2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.
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Old 02-19-16, 01:50 AM
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Clokker,they sell a 1 inch wheel spacer on Jegs or summit.(like 20 bucks)
6 hole momo fit,that you can bring the wheel up from the hub.
Would that cure your horn button issue?
Old 02-19-16, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by misterstyx69
Clokker,they sell a 1 inch wheel spacer on Jegs or summit.(like 20 bucks)
6 hole momo fit,that you can bring the wheel up from the hub.
Would that cure your horn button issue?
I no longer have any clearance issues, there's plenty of room inside the Audi's center pad once the bag exploder thing is removed.

Funny thing about that airbag...
The yard is now charging $9 for the steering wheel itself and $25 for the center pad/airbag. I had already removed the ignitor (because I didn't want to pay for it) but they consider the unit intact if the bag hasn't deployed and charged full price anyway.
Then I had to sign some federal explosive device registry...even though said device was laying in the front seat of the donor car.
Stupid process.
Old 02-20-16, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by clokker
We were at the yard to get seatbelts and ended up with a set from a Honda.
I'm not convinced they are what we want but are certainly a start. Many times I find you need to just get something in place before you can see how to optimize the result.
In our case we have the stock mount points and few- if any- alternate options.
Our upper mount is on top of the strut tower and the retractor reel lies horizontally.
Turns out, the Honda reel is meant to sit vertically and the inertial lock only works in that orientation.
Learn something new every day.
I went back to the yard yesterday and pulled the rear belts from a 1988 Mercedes sedan.
They should be perfect- having learned from the Honda belts what wasn't OK.
They're even black, which is nice.

Tomorrow the main elements of the interior will all be in place, another major milestone.
We have two Rivnuts to install and the seats will be fully bolted in.

To recap, we have Honda Prelude seats, Mercedes seatbelts, an Audi A4 steering wheel, Lexus column switchgear and a Miata dash.
And it all should work.
I'll make sure to get pics tomorrow.

In a perfect example of having to do a job several times to get it right, S. has rejiggered the seat mounts three times to maximize headroom while maintaining full slider adjustment...I can't wait to try them. The only remaining issue will come after we Dynamat and carpet the car, clearances could get very tight but we'll deal with that when it happens. For now, getting the seat position finalized is the main objective.
With the seats finally fixed, I can begin to imagine the door armrest and center console, although it will be a while before I actually do anything. Sigfrid has been daily driving the Z and is quite happy so far. Happy enough to decide he wants to really paint the car, a decision I disagree with but there you have it. It IS his car, after all.

A follow-up on the windshield...
I gave up on the company and decided to fix it myself- "it" being the poorly fit top rubber trim. I went to a local Mazda dealer who was adamant that the trim was NLA and could not be ordered. Three days and $40 later, Mazdatrix had it in my hands.
Someone was pulling my leg, apparently.
Now to stuff it in place, which should be exciting.
Old 02-20-16, 12:21 PM
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Question: you said you had to put in two rivnuts. 1, are they for the seat belts and 2, what location and strength are you expecting?
Old 02-20-16, 02:29 PM
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The seatbelts will use the stock mount points, the Rivnuts are for the driver side outer slider mount.
They are going about 1" away from the original spot and are still on the reinforcing plate Datsun provided. They are 8mm, just as the OEM were.

I assume that underlying your question is the belief that Rivnuts are not the ideal solution here...and you may be right, I'd thought about it too. Unfortunately, our options are limited ATM, and this seemed like the best solution.

I try to maintain at least OEM levels of safety/good assembly practice but also have to manage our resources and remember what we're working with. The Z bodyshell is only marginally stronger than a sardine tin, the only crumple zone is you. If the seat should come loose, that might in fact save you from the engine bursting through the firewall.

Just kidding.

You're dead no matter what.
Old 02-20-16, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by clokker
The seatbelts will use the stock mount points, the Rivnuts are for the driver side outer slider mount.
They are going about 1" away from the original spot and are still on the reinforcing plate Datsun provided. They are 8mm, just as the OEM were.

I assume that underlying your question is the belief that Rivnuts are not the ideal solution here...and you may be right, I'd thought about it too. Unfortunately, our options are limited ATM, and this seemed like the best solution.

