pretty much replace the same parts that they do in their
basic builds. They just continue to charge more to give everyone the
impression they are getting a better engine. That is, if the "reputable"
builders (you know, the ones who aren't cheap/budget builders) even choose
to tell you what they replace and what they reuse...many of them do not, and
you have to pull teeth to get them to tell you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next comment: "You get what you pay for, thats why his rebuild is only like
1000 and other places charge double that and even more depending on what you
want done."
The biggest reason is that the other builders have pre-built cores already
sitting on the shelf ready for exchange, core parts and seal kits bought on
their own dime, time invested into the build beforehand. You pay for this
added convenience in the form of higher prices. Also they have no idea what
kind of core you will send them back...they are sending out a block with 8
good major internal parts, and they may be getting back a core with only 4
or 5. The cost of replacing those bad parts in some of the cores has to go
somewhere. So they add it into everyone's price so it all averages out to
cover the losses on the junk cores.
You're saying you'd rather pay a higher price for the same parts being
replaced, because you can get the engine a couple weeks sooner, and you
don't mind paying for someone else's junk core exchange?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next comment: "If he can save like 50 bucks by not replacing peoples oil
rings, why wouldnt he do it ? I'm not saying he does, but the reasoning
behind it would be logical for profit.
Do that on 50 customers cars in a year and youve saved yourself a good chunk
of money."
I am not a litigous person, but your comment borders on slander, FYI.
Bullshit comments and accusations like this are the reason I began photo
documenting all teardowns and builds/assembles as of a couple years ago...to
SHOW people what went into their engine and to PROTECT myself against
people's bullshit years down the road when something doesn't go their way
and they decide to blame it on me.
Do I look like I need the 30 dollars I would save by not replacing your
viton oil control rings? Because that is what they cost me...30 dollars a
set. You're an idiot if you think I would consider taking that, or any other
similar chance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I welcome any response you may have, in public or in private. I can be found
on rotarycarclub.com or emailed directly at kevin@rotaryresurrection.com
anytime you have an issue to hash out with me.
Kevin
I wanted to respond to the comments you made on rx7club. I am no longer a
registered member there and cannot post but I still wanted this opportunity.
However, feel free to reply to me in an area that I can respond (email or the other forum), if you are
brave enough.
First...where do you get off saying "Is it because Kevin Landers is a
cheap-o and doesnt replace them with new ones when the engine is rebuilt ?"
As clearly stated on my website for the last, oh, 7 years or so, all engines
get new viton oil control rings. Including yours.
As far as me or my pricing being cheap...the customer decides what options
he wants during the build. If you had wanted all new parts on the rotors,
then you could have paid extra (at my cost, not marked up to retail) and
gotten just that...all new parts on the rotors. I do not hide what I reuse
and what I replace...so you know going into it what you will get new and
what you will get used, and if you want to replace something that I reuse,
all you have to do is say the word (and pay the difference) and it will be
done.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next comment: "He probably has no clue, he's honestly a " budget " builder,
meaning that most re-usable parts are reused, but in my opinion any wearable
part should be replaced in my opinion, especially something that would
create a huge problem with smoke."
IF that is your opinion, then why are you stating it so clearly 3 years
later, but did not mention wanting "all new wear parts" when you had the
engine built? I could have gladly built you an "all new parts" engine. You
would have footed the bill, however. Bear in mind that technicall all parts
inside a rotary except the rotors are 'wear" parts. Irons, rotor housings,
bearings, all the seals and springs, the whole lot of it. You ask, why don't
I replace every part every time? COST. No one wants to pay 3 or 4 grand for
an engine block to go into a car that is worth 2 grand on a good day (most
FC NA's).
Also, if you compare my part replacement list to that of other builders, you
will find that I pretty much replace the same parts that they do in their
basic builds. They just continue to charge more to give everyone the
impression they are getting a better engine. That is, if the "reputable"
builders (you know, the ones who aren't cheap/budget builders) even choose
to tell you what they replace and what they reuse...many of them do not, and
you have to pull teeth to get them to tell you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next comment: "You get what you pay for, thats why his rebuild is only like
1000 and other places charge double that and even more depending on what you
want done."
