S5 T2 Standalone
06-13-16, 02:55 PM
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S5 T2 Standalone
Thinking of going standalone, but don't know a whole lot about it. I want to stay as stock as possible performance wise. I'm mainly looking at reliability improvements. Some of those older emission items are getting more rare and expensive when you can find them. I'm also concerned that with a lot of standalone systems you lose the check engine light. I found a few "step by step, this is how you do its" for other rx7's but not a 90 t2. What do I need to buy, what can I get rid of, and how to tune? Is there a "just unplug the ECU and plug this in" kind of system out there for sale?
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
06-14-16, 04:39 PM
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Keith, take a look at this on Mazdatrix: 89-92 RX7 Platinum Sport 1000 Plug and Play (HAL-HT051321)
I have never gone standalone for a daily driver so I can't comment on that but they are great for track cars.
Hope this helps.
I have never gone standalone for a daily driver so I can't comment on that but they are great for track cars.
Hope this helps.
06-14-16, 07:23 PM
#4
for emissions, you only really have the power FC, which can be wired to run all that stuff.
the check engine light is the real issue, i always simply made it a follow me dummy light and tied it to another light, like ABS or airbag. few lights run diagnostic checks and remain lit for a few seconds so the choice is limited.
the check engine light is the real issue, i always simply made it a follow me dummy light and tied it to another light, like ABS or airbag. few lights run diagnostic checks and remain lit for a few seconds so the choice is limited.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 06-14-16 at 07:25 PM.
06-15-16, 09:16 AM
#5
MECP Certified Installer
By the time the check engine light comes on in an FC, the car already doesn't run in most cases, it's worthless.
The car is 27 years old, so most states don't give 2 craps about emissions. With a stand alone ecu, you can delete the stupid OMP, the stupid ACV, the stupid AWS, the stupid AFM, and run speed density. All the stupid equipment I just mentioned is what will most likely trigger a check engine light.
The car is 27 years old, so most states don't give 2 craps about emissions. With a stand alone ecu, you can delete the stupid OMP, the stupid ACV, the stupid AWS, the stupid AFM, and run speed density. All the stupid equipment I just mentioned is what will most likely trigger a check engine light.
06-15-16, 05:48 PM
#6
he lives in california, none of the above applies in that state.
they will check the check engine light to see if it functions, they will test the EGR physically, they will check for modifications and aftermarket cat, they will check for anything that even remotely looks non factory, if it doesn't fail any of that then it has to pass the sniffer which is the real test.
i believe the OP was concerned about that stuff, hence my answer, because though the PFC isn't made for the FC but it does have control over most of those stock parts because the FD has them and can be adapted for the S5 without too much hassle.
i sold lots of emissions parts to californians, stuff 10 years ago people were ripping off their cars.
they will check the check engine light to see if it functions, they will test the EGR physically, they will check for modifications and aftermarket cat, they will check for anything that even remotely looks non factory, if it doesn't fail any of that then it has to pass the sniffer which is the real test.
i believe the OP was concerned about that stuff, hence my answer, because though the PFC isn't made for the FC but it does have control over most of those stock parts because the FD has them and can be adapted for the S5 without too much hassle.
i sold lots of emissions parts to californians, stuff 10 years ago people were ripping off their cars.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 06-15-16 at 05:51 PM.
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06-17-16, 08:08 AM
#9
MECP Certified Installer
woops, I completely missed his location.
Damn, are you EVER exempt in the state of california? Texas is hardcore until the day you hit 25yrs old from date of manufacture and they stop caring.
Damn, are you EVER exempt in the state of california? Texas is hardcore until the day you hit 25yrs old from date of manufacture and they stop caring.
06-18-16, 09:00 AM
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06-18-16, 09:15 AM
#12
10 years to move it up 6 years, so you got another 10 years before 1987 comes along... lol
even then, keep all your emissions equipment set aside, because modifying any emissions equipment is still not ok by the law. they just haven't been hassling the older cars about it because they already had almost no emissions on them.
even then, keep all your emissions equipment set aside, because modifying any emissions equipment is still not ok by the law. they just haven't been hassling the older cars about it because they already had almost no emissions on them.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 06-18-16 at 09:18 AM.
06-18-16, 10:50 AM
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Opening a can of worms here, but theoretically, any standalone with enough outputs (higher end Haltechs, MS3x/MS3-Pro, etc.) could run the factory emissions equipment. All of it is just an on/off signal at the correct time. The training manuals do contain a lot of this information, and the FSM some of it. What's missing can be gathered before the conversion via datalogging.