I try to maintain at least OEM levels of safety/good assembly practice but also have to manage our resources and remember what we're working with. The Z bodyshell is only marginally stronger than a sardine tin, the only crumple zone is you. If the seat should come loose, that might in fact save you from the engine bursting through the firewall.

Just kidding.

You're dead no matter what.
i lol'd

the OEM's don't seem to do anything special to put the seats in, which is unlike the seat belts. the brtish cars, as you recall are just a nut and bolt through the floor, which is better than some cars with captive nuts, as the nuts have an uncanny ability to escape...
Old 02-20-16, 03:32 PM
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You're bang on with that observation...our stock seatbelt mounts use 10 & 12 mm bolts (which we're using) but the seats themselves use only 8mm bolts (and we have no access to the underside to use nuts).
I guess the logic is that the belts will hold both the human AND the seat when all hell breaks loose.
Old 02-20-16, 09:31 PM
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Rivnuts are surprisingly strong though. I have never has any issue with their strength, only that they can be a pain in the butt to remove.

i saw above that you mentioned you were going to use Dynamat for the car. Being the budget minded individual you appear to be, check this stuff out.

Specials - B-Stock - Second Skin Audio

I purchased a few boxes for this stuff a while back and have been laying it out. It's not as bad as they make it sound (thickness-wise it's all rather even) and it's adhesive properties are really really good. I made the mistake of laying some down in the wrong spot. Left it for a weekend, then came back to it. There was a great weeping and gnashing of teeth to get it removed.
Old 02-21-16, 09:08 AM
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Thanks for the recommendation, I'll pass it on to S.
I use "dynamat" generically for sound deadening material, when the time comes I'm sure Sigfrid will explore several options. A lot will depend on the overall plan for the interior, which we're only now able to begin formulating.

I am terribly unhappy with my solution for horn/TS on the Audi wheel but as usual, I had to do it wrong in order to see what right looks like.
The main problem has been that I'm working on the assembly here at home and the car is at Sigfrid's, so a lot of critical dimensions have been guesses. Now that I've built the first iteration, I know what's necessary and can get the info today and make the part at home.
I won't need the wheel for this, so it can stay on the car and S. can begin to enjoy it...even if the horn and cancel don't work yet.

This is very common when you work as I do.
If you insist on using a grab bag of mismatched parts, sooner or later you reach the final interface, where nothing matches and it's up to you to figure it out.
And there I am.
Old 02-21-16, 02:26 PM
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Shoulda used this
Old 02-21-16, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ACR_RX-7

Shoulda used this
Shoulda, coulda...nope.

Instead we have this:

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Dunno why Photobucket is so bad with orientation...

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(These belts came from a 1988 MB 300 sedan, but have Volvo logos all over them. Seems odd.)

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The change is stunningly dramatic, I can't even say it's "better" because it just can't be compared to before. I'm sure that time will expose some shortcomings but our test drive (we both drove and rode) was simply grand.

With the major touch points finally fixed, we can begin building out the interior.

Mechanically, she seems peachy as well- no leaks, clunks or weirdnesses...except the brakes, which still need attention.

We're on the downside now.
Old 02-21-16, 08:23 PM
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Impressive, for sure. It's just amazing to see that many different brands lovingly thrust into the interior of an old Z. I'm assuming that all of the panel gaps in the interior will get sorted once carpet goes in?
Old 02-21-16, 08:33 PM
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Yes, much remains to be done.
The door panels for instance, are structurally sound but the covers are dated and no longer congruent with the ethos we're going for.
The center console is a crudely hacked stocker that's just a placeholder.
Turns out that a FC Shifter bezel/boot mates perfectly with the bottom of the Miata center stack. so I plan on incorporating that.

If that gaping airbag hole was gone, with a casual glance inside she'd look pretty complete.
Old 02-26-16, 11:45 AM
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Well, as predicted, daily driving has exposed some issues but Ratchet is working well in general.

Sigfrid finally became aware of the fuel pump whine, a noise that once heard cannot be ignored.
The seat belts are too short.
The offside rear tire occasionally rubs the fender lip, need to pull a little more.
The brakes still pull under hard use.

