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S5 Tii Oil > Turbo pics?

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Old 09-18-10, 11:53 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Jobro
6port turbos go hard, chill out.
ima not so sure the basic block is a 6 port,, certainly the pump and timing cover are 6 p s4 ones

asides pulling inlet manifold off ,, would have to see if the oil supply banjo is on the front of the block ( near the CAS ) to determine if the engine was originally turbo or not

if it is a 6 port,, with an already modded turbo LIM to suit it,, i call that a win

myself,, looks like a youngster has put the NA stuff onto a turbo block to get around insurance drama

for the OP,, at the very least , the motor needs to come out for the swap to a turbo timing cover ( to get the drain point )

if it proves 6 port,, turbo oil can be taken from a flare coupling tapped under the oil filter pedestal
( alternatively there is already made adapters suit this )

BTW,, currently ( on LPG ) i use a hybrid 6 port engine, with s5 highflow turbo
( with s4 timing cover, mech OMP and modded drain pipe )

i would ( and have ) picked that combo time and time again,, with over ten years experience with turbo 6 ports ,, i go there by choice
Old 09-19-10, 12:15 AM
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Okay. That makes me feel a bit better about things...

Sort of.

Now that you mention it, I believe I actually have one of those oil filter adapters that you're talking about... Has a couple of fittings that enable running other bits like a gauge or run an external line? I think it's Billet?

So let's assume that it's an NA... With (allegedly) a TII Harness and ECU. What now? Run from that filter adapter to a line to the turbo and re-feed the return to some nether-region and be done with it (outside of fixing the OMP lines)?

As well, could the AFM being where it is cause the same symptoms of secondaries going out at 4k?

I asked this one, earlier, but no response.

1Sweet7: I posted a pair of links to videos, earlier and didn't hear anything back. If I get to the shop, tomorrow, I'll take more pics of the engine bay and be ubrt **** about it.
Old 09-19-10, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TrboSpdAnt
Okay. That makes me feel a bit better about things...

Sort of.

Now that you mention it, I believe I actually have one of those oil filter adapters that you're talking about... Has a couple of fittings that enable running other bits like a gauge or run an external line? I think it's Billet?

So let's assume that it's an NA... With (allegedly) a TII Harness and ECU. What now? Run from that filter adapter to a line to the turbo and re-feed the return to some nether-region and be done with it (outside of fixing the OMP lines)?

As well, could the AFM being where it is cause the same symptoms of secondaries going out at 4k?

I asked this one, earlier, but no response.

1Sweet7: I posted a pair of links to videos, earlier and didn't hear anything back. If I get to the shop, tomorrow, I'll take more pics of the engine bay and be ubrt **** about it.
the 4k staging stutter is usually related to the earths on the looms not being good enough anymore
( or just neglectfully forgotten dangling somewhere )
there is umpteen million posts for fixes for it,, some work,, others don't,, bit of witchcraft for some ECU's

simple maintenance to find all these correct earths and clean them up works best

sometimes the fault is not correctable, even with other ECU's,, the fault i believe is in the cable joins and the sums of the resistances affecting anything with a 5V signal

these ones demand aftermarket ECU's,, as they can be very difficult to sort and cost mega man hours

otherwise,, yes,, AFM's can and do get flat spots and shorts in the signal range
- so do TPS's ,, and both of these should be viewed with suspicion and swapsy suck see
( and re-calibrated at every throttle fiddle )

as for the OMP,, ima all for keeping it,, just getting it functional is a good thing
- replacement lines can be made from teflon hoses from the lawn mower shop
- the linkage is also easily replaced with a sheathed bicycle cable if required to eliminate binding

as for the harness + oil line, correct, just be sure that devices like map and AFM match the ECU
ie,, NA senders for NA ECU,, vichy versa,,, and s5 for s5
if you have s4 ECU,, turbo ones are N318/9 ( jap and aus ) and i think for US is N331/2
( but may use N318 senders )

if you have N326/7 ( s4 NA ) or N350/1 ( s5 NA ) on the ECU,, senders must be appropriate

( s5 turbo is N370 + )
Old 09-19-10, 10:59 AM
  #29  
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someone slapped a turbo on a N/A engine and called it a day.
Old 09-19-10, 12:37 PM
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...And a FMIC, and a BOV, and some piping and (allegedly) a TII harness and ECU...

