when i turn the key to crank nothing happens ...so i tried the search button to no avail i tried numerous things ..i changed the main relay c,hanged engine fuse ,under dash fuse , resistor relay ,maf...tested starter ....then i cranked and tested the small wire going to the starter there was no current going to it....how does that play apart in the starting

 

The is the signal wire, which energizes the solenoid and pops the gear into place. Without it, the starter motor will not receive power / spin. Power to it should run from a relay near the trailing coil, if your car has an alarm system. I think on cars without it, it'll just run directly from the ignition switch, but travel through that same area. Look for Hailers' posts in threads on starting problems to be sure, or look at the wiring diagrams.

 

This is a series four? 1987 that Was non turbo and now is turbo if memory serves. Matters not, it's series four.

This sounds silly for a starter problem, but do your turn signals and or wipers work in any fashion if the key is put to ON?

Anyway, power goes from the key to the clutch interlock switch. That switch is waaaay up on the top of the pedal. Not the switch on the lower half of the pedal. So the clutch has to be pushed in to *make* the circuit thru the interlock switch.

Then the power goes thru that interlock switch to a STARTER CUT RELAY near the Trail Coils. IF the car did not come with Theft protection, then there will be no STARTER CUT RELAY, but the elect plug still exists on all the cars. So what Mazda did is put a BLUE jumper plug in that STARTER CUT relays plug. That jumper plug passes the start power thru the Blue jumper and on to yet another plug.....thru that plug to the starter solenoid.

I attach a jpg of the wiring. I'd suspect the interlock switch on TOP of the clutch pedal. You might pull the elect plug off it. Then put a jumper wire b/t the two sockets in the elect plug that was attached to the interlock switch. Then see if the starter will work.

If this car came with ABS the circuit is just a little different and you need to say so.

If you have no turn signals or wipers of any kind, that might make me suspect you've lost power to the ignition KEY and that the problem lies in lack of power to the key. IF you do have turn signals or wipers with key ON, then that's not the case and the problem lies with the interlock switch or one of the pieces b/t the interlock switch and the solenoid.

Assure me this has NEVER been an automatic car, please. There is a different path for starting on automatics.

 

heres what i have done i jumpered the interlock switch...no start ..then i checked the wipers and turn signal they work...so now you think its the starter cut relay ...do you have a pic were its ...also i have the theft protection on my s4

 

Never seen one myself. Supposed to be located next to the Main Relay. You'll know it when you pull the plug off the relay and the wire colors are just like the ones in the jpg I attached.

I think that would be two Black/Green one of which would be large and the other smaller..........two black/white, one larger than the other......one light green/yellow that comes from the theft unit and pulls in that relay if theft is happening. Depinning that one wire should allow the power to go from the key thru the Starter Cut Relay to the starter solenoid.

I'd pull the plug off it and put a meter on the Large black/green. Then put the key to Start. Batt pwr should show up on the black/green....if the wiring b/t the key and starter cut relay is good.

Relay locations and related part to the starting system are usually located on the page next to the wiring diagram for starting and charging. There you'd find the Starter Cut Relays location.

 

ok this is what i found ...the starter cut relay is side by side next to the main relay ...i unpluged it and put my key in to start then got out and put my meter on the thick black wire and there was nothing...i put it on the thin black wire it had 12v....so now im puzzeled ...the relay is ----FB25 DC,12V,DA-NC IMASEN--7B 03

 

The large BLACK/GREEN wire in the relays plug will have power on it only when the key is HELD to START.

So I'm asking....when you have a meter on the large BLACK/GREEN wire, are you HOLDING the key to START????? That's the only condition you will have power on that wire.

I might have made a mistake earlier. The wire colors are as shown in the attached jpg. Only one black/white and that wire goes directly to the starter solenoid. The large black/green comes from the ignition switch and has power only when the key is HELD to START.

The small light green/yellow might have some power on it. It comes from the Theft unit.

Are you saying you have power on the LARGE black/green wire when the key is HELD to Start? Or are you saying you have power on the large black/green wire all the time. Even when the key is not held to start?

 

my mistake i should have had someone hold it in start then check ..ill do that now....

 

If you take a piece of electrical wire, and bare it at each end, you can stuff one end where the LARGE black/green wire is and the other end of the new bare wire into the socket where the Black/White wire is. That would duplicate what the BLUE jumper plug does that non Theft protected cars have instead of the relay.