I'm not surprised, in fact, I'm comforted by these "complaints" because they're the kind of issues that only arise when the car is actually driven... and our car hasn't moved under it's own power in probably a decade.
Going from "We have no electrical system!" to "The seatbelt is too tight!" is major progress.

Over on the Z forum there is a very pertinent thread about converting from the stock FI setup to triple Webers and what to do about the fuel pump. Several of those guys continued using the stock high pressure FI pump with a bypass/return FPR (and the pressure cranked down from 36psi to the 4-5psi the Webers like) and have had no problems at all.
We're going to slot in my spare FC pump and see how it works.
No whine, please.

I dunno about the belts.
The Z has so few structurally acceptable spots to mount belts, it's tough to work with.
I'm thinking we might be best off just going to a new, manually adjusted three point harness and call it a day. I'm tired of searching the yard and don't expect to find anything better than what we now have anyway.

For some reason, S. thinks the solution to the brakes is to completely upgrade the whole system and go rear disc.
Sounds like fun to me but I have no idea where the money comes from.
I'd prefer to solve the problem with the setup we have, mainly because we haven't conclusively eliminated suspension/steering as the culprit.
We need to take another look or, maybe even better, find someone else to check it out.
This might be a case of being blind to a mistake you yourself made...it looked good when it went together, so it will always look right. Even when it's not.
Besides, with our sub 150rwhp, brakes are hardly an issue.

The rear wheel arch only needs to move about 1/8" to clear the tire and I think we'll just redneck pull it. The guy who rolled the lips around Christmas has disappeared and I can't find anyone else who advertises the service, so we're on our own.
At least with the Plastidip we don't have to worry about cracking paint.

I got my registration renewal for the FC and don't have to etest it next month, so pressure to hurry up my replacement build is off. Long as she keeps running, I can take my time.
I haven't done much thinking about it lately, been too consumed with the Z.
That will surely change, especially as the weather warms and I can bear the garage again.

We work on the Z again on Monday...probably be a whole new list of complaints by then.
Old 02-26-16, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by clokker
I'm not surprised, in fact, I'm comforted by these "complaints" because they're the kind of issues that only arise when the car is actually driven... and our car hasn't moved under it's own power in probably a decade.
Going from "We have no electrical system!" to "The seatbelt is too tight!" is major progress.
many huzzahs are in order, it is a big milestone!

for the seatbelt, you might look for something with a longer buckle, i presume its close. or even extend the buckle, i put a seat belt in an MGB and it had a lot of brackets to put the assembly in the car,

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Old 02-27-16, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by clokker
Over on the Z forum there is a very pertinent thread about converting from the stock FI setup to triple Webers and what to do about the fuel pump. Several of those guys continued using the stock high pressure FI pump with a bypass/return FPR (and the pressure cranked down from 36psi to the 4-5psi the Webers like) and have had no problems at all.
We're going to slot in my spare FC pump and see how it works.
No whine, please.
Yes that is exactly correct, but you would want to shoot for as low as 2-3 PSI (depending on altitude) with Webers and 6-6.5 PSI with the Holley. The key is the return style regulator and no restriction in the correctly sized return line. Remember that the pump does not produce pressure, it produces flow and is design to work effienetly in a certain pressure range. The regulator induces pressure by in the line by restricting that flow. By using a return style regulator you are reducing the amount of stress on the pump to get its work done. It should run quieter as well and not heat the fuel as much - compared with even a dead head regulator and a pump designed for a carburetor setup.

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Old 02-27-16, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by clokker
For some reason, S. thinks the solution to the brakes is to completely upgrade the whole system and go rear disc.
Sounds like fun to me but I have no idea where the money comes from.
I'd prefer to solve the problem with the setup we have, mainly because we haven't conclusively eliminated suspension/steering as the culprit.
We need to take another look or, maybe even better, find someone else to check it out.
This might be a case of being blind to a mistake you yourself made...it looked good when it went together, so it will always look right. Even when it's not.
Besides, with our sub 150rwhp, brakes are hardly an issue.
Okay there is an easy way to prove if the one of the rear drum brakes is not working correctly. Do you have an infrared thermometer or if not can you barrow one? Do several hard braking stops from speed where you are producing the hard pulling to one side effect. Have the passenger jump out and take readings on both the rear drums to find out if one is much cooler than the other. Also use the hand brake only to stop the car and see if it still pulls to one side. You can also do that a few times and check the rear drum temperatures. If you have one rear drum that is much cooler than the other - that is where you go to find the problem, which can have many causes.