One could also eliminate all the junk not needed because there's a better computer running it. For example, the hot start fuel pressure solenoid, or the mechanical thermowax. Don't know if that stuff is tested in California specifically but the parts could be gutted/modified and let as dummy parts. While the standalone happily compensates for hot start electronically and uses the BAC to cold idle the engine.
EGR would be trivial. ACV should be easy too as when the valve switches is documented in the FSM/training. In fact maybe those documentations can be ignored and the ACV simply controlled based on AFRs and engine load.
Not that I would ever suggest this approach for a beginner.
One could also eliminate all the junk not needed because there's a better computer running it. For example, the hot start fuel pressure solenoid, or the mechanical thermowax. Don't know if that stuff is tested in California specifically but the parts could be gutted/modified and let as dummy parts. While the standalone happily compensates for hot start electronically and uses the BAC to cold idle the engine.
EGR would be trivial. ACV should be easy too as when the valve switches is documented in the FSM/training. In fact maybe those documentations can be ignored and the ACV simply controlled based on AFRs and engine load.
Not that I would ever suggest this approach for a beginner.
06-18-16, 11:29 AM
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Opening a can of worms here, but theoretically, any standalone with enough outputs (higher end Haltechs, MS3x/MS3-Pro, etc.) could run the factory emissions equipment. All of it is just an on/off signal at the correct time. The training manuals do contain a lot of this information, and the FSM some of it. What's missing can be gathered before the conversion via datalogging.
One could also eliminate all the junk not needed because there's a better computer running it. For example, the hot start fuel pressure solenoid, or the mechanical thermowax. Don't know if that stuff is tested in California specifically but the parts could be gutted/modified and let as dummy parts. While the standalone happily compensates for hot start electronically and uses the BAC to cold idle the engine.
EGR would be trivial. ACV should be easy too as when the valve switches is documented in the FSM/training. In fact maybe those documentations can be ignored and the ACV simply controlled based on AFRs and engine load.
Not that I would ever suggest this approach for a beginner.
One could also eliminate all the junk not needed because there's a better computer running it. For example, the hot start fuel pressure solenoid, or the mechanical thermowax. Don't know if that stuff is tested in California specifically but the parts could be gutted/modified and let as dummy parts. While the standalone happily compensates for hot start electronically and uses the BAC to cold idle the engine.
EGR would be trivial. ACV should be easy too as when the valve switches is documented in the FSM/training. In fact maybe those documentations can be ignored and the ACV simply controlled based on AFRs and engine load.
Not that I would ever suggest this approach for a beginner.
my friend did this with his miata, and he had a hard time getting it to pass, just tuning it to 14.7:1 isn't enough, and in that case we knew nothing about the timing Mazda ran, so it took him a few tries.
06-18-16, 03:44 PM
#15
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basically that is correct, although technically changing the ecu is a no/no. the fuel pressure solenoid and the thermowax aren't emissions parts, so they aren't checked. penalties are very high for the smog guy if the car is caught though, so most smog guys are really skittish if there is anything not stock.
my friend did this with his miata, and he had a hard time getting it to pass, just tuning it to 14.7:1 isn't enough, and in that case we knew nothing about the timing Mazda ran, so it took him a few tries.
my friend did this with his miata, and he had a hard time getting it to pass, just tuning it to 14.7:1 isn't enough, and in that case we knew nothing about the timing Mazda ran, so it took him a few tries.
But he'll be good as long as everything works, like Aaroncake stated
06-19-16, 09:42 AM
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Put the standalone board in the stock ECU case. 
Actually one can even get a PNP Denso Megasquirt case housing an MS3-Pro board inside that gets jumpered to the connector based on the application. Theoretically, of course, a spare output could be a CEL.
Actually one can even get a PNP Denso Megasquirt case housing an MS3-Pro board inside that gets jumpered to the connector based on the application. Theoretically, of course, a spare output could be a CEL.
06-19-16, 11:37 AM
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the CEL is funny, as they don't check for codes for an OBDI car, they just make sure the light turns on with the key and then turns off for the test. so the CEL is a minor problem, in the scheme of things.