So you jumper those two wires and put the key to Start. On a normal car the starter would spin over.

If it does not spin over, get another piece of elect wire that will reach from the batterys positive post to the connector on the Starter Cut Relay. Stuff one end of this wire into where the black/white wire is. Then....with transmission in NEUTRAL, put the other end of the new wire to the batterys positive post. Starter should spin. If it does not........either you left the trigger wire off the starter solenoid.......or the starter is bad (not likely imho) or I have another possibility I'll mention later.

 

update ; what i did was all of the above with no response ..so then i put a wire on the positive terminal of the battery and the other end to the solinoid of the starter and it cranked over ..but did not start..could it be the theft system ...also my ecu is the n332..

 

************************************************** ************************************************** ******************************
If you put a wire to the BLACK/WHITE wire in the Starter Cut Relays socket, and the starter did not turn over, then there is a OPEN b/t the starter cut relays black/white wire and the starter solenoid.

If you had the key to ON when you put the wire from the batt positive post to the small terminal on the starter solenoid, and the starter turned over but engine did not start..........could be several things. The lack of a signal from the wire on the starter solenoid to the ECU's pin 3B would mean not enough fuel is being delivered as you try to start the engine.

As I said in the previous post above, there is one more connector b/t the starter cut relay and the starter solenoid. The 1987 wiring is different than the 88 in this respect. See the last paragraph of this post for the wire colors on a 1987 non turbo car.


EDITED: I looked at the 1987 non turbo car wiring. There is one plug b/t the starter cut relay and starter solenoid. It has six sockets/piins.

Wire colors like: BR YL BG on the top row and the bottom row BW RL L Thats for a stock non turbo car of the 1987 vintage.

If I were you, I'd pull the plug(s) off the THEFT UNIT, then go work in the car. I THINK but don't KNOW, but I think THEFT UNIT only effects the Starter Cut Relay as far as actual Starting goes. If the theft unit is disconnected, then the starter cut relay can be reinstalled and left in place because the power will still pass thu it's closed contacts. BUT the starter won't spin til you find the OPEN b/t the starter cut relay and the starter solenoid.

Any harness been removed and replaced in this area of the car. Has this car ever started before using the key? IF it did, what have you done since that event that might cause the wiring to be ....disconnected...rerouted etc.

 

everthing has not changed the only other thing is my after market alarm but i disabled that...but when i first had this problem there was a burn smell under the dash

 

I suspect the starter switch is toasted. (Happened to me, same smell).

You can use a voltmeter or test lamp to verify that you are getting 12v onto the start terminal of the ignition switch when the key is held in start. This is the one with the heavy guage wire that connects to the black with green stripe wire in the car's harness.

Be very carful not to short the contacts with your probe, and wear eye protection.

I suspect one of two possibilities: ignition switch has fried internally (happened to me) or something associated with the alarm is miswired and causing the problem.

If there is 12v at the start terminal and at the harness connector, check to be sure the starter cut-out relay wire is not grounded (behind glovebox, factory alarm connector, M-01, 17 pins, light green wire with yellow stripe.)

Gene

 

i took the shroud of the ignition switch and put my key in and had my probe on that wire it lit up evertime i went in start position...now is the theft unit under the glove box because i saw a goldish box so i unpluged it ..stil did not turnover

 

..far fetched But I am gonna throw it out there to ya..Just out of curiosity,did you Check the Engine bay fuse block??
there is a Black colored wire that Feeds that fuse block,and IF it is Disconnected,you get NOTHING at the Starter.you can turn the key,.nothing happens,,You may get some indication that you have power,to Something,,that is about it,If you are lucky.

 

Theft box is where you said it is.

Black wire at the engine bay fuse box feeds the ignition switch, not the interior fuse box. Turn the key to ON makes the circuit from the black wire thru the ignition switch to the IG1 row of fuses and the IG2 row of fuses.

The fuses above those two rows is the batt bus which is fed from the BTN fuse on a series four car and has pwr 24/7.

The ignition switch has a connector with a pure BLACK wire and a Black/White wire. Put the key to Start and the power feeds from the pure BLACK wire thru the switch to the single wire connector with a Black/Red wire. Power goes on from there to the starter solenoid after it passes thru the interlock switch and starter cut relay.