If the rear drums are the same temperature, then you need to look at the suspension and it mounting points for issues.
Old 02-27-16, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by clokker
The rear wheel arch only needs to move about 1/8" to clear the tire and I think we'll just redneck pull it. The guy who rolled the lips around Christmas has disappeared and I can't find anyone else who advertises the service, so we're on our own.
At least with the Plastidip we don't have to worry about cracking paint.
Can you barrow an Eastwood kit? Heck they even rent them out on eBay and Craigslist. It is cheaper than buying one. I should know, I bought one to do all four wheel arches in my FC a few years ago and I haven't touched it since. Rather expensive one use tool to just sit in a box on the shelf in the garage.

You can always use the old Redneck wooden baseball bat method if you had to.
Old 02-27-16, 03:14 PM
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The Eastwood one is rather cheap, though. "Only" about $150 shipped. I have no idea how much people charge to roll fenders, but my friend just purchased one last year and we have done three cars so far with it. Fantastic tool.
Old 02-28-16, 11:20 AM
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To take advantage of a predicted beautiful day, we rescheduled our meet to work Saturday...and it was eerily springlike and nice.
+70° in February in Denver? Gotta love that.

I arrived at 9 with my list of projects and expected to see his list and decide what to do.
He was already elbow deep in the wiper cavity.
Wut?

The wipers work fine and to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't even used them.
Just got a wild hair and decided they could be marginally improved, so he started before I came, planning to be finished before I showed up.

I left at 6pm and the wipers no longer work at all.

It was the most fun I've had working on the Z in months.

Like everything else, the wiper system is a mishmash of parts, the linkage rods being a custom mishmash of 626 rod/ball ends and 3/8" aluminum rod.

If you draw a schematic of a wiper mechanism, it looks deceptively simple but trust me, it is anything but. The linkage rods go side>side, up>down and in>out...all within a weirdly confined space.
Plus, tiny changes are amplified by the "lever effect" and a few millimeters change at the spindle pivot turn into inches of difference at the wiper blade.

It was hilarious.
Really, it was.

After innumerable tweaks, bends and twists one of the rods finally broke.
It was inevitable.
In fact, we both knew it was coming and pressed on anyway.

Monday I'll go to the yard and get more linkage rods to work with and we'll start anew.
We have a plan of attack and may even be successful this time.
Maybe.

Personally, I'd go with one wiper on the driver side and copious amounts of RainX...call it a day.
Sigfrid is made of sterner stuff though, so we'll see.

Still, it was a good time, undiminished by our repeated failure.
Sometimes the bear really does eat you.
Old 02-28-16, 02:29 PM
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I got today what you had yesterday except a lot windier than usual for around here. Eerily springlike, yes. I can't wait. Congrats on the progress.
Old 03-03-16, 07:33 AM
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Another beautiful- albeit windy- day and more progress achieved.
Using linkage rods I'd sourced Monday, Sigfrid continued on- and eventually finished- the wiper system and believe me, it's a thing of beauty.

I know I've been nattering on about it but wipers are way more complex than you (or I, for that matter) would think and proper operation is tricky to attain. I thought we were done months ago but it truly is better now and I must applaud S.'s persistence and grasp of the nuances. He had a certain coverage pattern in mind and did not falter till he made it happen.
Now we can RainX the glass and probably never use the wipers again.

We also installed a bit more of the interior and I replaced my first version of the steering wheel adaptor (horn and TS cancel) with an upgraded piece I made Monday night. The horn slipring is perfect but the cancel collar needs more work. It'll get there.
Both the center pad and the thumb volume switches activate the horn, so you have options.

Pulled the passenger side rear wheel arch a bit and the tire no longer rubs.

She starts/idles/runs beautifully...I don't know how that happened but am greatly pleased anyway.