But, all-in-all, that's right.
Old 09-19-10, 03:31 PM
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pull the carpet up by the passengers feet and check the number on the ECU. What's the part number on the pressure sensor? What type of fuel injectors are installed?
Old 09-19-10, 10:28 PM
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When I go into the shop, tomorrow, I'll take a ****-ton of pictures and post 'em, as well as more info that I find out, from doing a thorough look-over.
Old 09-20-10, 09:28 PM
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Okay... While I was at the shop, today, I did some digging...

BOTH the ECU and the boost reference sensor are numbered N370. So per the marvelous post, by "Bumpstart", that means they're S5 turbo bits, right?

As well, there IS NOT a bolt for a banjo fitting, on the front iron, behind the CAS.

I *DO* have, however the billet adapter that's used at the oil filter, with fittings on it for sending out oil...

Hehehehe.

As well, the back of the OMP has the puller for the linkage to be attached, but no linkage actually there (go figure). As well, FloRotory and I were talking, on the phone and I mentioned that all of the oil-feed lines from the OMP to the oil injectors were wadded up and severed... As well as the injector lines, themselves (capped off).
Old 09-20-10, 09:45 PM
  #34  
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sounds like a 6 port turbo. the only true way to find out is taking the lower intake manifold off as ppl stated previously. It dont take much time at all.
Old 09-20-10, 10:08 PM
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it is sounding like a half converted six port engine

OK,, N370 is s5 ECU ,, now this ,, in your situ is BAD
you have a s4 timing cover ( mechanical OMP ) the s5 ECU NEEDS to see a functional s5 EOMP else it will limp

s4 ECU ( turbo ) and all its sensors is a viable goer for the project
( though myself would always lean to the aftermarket stuff as it opens up heaps of power and removes the silly factory cuts )

in oz,, the factory ecu isnt the done thing,, so much as it is in the US,, and for that you must reference the already vast materials on the subject here within


take of the LIM to make sure that the inlet is in fact modded to suit the engine
if it is,, it will have been welded up,, faced,,
and cut with the 6 port pattern to match the 6 port runners that are ( if its a 6p ) on the block

its not a hard job to do,, just time consuming,, should you be required to do it yourself
-


( note this one has a modded plenum added )


the mech OMP can be restored ( on the new timing cover with a drain )
if you use Teflon fuel hose for a small garden motor and a bicycle sheathed cable


also care to check the rear plate under the oil pedestal
if there is a diagonal wedge under the pedestal base leading to the front edge of the oil dowel,, its a s5 block
( potentially with 9.7 compression )

however,, water pump and timing cover as is suggest its all a s4 NA block,, though has same porting
has slightly different leading plug position ( same as mazda factory race PP housings )
and a more boost suitable 9.4:1 and thicker cast rotors


in your shoes form here i would be thinking about a ECU change
potentially i think over there ( where you are ) is a rtek that might work with your wiring and get oround the ecu/eomp limp

else it would be haltech sprint re FTW

also,, lets get some pics up to ID your injectors,, potentially they may be NA ones
( number on the side tells ! )
Old 09-20-10, 10:46 PM
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Amazing you ask. In about 5 mins, I post.
Old 09-20-10, 11:01 PM
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New Pics (Starting with the requested):



No return on Water-pump housing:



No banjo fitting, Aft of the CAS, on front Iron:



Oil-Pressure Sender not connected (Evidence that FloRotory is a genius:




Oil Squirter lines plugged:




OMP lines globbed together:





On the lucky side, I'm trailering the car, home, from my shop, tomorrow. That way I don't have the problem of the, "I'll look tomorrow, when I'm at work,' crap.


Anything else I need to look for?
Old 09-21-10, 12:09 AM
  #38  
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for a kicker,, you have s5 turbo fuel rails,, and what look like late s4 turbo hi ohm square plug ( ev1 ) injectors
( need the number really as the colours all fade the same on these )


( looking like you have the full franken find )

its definately a 6 port block,, just from the staked bung near the CAS

we need to know if the turbo inlet manifold is modified correctly,, needs to come off to see the mods i have shown above

can you count the bolts/ studs that are in the water pump pattern??
( ignore any bolt head that just holds a wiring clip )

8 bolts is s5 pump ( will have a 3 bolt thermo neck bolted up )
7 bolts is the original s4 one,,,and has a two bolt neck ,, sometimes with a radiator filler point and cap on top
( cause real early rads have no cap )
at any rate,, its an NA item,, as its lacking the coolant ( turbo ) return on the suction pipe
[ as said above,, just use the wax cam/ bacv water sources ]

but from here its all looking like a s4 block,, also take pic at the underside of the oil filter base
also,, pic of the housing spark plugs
( s5 have a bossing above them for a knock sensor ,, s4 not )