06-19-16, 11:57 AM
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just to enumerate our procedure in California, just for the people who live in more friendly places it goes like this.
when you buy a new car it doesn't need an emissions test for i think 4 years, but after that every 1975-2012 model year car gets an emissions test every two years. in 2019 this changes to 1981+
if we do not get an emissions test, we do not get registration.
the car also gets an emissions test if it gets sold, unless it had one within 90 days of the sale.
there are two parts to the test, the first and hardest part is the visual.
the tech looks at all of the emissions equipment, to make sure it is present.
he is allowed to check for function, usually they check the EGR to make sure it works. they will verify timing if its easy
this includes the cat(s), which if replaced, need to have the correct CARB number on them.
they have a giant book, which lists all the emissions equipment for just about every car, so they do know what to look for.
if a car is pulled over and found to be recently smogged, and extensively modified, there is a big penalty for the smog test guy, so they do not like to see anything not stock, even vacuum hoses that aren't black make them skittish.
the second part is the actual emissions test.
the 1996+ cars get plugged into the smog computer, and it looks for codes and to see if the monitors are set. the tech has the option of running the car on a dyno test with the sniffer in the tailpipe.
the 1975-1995 cars get a dyno test. also the evaporative system, and gas cap are checked for leaks. it is basically an IM240 style test, although our limits are much lower than most others. Arizona and japan are allowed around 220ppm of HC's, and we're allowed about 90.
the "non enhanced" counties get a stationary emissions test, where they just do idle and 2500rpm.
the dyno test is actually much much easier, basically anything will pass, my personal lowest score was a 1980 MGB, followed by a 200k mile FC. highest was my mom's 2003 mercedes wagon. the stationary test is HARD, especially for an Rx7.
so basically we have two parts to the test, that are not too bad separately, get kind of tricky when put together. plus we have to do it fairly often.
unless you live in a county where they don't have an emission test, then you get to skip this whole nonsense, which i find remarkably unfair
when you buy a new car it doesn't need an emissions test for i think 4 years, but after that every 1975-2012 model year car gets an emissions test every two years. in 2019 this changes to 1981+
if we do not get an emissions test, we do not get registration.
the car also gets an emissions test if it gets sold, unless it had one within 90 days of the sale.
there are two parts to the test, the first and hardest part is the visual.
the tech looks at all of the emissions equipment, to make sure it is present.
he is allowed to check for function, usually they check the EGR to make sure it works. they will verify timing if its easy
this includes the cat(s), which if replaced, need to have the correct CARB number on them.
they have a giant book, which lists all the emissions equipment for just about every car, so they do know what to look for.
if a car is pulled over and found to be recently smogged, and extensively modified, there is a big penalty for the smog test guy, so they do not like to see anything not stock, even vacuum hoses that aren't black make them skittish.
the second part is the actual emissions test.
the 1996+ cars get plugged into the smog computer, and it looks for codes and to see if the monitors are set. the tech has the option of running the car on a dyno test with the sniffer in the tailpipe.
the 1975-1995 cars get a dyno test. also the evaporative system, and gas cap are checked for leaks. it is basically an IM240 style test, although our limits are much lower than most others. Arizona and japan are allowed around 220ppm of HC's, and we're allowed about 90.
the "non enhanced" counties get a stationary emissions test, where they just do idle and 2500rpm.
the dyno test is actually much much easier, basically anything will pass, my personal lowest score was a 1980 MGB, followed by a 200k mile FC. highest was my mom's 2003 mercedes wagon. the stationary test is HARD, especially for an Rx7.
so basically we have two parts to the test, that are not too bad separately, get kind of tricky when put together. plus we have to do it fairly often.
unless you live in a county where they don't have an emission test, then you get to skip this whole nonsense, which i find remarkably unfair
06-19-16, 06:59 PM
#20
MECP Certified Installer
Dang, you have to get an emissions test every year in Texas, I am surprised California is every 2 years.
My FC passed the dyno smog test so easily. In Texas the HC threshold is very low, but my car always passed it with flying colors. NOx is also very low here but in an FC it is of no concern.
My FC passed the dyno smog test so easily. In Texas the HC threshold is very low, but my car always passed it with flying colors. NOx is also very low here but in an FC it is of no concern.