The biggest reason is that the other builders have pre-built cores already
sitting on the shelf ready for exchange, core parts and seal kits bought on
their own dime, time invested into the build beforehand. You pay for this
added convenience in the form of higher prices. Also they have no idea what
kind of core you will send them back...they are sending out a block with 8
good major internal parts, and they may be getting back a core with only 4
or 5. The cost of replacing those bad parts in some of the cores has to go
somewhere. So they add it into everyone's price so it all averages out to
cover the losses on the junk cores.
You're saying you'd rather pay a higher price for the same parts being
replaced, because you can get the engine a couple weeks sooner, and you
don't mind paying for someone else's junk core exchange?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next comment: "If he can save like 50 bucks by not replacing peoples oil
rings, why wouldnt he do it ? I'm not saying he does, but the reasoning
behind it would be logical for profit.
Do that on 50 customers cars in a year and youve saved yourself a good chunk
of money."
I am not a litigous person, but your comment borders on slander, FYI.
Bullshit comments and accusations like this are the reason I began photo
documenting all teardowns and builds/assembles as of a couple years ago...to
SHOW people what went into their engine and to PROTECT myself against
people's bullshit years down the road when something doesn't go their way
and they decide to blame it on me.
Do I look like I need the 30 dollars I would save by not replacing your
viton oil control rings? Because that is what they cost me...30 dollars a
set. You're an idiot if you think I would consider taking that, or any other
similar chance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I welcome any response you may have, in public or in private. I can be found
on rotarycarclub.com or emailed directly at kevin@rotaryresurrection.com
anytime you have an issue to hash out with me.
Kevin
03-31-09, 01:30 PM
#10
So if my oil rings have been replaced, why would they go bad after only 20k miles ?
You pay for cheaper parts and that's what you get. I am not attacking users of aftermarket oil control rings (**** I use them myself), nor am I attacking Kevin here--he is just experiencing what business schools would essentially call "brand dilution" because he does work for people who
1) don't take care of their car well enough (by letting it sit for example)
2) won't pay for the more expensive parts and then suffer the consequences, which then reflects poorly on Kevin through no direct fault of his own.
Otherwise, if you want to know exactly what has been replaced in an engine and how everything was clearanced etc, either
1) build it yourself
2) arrange for the builder to give you a detailed list, and prepare to pay hourly for that service
03-31-09, 07:33 PM
#14
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wtfdidyousay82 Ya know its not fair to throw that out there before you know the facts... That is slander and worth taking to court. If someone talked like that about me i would be all over them too. You need to make sure your other parts on the engine are working right also. OMP is it working correctly? i bet you didnt look to see how much oil its pumping. Or are you using two cycle motor oil and blocked off the plates? Also a big mistake that i made and worth checking out is the oil cooler, Are the Fins Clear. Ill be honest I Goofed on my first rebuilt engine and missed the fact my oil cooler was blocked by sludge. And over time wore out the oil rings. Ya know when a rotary sits a long time anything can happen.. Try driving it for awhile. Try changing the oil. Just my two cents.
04-01-09, 07:50 PM
#15
i say deez , you say doze
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that's funny how people sit on here and talk **** about landers.. he schooled alot of us with some of his post.. how many engine's per YEAR have yall re built ? same as what happened with crispeed .. people being walking hard on's doesn't prove anything , but being weak minded.. you NEVER bite the hand that feed's you. thats my quater .
chris
chris
04-01-09, 11:19 PM
#16
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As a 7 owner...how does this happen?
And I also wanna say something on behalf of kevin.
When i first started coming on to this site (about a year and a half ago) i ran across a web page of kevins that had 100+ pictures of EVERY STEP regarding a rebuild. I sat, read and gained alot of knowledge from it as well. Hell after reading and seeing everything i was convinced i could tackle my first rebuild
People like kevin are few and far between. Offering rock bottom prices for really reliable work.
Someone who rebuild's atleast 50 engines a year prooooooobably knows what hes talking about, ATLEAST to some extent.
As for the person still overheating his RX-7 and expecting it to run...
When i first started coming on to this site (about a year and a half ago) i ran across a web page of kevins that had 100+ pictures of EVERY STEP regarding a rebuild. I sat, read and gained alot of knowledge from it as well. Hell after reading and seeing everything i was convinced i could tackle my first rebuild
People like kevin are few and far between. Offering rock bottom prices for really reliable work. As for the person still overheating his RX-7 and expecting it to run...
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