----------
if it proves a s4 6 p block,,with a modified turbo inlet manifold and turbo injectors
all you need is the rtek or other ecu choice
( which always prove far better options to trouble shooting the old mazda crap )
and a decent fuel pump ( run from a new relay !! )
and that timing cover swap for the turbo drain
if the current drain pipe doesnt fit,, the normal practice ( with modded 12a covers usually )
is to cut the end off ( leaving a small straight section after the flex hose part ) , weld a couple of spot around the rim to hold the hose clamp on it,,
and fit a oil resistant hose to it to the timing cover
Old 09-21-10, 12:33 AM
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You bought a pile of junk. Don't try to boost an old N/A engine. The engine is already almost dead. It's 20+ years old and most likely abused. Even if you get the turbo hooked up the engine will run rough if you're using that ECU. I would sell the car or part it out.
Old 09-21-10, 12:40 AM
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Which is why you don't own the car; I do.

As well why I've never had someone ELSE work on my car; I've done it, myself.

Secondarily, this is the 5th RX7 that I've owned and yet the FIRST that's been this much of a mystery to debug OR decode.

Now... If you're finished?

No petty, snipey or unhelpful criticism is wanted nor needed.

That is all. You are dismissed. *pat-pat-pat*

NONE-THE LESS!

I win the award for the best FrankenFind and the least amount of money spent (none).

Ha-HA!
Old 09-21-10, 02:43 AM
  #41  
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i like your never say die attitude,,, reaps the best grins when it finally works
yes,, you may well have an NA motor,, and even an NA car,, never mind,, so do i

it would be nice to know if you have a turbo gearbox or any other of the fruit that they have to find the limits of what is swapped into what

i also point out that once sorted with converted manifolds and ECU etc,,further NA motors if required are generally easy to find cheaply and exchanged quickly
( even more in the US than australia )

get us some pics of the driveline and also the VIn number at the firewall so the decode can happen
Old 09-21-10, 10:07 PM
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Such an attitude was solidified serving six-and-a-half years in the U.S. Army.... 3 of which was SOF... Why say die? It just reaffirms the negative

Since the Engine was supposedly swapped, I don't think that it would help any about the VIN. Oddly enough the OTHER engine stuff I've got has a VIN on the housing...

HOWEVER!

When I got the car, I got a ****-TON of parts with it, which I have yet to fully categorize, but are now sitting in my garage! Yes, the FrankenSeven made it home.... Now for the knifing!

From what I DID look over, I have mixed NA and Tii parts, but have found the following:

S5 Tii front cover (as determined by the location of the oil return, for the turbo);
Tii Water-pump housing (As illustrated by the additional little tube on the neck of the bottom hose's housing) - though WHICH is indeterminate;
Full RB NA dual exhaust (Not going to be used)
Full 4" step down to 3" DP back exhaust with RB resonator (Gigetty);
Billet Oil filter adapter for running oil supply lines (which covers all the bases for oil feed and return, to turbo);
Tii Oil-Fill Neck (Double 90° bend);
I *THINK* - comparing it to pictures, OMP hose squid;
Spare Rotor Housing and Rotor;
Tii Clutch - Great life, but not so good on the surface (rust from the damned Florida humidity);
Both Coil assemblies (never hurts to have a spare!);
Eccentric Shaft + Counter-weight...

NTM some other kick-*** bits.

Don't be surprised, once I get this project finished, I start a FS thread of the remaining bits (If anyone has anything to trade, let me know; I'm down).

Last edited by TrboSpdAnt; 09-21-10 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Think outside the box? 'What box,' I ask.
Old 09-21-10, 11:48 PM
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Sooo... Just out of sheer compulsion, (after, literally, PRYING myself away from starting to do a tear-down, of the engine) I went rooting through some if the parts that came with the car (though I DID manage to move the damned AFM to the compressor inlet, on the turbo!)...

In addition to the stuff listed, above, I also found another alternator, 2 CAS, 2 more Throttle-body assemblies, the ENTIRE A/C system, OEM airbox, S4 AFM (flap-door), ANOTHER S5 AFM (plunger), an 'ARS' (Atkins) Rotor housing (#030201), a full set of Irons, an S4 front cap, an S5 front Cap, an S4 water pump housing AND the S5 Tii Water-pump housing...

Here're just a couple of pics:

S5 Tii Front cap (with ANOTHER CAS) - Pic 1:


S5 Tii Front cap (with ANOTHER CAS) - Pic 2:


Tii Oil filler:


S5 Tii Water pump housing (with 3-bolt fill neck):


Forgot to take pic of OMP hose squid, but no biggie.