06-19-16, 09:17 PM
#21
you forgot that if you get flagged as a gross polluter, somewhere in the 2-3 times the limit area you must smog your car EVERY year and it doesn't go away.
nevada required yearly smogs in the incorporated cities(vegas and reno, what else is there in nevada?), but a little more lenient with the numbers, also a stationary sniffer but you were allowed to have anything under the hood you wanted, could be a carbed 351, if you passed the sniffer they didn't care that it wasn't the proper engine. i ran mine with a big single turbo and my microtech with bonez main cat, passed just fine until the compression dropped into the 50's then it didn't want to pass no matter how hard i tried.
between the 2, vegas actually had a better grasp of realistic expectations versus trying to get you to crush your car. a modern fuel injection system? go for it!
nevada required yearly smogs in the incorporated cities(vegas and reno, what else is there in nevada?), but a little more lenient with the numbers, also a stationary sniffer but you were allowed to have anything under the hood you wanted, could be a carbed 351, if you passed the sniffer they didn't care that it wasn't the proper engine. i ran mine with a big single turbo and my microtech with bonez main cat, passed just fine until the compression dropped into the 50's then it didn't want to pass no matter how hard i tried.
between the 2, vegas actually had a better grasp of realistic expectations versus trying to get you to crush your car. a modern fuel injection system? go for it!
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 06-19-16 at 09:27 PM.
06-30-16, 09:25 AM
#23
just to enumerate our procedure in California, just for the people who live in more friendly places it goes like this.
when you buy a new car it doesn't need an emissions test for i think 4 years, but after that every 1975-2012 model year car gets an emissions test every two years. in 2019 this changes to 1981+
if we do not get an emissions test, we do not get registration.
the car also gets an emissions test if it gets sold, unless it had one within 90 days of the sale.
there are two parts to the test, the first and hardest part is the visual.
the tech looks at all of the emissions equipment, to make sure it is present.
he is allowed to check for function, usually they check the EGR to make sure it works. they will verify timing if its easy
this includes the cat(s), which if replaced, need to have the correct CARB number on them.
they have a giant book, which lists all the emissions equipment for just about every car, so they do know what to look for.
if a car is pulled over and found to be recently smogged, and extensively modified, there is a big penalty for the smog test guy, so they do not like to see anything not stock, even vacuum hoses that aren't black make them skittish.
the second part is the actual emissions test.
the 1996+ cars get plugged into the smog computer, and it looks for codes and to see if the monitors are set. the tech has the option of running the car on a dyno test with the sniffer in the tailpipe.
the 1975-1995 cars get a dyno test. also the evaporative system, and gas cap are checked for leaks. it is basically an IM240 style test, although our limits are much lower than most others. Arizona and japan are allowed around 220ppm of HC's, and we're allowed about 90.
the "non enhanced" counties get a stationary emissions test, where they just do idle and 2500rpm.
the dyno test is actually much much easier, basically anything will pass, my personal lowest score was a 1980 MGB, followed by a 200k mile FC. highest was my mom's 2003 mercedes wagon. the stationary test is HARD, especially for an Rx7.
so basically we have two parts to the test, that are not too bad separately, get kind of tricky when put together. plus we have to do it fairly often.
unless you live in a county where they don't have an emission test, then you get to skip this whole nonsense, which i find remarkably unfair
when you buy a new car it doesn't need an emissions test for i think 4 years, but after that every 1975-2012 model year car gets an emissions test every two years. in 2019 this changes to 1981+
if we do not get an emissions test, we do not get registration.
the car also gets an emissions test if it gets sold, unless it had one within 90 days of the sale.
there are two parts to the test, the first and hardest part is the visual.
the tech looks at all of the emissions equipment, to make sure it is present.
he is allowed to check for function, usually they check the EGR to make sure it works. they will verify timing if its easy
this includes the cat(s), which if replaced, need to have the correct CARB number on them.
they have a giant book, which lists all the emissions equipment for just about every car, so they do know what to look for.
if a car is pulled over and found to be recently smogged, and extensively modified, there is a big penalty for the smog test guy, so they do not like to see anything not stock, even vacuum hoses that aren't black make them skittish.
the second part is the actual emissions test.
the 1996+ cars get plugged into the smog computer, and it looks for codes and to see if the monitors are set. the tech has the option of running the car on a dyno test with the sniffer in the tailpipe.
the 1975-1995 cars get a dyno test. also the evaporative system, and gas cap are checked for leaks. it is basically an IM240 style test, although our limits are much lower than most others. Arizona and japan are allowed around 220ppm of HC's, and we're allowed about 90.
the "non enhanced" counties get a stationary emissions test, where they just do idle and 2500rpm.
the dyno test is actually much much easier, basically anything will pass, my personal lowest score was a 1980 MGB, followed by a 200k mile FC. highest was my mom's 2003 mercedes wagon. the stationary test is HARD, especially for an Rx7.
so basically we have two parts to the test, that are not too bad separately, get kind of tricky when put together. plus we have to do it fairly often.
unless you live in a county where they don't have an emission test, then you get to skip this whole nonsense, which i find remarkably unfair