Put the key to ON, and power passes from the pure black wire ...thru the switch...to the two wire connector with a black/white wire.......on to the IG1 row of fuses where the Engine fuse resides along with others.

Put the key to ON and the power passes from the pure black wire thru the switch to the two wire connector with a BR wire......on to IG2 row of fuses. Put the key to Start and power does NOT go to those non essential fuses. Relax the key back to ON and those non essential fuse now get power again. That's why your wiper stop working when you HOLD the key to Start.

Put the key to ACC and the power goes from the pure black wire...thru the switch....to the BLUE wire.........to the ACC row of fuses in the interior fuse box.

You have a open circuit from the Starter Cut Relay to the starter solenoid. The circuit is open because you said you put a wire b/t the positive cable on the battery to that black/white wire and nothing happened. There is but one connector b/t the starter cut relay and the starter solenoid. Six sockets with the wire colors I mentioned in another post above.

If you put the key to ON, and the MAIN RELAY clicks/pulls in, then the Engine fuse is getting power from the ignition key when it is put to ON. If you jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and put the key to On, and the fuel pump works, then the ignition key is feeding power to IG1 row of fuses of which the ENGINE fuse is the most important (feeds main relays coil and powers the fuel pump).

That's enough double talk from me today.

 

hailers remember you told me to test the starter cut relay ....well i went back outside with my wife and i pulled the relay of and tested the wires you suggested and i have 12v to the wire in the socket so do you think the relay is bad...and can i get one from the dealer ...do they still make them?

 

If the wire your talking about is the large Black/Green wire in the socket, and it has 12vdc when the key is HELD to Start, and Start only, then I'd suspect the relay.

But, before I bought another relay, I'd make a jumper wire and bare it at each end. Stuff one end of that new wire into the socket where the black/green wire is and the other end into the socket that has the black/white wire. Then go to Start with the key. Starter should spin.

Look at the jp I attached in one of my other posts that shows the BLUE jumper plug found on cars with no Theft protection (which means they have no starter cut relay). All that Blue plug is doing, is what I just suggested above. Jumpers b/t the black/green and black/white in the plug.

If the starter does not spin with the jumper in, and you do have 12vdc on the black/green when the key is Held to Start, then in my opinion the black/white wire has an *open* from there to the starter solenoid. There is indeed one more elect plug b/t the b/w and the starter solenoid. Usually nobody ever disconnects that plug though.

Mazda dealer should have that relay or the junk yard. I'd try the jumper job before I ever bought another starter cut relay. Too much money.

When I talk about the Black/Green wire, I am talking about the LARGER black/green wire, NOT the small black/green.

 

oh hailers your the king of this forum ...when you said there has to be break if the starter cut relay if it light ups ...it dawned on me that i used to get that clicking then it would enventually start so i ran a relay to the solinoid wire then from the relay to the starter and that got rid of the clicking ...the problem was i stuck a spade in the b/w wire and it came apart ..i put it back togetherwith heat shrink and now my seven runs again ...thanks so much hailers for sticking it out with my problem ,cheers

 

Okedokey!

 

You owe him bigtime and we are all fortunate to have an electrical guru/junkie on this board who is willing to help many members with the electrical problems associated with our cars. I wish I had the "capacity" to look at a wiring diagram and not say "what in the hell." Hailers, take very good care of yourself and don't miss any medical checkups for we don't want you to "blow a fuse"!

 

i no hailers have saved us all trips to the dealer..and being very patent with us ...not like nzconvertable who thinks we should already no.....im also on a jaguar forum where i help people with there jags....but .not with the expertise like hailers ...once again thanks so much hailers

 

How 'bout that. I've owned two E-Types and one XK-140 (C type head) in the past. First engine I ever overhauled was a XK-120 engine using a factory manual. Now those were cars that knew how to leak oil from the pan and burn it in the engine. 12 quart pan in the 140 if memory serves. Just nine in the E-Types.

 

i was born in england , my neighbor had an e-type , i used to go over with my dad to help him rebuild the motor...and so i learned from there...so ive always been intrested with jaguars ..they always gave trouble but finally in the last decade they finally got i together and jd power rated them the top reliable car ....so i have a jaguar also, to tend with ,but i love my jaguar rx7 combination thanks again for your help