In addition, I have a newly rebuilt S4 front and rear assembly (complete with new main seals)!

This is starting to look better and better!

FloRotory was saying I've just about got everything I need to do this whole bit, in about a day... Maybe. I can see a couple of days, given the random unforeseeable, like needing some dumb ****.

Though, all0in-all, I think I'm doin' pretty well!

Good thing I also have an 06 Nissan Maxima (VG30 Engine) and an 08 Tundra (for hauling the 7.


Last edited by TrboSpdAnt; 09-21-10 at 11:49 PM. Reason: Gigetty.
Old 09-22-10, 07:09 PM
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So the UIM and TB all came off and the engine got a bath....

The injectors ARE, in fact, Tii injectors (as verified by FloRotoy, via conference call), so THAT much I'm good with.

While checking codes, it shot about a DOZEN out, at me. That damned Check Enigne light was flashing so much I thought it was a damned rave; almost gave me a ******* seizure!

None-the-less.

Will put some wrenching in and post an update, in a day or two.

Thanks for the help, so far, guys!
Old 09-22-10, 07:23 PM
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No prob. No run those damn oil and coolant lines hehe
Old 09-22-10, 08:00 PM
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I know I need to... As far as they go, it's just a matter of swapping **** around.

First I gotta pull the front housing THEN the front cap... Then I'll still need to get that damned oil feed and return line...

FACK!

BTW: You need to let me know when you're coming up, so I know what day to take from going to the shop. If you've git any lines and or hoses, you could bring them with, as well.
Old 09-22-10, 08:59 PM
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Ill have to see. I have a meeting on my day off next week so ill have to see. I dont have any lines. I PM'D someone about some, ill forward the reply to you
Old 09-23-10, 12:07 AM
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I didn't mean the hoses/ lines that we KNOW I need. I meant, like extra fuel or vac.

BTW: Front housing's coming off, tonight... If nothing else, the waterpump assembly, for SURE!

UIM and Injectors are off, Alternator, off (BTW: What's the stock NA and Tii part number for that?), hoses are all disconnected and It's about to come off.

Anyone know of a way to get out a broken bolt? I was pulling the new filler neck off to put a new thermostat in it and one of them gave up the ghost. It's soaking in OB Blaster, now.

All I need to do is line up the engine via some marker that's on the main pully, but not seeing one (I thought it was green, but seeing a reddish dot and a yellowish one.
Old 09-23-10, 02:58 AM
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alternators will have the same N-3XX codes as the ECU's though there is the odd one about
( like i have an N349 alternator,, = n350 = NA s5 )

anything that is designed for N350 onwards has dual B+ wiring and a different regulator trigger wiring
( N 350 + have the trigger across the battery , live all the time,, unlike s4 which is ignition switched )

pulley marks are yellow leading ( 5 ATDC ) and red trailing ( 20 ATDC )

PS
BEFORE you undo the front pulley bolt,, you must read up and be aware about the "torrington trap" that can potentially ruin the engine
you MUST have the engine resting vertically back on the flywheel , pulley skywards
so as to avoid pinching this sensitive bearing deep inside the timing cover stack
Old 09-23-10, 03:53 AM
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Well, I've stopped for the evening and this is how I fared:

Fixed some vac lines, installed FD OPSU, installed Lamco oil adaptor (for oil source to turbo), removed UIM and both fuel rails, but not before giving a de-greasing bath, installed vacuum 'squid' to oil-squirters, swapped S4 NA water pump housing with S5 Tii unit (and water pump), tracked down all of those pesky exhaust bolts (DP > Turbo, Turbo > manifold, manifold > engine), unbolted all mount-points on front housing and ran into a snag...

How do I lock the engine in place to get the pulley off? I've got all of the smaller pulleys off (the drive ones), but the MAIN pulley has a freakin' 19mm bolt in it, at I'm at a loss.

I used to have the tool, but lost that puppy a couple of years ago, so with that in min: How do I proceed!?

As well, I found out (verified) that the S4 NA OMP will not work on the S5 Tii housing. The bolt-pattern is different and the S5 has 3 bolts, as opposed to 2 on the S4.

****... NOW I need to source a new damned OMP to replace the perfectly good one, I have.

(Notation: The S5 NA front cap has the place for the turbo oil return line, but it isn't tapped and threaded; FYI.)

Oh, yeah! I found the return hose that is about 6" long that connects to the front cap! Woo0HOO!

No feed line, though, alas, but with that adapter I can run a line to the turbo.

Any help?


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