I Hate Ricers

Hey there,

My friend, forum member DJGeque, is looking to get a nice Turbo II for his college car. It seems like S5 TIIs are much harder to find in the bay area than S4s, not to mention they also cost substantially more. So I ask you guys this: is the S5 really that much better? Style aside, is it worth the extra money? I know the S5 makes more power and what not but one could probably get the difference in power with the saved money on the S4.

The other thing is, is I can't seem to get a reliable number on how heavy the TIIs are. Some sites say they weigh almost the same, some book I read stated the S4 weighs a paltry 2800lbs....which is what I thought the s4 NA's weigh...

So, what is the actual curb weights of these two cars? My friend is hoping to find a sports car that doesn't weigh 3000lbs+

Thanks for the help and happy forum-ing!

neofreak

yes, it is worth it. I will not purchase a s4.

I've had 5 S5s. Not one has had a single electrical problem. No broken logicons, no screwed up clocks, no grounding problems. Pretty much the majority of the problems people complain about were solved. (Unless of course you start with one thats already beat up.)

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Discussed many times. Much better off with the '89/'91 if you can find one. In fact, Mazda bought my '88 back because of problems, that's how I got the '89 which I still have. Also, don't forget when the guys start talking about weight, remember, the S4 factory weight was without power steering and anti-lock brakes, which were standard on the S5. So if the S4 has PS and ABS add that the the factory weight and you'll find that's there's not a great deal of difference.

Madrx7racer

I agree with these guys.......S5's are S4's with the bugs worked out (for the most part). You CAN make as much power as an S5 motor and the S4 is not horrible looking but the fact that the car WILL be older and most likely have more problems due to age...

Icemark

Nah, those replies above are wrong.

I rebuild as many S5 parts (sometimes more; like wiper switches- S5 wiper switches are always failing They fail 50% more often than S4 ones even though they are almost identical inside) as I do S4 parts.

S5 cars are cheaper built, have more factory short cuts, lower quaility (except verts), and not any better at all for relability than the S4 versions. For example look at the paint on most S5 coupes... its all crap comparied to a S4.

The only reason that people claim that the S5s are better reliable is that the cars are not quite as old, so not as many parts have failed. But the micky mouse parts (like plastic end links on the suspension) make these car much more likely to have problems at the equivelent miles and age of the S4 car.

torean

thats funny...cause i refuse to buy s5s.......i hate the mouse track seatbelts

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Sorry Mark, but Mazda bought back my '88, and there is a tremeduous difference between the S4 and S5. Everything is more refined. Just look at the self diagnostic system for one, electrical system, cooling system, storage cover, Turbo wheels (light), taillights that most want, side skirts and front lip. Sorry to say, it was the best day of my life, when I drove into the dealership and dropped off the '88 Turbo and picked up the '89. As far as the paint, my Blaze Red looks like it just came out of the showroom, there is no faded areas.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

ditto

i'll stick with my lighter S4


as far as the thread goes, my original sales reciept has a claimed weight of 2632lbs shipped weight. all fluids full and a few gallons of fuel.


only big difference to me is a few minor things like tail lights, front bumper and a few minor interior differences. the internal engine differences are of no real difference when you start modding the engine.

also i really prefer my clutch type LSD rather than the viscous..

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Have you tried the viscious. Have had both, don't see any diffference. Mine still working at 177,000 miles, how about the clutch type guys?

I've asked this before and never got an answer. As Mazda changed the location of the trailing plugs in the S5 because they wouldn't fire after a short period of time in the S4, how did everyone overcome this problem? This is why Mazda bought the car back........NGK & Mazda engineers couldn't correct the problem, so how did everyone that has a S4 correct this. Any ideas even though it happened 16 years ago????????

turbo80cid

same here & the S4 looks waaaaaay better

1988 10th ann. only elec problem was the head light switch.
but I think mine was the heaviest except for the vert.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

That's only because you have S4's. If you think the S4 body is better then the S5, there's something wrong upstairs. They offered me a '88 AE in place of my TII, but I personally didn't like the bronze windows, white wheels and white lights. Sort of an albatross between the S4 and S5. It's like the Miata's. Every so often they come out with a special model. After receiving reports directly from Japan, I wanted to wait for the S5 with the updates. To each his own, because this debate is never ending. If you had an S5 that would be the best, but don't forget I've had both brand new, no comparison.

gerbraldy

LOL, good reason not to buy 'em either . The only thing better about an s5 is the front bumper.

turbo80cid

oh ya, I have an S5 engine and Trans.