One bit of weirdness...
As the interior grows quieter the fuel pump whine is increasingly irritating, so as Sigfrid struggled with the wiper linkage, I rejiggered the fuel lines and reconnected the return from the FPR.
When I first hooked this all up the return was in place but the gauge at the carb only read 1psi and we wanted 5. So I ran it deadhead and we had a nice stable 5psi and she's been running fine ever since.
Except for the noise.

The easiest thing to do first was hook the return back up and voila!, pump noise cut by half immediately. Still shows 1psi at the float bowl inlet but WTF, let's try it.
Starts and runs fine.
Let her idle long enough to warm up and activate the fan (about 15 minutes) and still no fuel delivery problems. Finally, test rode to the gas station and...no problems. S. had a meeting last night which would involve some highway time, so we'll see how higher speed running is...I'm betting she was fine.
Apparently, the Holley is just fine with very low fuel pressure or our gauge is crap.
Don't really care, she runs great and the annoying whine is basically gone and that's all I wanted.

S. is not a fan of the Honda seats, the lower back bolstering just doesn't fit him right.
Soon as he's working again, new seats go to the top of the list.
I like 'em fine.
In any case, the MB seatbelts ain't cutting it.
They are almost at full extension in normal use and lock up constantly as you drive/move.
I measured their length and return to the yard today to hunt for a longer set.

We are very close to the completion of Phase One.
We never imagined it would take this long (coming up on three years!!??) but the Z is now essentially complete/functional and drivable and we can decide where to go from here.
Old 03-04-16, 10:15 AM
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Some days the junkyard giveth and some days it taketh away...yesterday was an unexpected bounty.
I went looking for better seat belts ("better"= "longer")- which I found in a Mazda and was happily on my way out when I saw a black Honda being forklifted in.
I went and paid for the belts- and a console armrest I'd also snagged- but couldn't shake my interest in the new, mystery Honda, so I went back in to check it out.

I was the first to get to the car and it was another Holy Grail junkyard moment.
Recall that I'd applied that tag just last week to the near mint Audi steering wheel...this Prelude (1995, as it happens) had the second half of the equation- a set of black cloth seats in unripped condition. In very good condition, nearly perfect.
And black.

From a technical standpoint, they should be easier to mount than the current set (for a variety of arcane reasons) and the shape/material should be a much better fit in our nascent interior design.

In twenty years of junking this is only the fourth set of sets I've ever pulled...good seats are that rare and it feels like these just fell into my lap. Of course, they were at the far end of the lot and I nearly stroked out humping them to the office, but I was bouyed by enthusiasm and am still quite chuffed.
I surprise Sigfrid with them later this afternoon...hope he's as thrilled as I because it will fall on him to install them.
Old 03-05-16, 09:08 AM
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And the magic continues.

Sigfrid was surprised by and ultimately, quite enthusiastic about the new seats and in a frenzied couple of hours (eight, actually), we got them installed.
With the new Mazda seatbelts.
Since Mazda and Honda both source their belts from Takata, the Mazda belts click right into the receivers on the Honda seats...very handy.

The structure of the new Prelude seats was similar to the other (Accord?) seats, so we were familiar with what needed to be done but wanted to do a neater job of it and thanks to a set of Corbeau>FD mounting plates- which have been sitting under my bed for years- we did.
I'd be happy to show the seat mounts to anyone, they look professional and well done and best of all, use all the stock chassis mount points (which line up perfectly).

As S. worked on the seats, I installed the seatbelts and more of the rear trim, including the subfloor.
We're only at the test fit stage, just taking a look at what we have but almost all the stock panels are at least loosely in position.

Before the pics, a warning...
The camera brutally exaggerates the flaws in the seat covers (especially the driver side bolster wear)- in real life they look perfectly acceptable and the cloth pattern is not nearly so distinct.
The seats are mainly black and the pattern a very dark grey.
Anyway:
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The style, fit and comfort are all superior-Sigfrid thinks that with new covers these could be "forever seats"...they're that good.
They are like really nice versions of the stock seats, the shape is identical but the bolstering much more defined and supportive.

Dare I say that the cabin is now a pretty nice place to be?
Yes, I do...she could be dailied with hardly any suffering at all.
Old 03-05-16, 09:35 AM
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agreed, those seats look like stock but better, so perfect!


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