So I like both!! does that make me "by"?

torean

well..personally....i like the way s5s look..if i can find a cheap doner car i would swap the upgraded goodies over(i have the s5 turbo and mani already but i want those extra 20HP and the high comp rotors)..but honestly.....it doesnt really matter to me....not like i look at those tail lights anyway.....im sure brand new 16 years ago....it was a substantial difference..but 16 years later..haha...we're fixing the same problems(rebuilding, replacing and rust) ...honestly.....s5s overall just isnt that much better than a s4....why would any company rid of the LSD option cause it was extra weight?.....and lets not talk about the electrical OMP..sure, 4 stage oil injection is probably enough for proper compression..but i still like the fact that s4s injected according to how heavy ur right foot is.....

and the comment about the mouse seatbelt.....the reason why i didnt like it was my first 7 was a 90gxl....cool leather shifter **** and leather all over...even got hatch cover too.....very nice if u ask me..but while i was working on it...i managed to get my head stuck in the window a few times......yes..call me an idiot...but honestly...i dont need the car to tell me to put on the seatbelt....having something like that just gives ppl a false sense of security that everything is ok....but in fact only ur chest is strapped in....im sure some ppl out there will flame me saying they use the lapstrap as well..but whatever....my s4 does what i want it to do ...sure the black bumper rub strip looks tacky.....but so does the interior....its 16 years old....im living with it....with the money i saved getting a s4...i could afford some upgrade goodies

*if u have a s5...DO NOT stick your head out the window while opening the door.....

Icemark

Yes I know you had a couple of particular problems in your particular model, and a few of the the 10thAEs did have a few querks even in the day, but nothing like the problems that the S5 coupes had in general.

But the S5 T2 is also much more a boulavard cruiser, than any other RX-7, so that does appeal to some people that found the S4 more elemental.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you can basically make a S5 turbo by removing the twin scroll flapper and actuator and porting the turbo inlet runners, i did this with mine and it spools just after 2K RPMs and peaks out at 3K in 5th.

the lighter rotors are nice but personally i would rather have the cushion of the lower compression rotors for safety reasons.

i haven't decided whether i like the S4 or S5 bumper better, personally i would much rather just off both of them and go with an aftermarket front bumper kit.

to me, there is such a tiny difference between S4 and S5 it isn't even worth a debate..

IaMtHeRuThLeSs1

interesting remarks mark...

I have a 90 coupe...Interior is in perfect condition, the only thing that went wrong electircally is that somehow my ebrake light is always on...big deal. I have 125k on mine too.

paint is in perfect condition also.

Cosmo_TT

iTrader: (11)

poor guy who started this thread still has not got an answer for the weight of an s4 and an s5
LOL

Cosmo_TT

iTrader: (11)

hey Ben you need the turbo and manifold right?
hope my manifold isnt too bad off
it has a couple small cracks but i dont think they go all the way through

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

yep, if you want the twin scroll removed i will need both the turbo and manifold. cracks are common, i have many in mine because of the abuse they take from the rotary engine, it will be fine with the smaller cracks still.


i was wrong about the weight, it is actually 2625lbs shipped, this is usually with a couple gallons of gas and all fluids relatively full with no passenger, the shipped weight is in the upper right hand portion of this pic of my sale reciept. car has no p/s and has fabric seats. all other standard options.

Marcus_F

YMMV

My 1989 S5 is currently at 433,000+ miles:

1st engine lasted 367,000+ miles
Transmission has never been rebuilt
Original alternator lasted over 400,000 miles (it was rebuilt)
The steering rack seals failed after 400,000 miles (bought a reman'd rack)
The AC compressor died after 400,000 miles (replaced w/new Mazda parts)
The interior plastic bits are all original
Original TPS
Original E-OMP
The wiper switch has failed/been rebuilt twice (or is it three? IceMark knows)
The headlight switch has been replaced once

Radiators, brakes, hydraulics (clutch and brakes), countless sets of tires, hoses, belts, and every other consumable is just that, a consumable. I just replace things as they break, and don't let them pile up.

As for advice, the prospective buyer should purchase whichever series they like. It's been my experience that these are surprisingly well built cars and regular maintenance will reward the owner. The poor maintenance schedules followed by many youngsters pays off too. It lets us old timers buy parts on the cheap when they're parted out.

Icemark

yep, Your's ia a prime example of a properlly kept car (regardless of series). Properlly maintained, the will last seemingly forever again regardless of series.

and BTW: the switch works (both on the bench, and in a car) perfect so it looks like you will be looking for a wiper motor

Swany

I have a S4 with S5 tails and a S5 Hybrid turbo. I think those are the only things I really care for on the S5. I like the lower compression rotors in the S4. The extra 15 or whatever HP will really not change 1/4 mile times or anything. Plus once you start doing heavy mods that 15 Hp will be made up fast. I like the S4 because they are cheaper and Digital Tuning has made ECU upgrades for the S4 for those of us who dont wanna go full stand alone or cant afford it. It will be pretty sweet when they come out with 2.0v as it will be just like a stand alone.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Guess I better post the weight via sales brochure. The '88TII, brochure lists weight as 2850 lbs and the '89 TII 2978 lbs. That's 128 lbs difference, but like I said earlier, the '89 had p.s. and abs standard, so if they were remove not much weight difference...What, maybe 90 lbs heavier?

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

I think if any RX-7 deserves the title of best boulevard cruiser, it's the normally aspirated convertible. Let's face it - they were a little slower. The S5 TII and S4 TII were comparable performance wise. So, everybody has an opinion.

S4 vs. S5, it all comes down to personal preference. I've owned two S5s, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't own an S4. They both have their strong points.