Are S5 NA and TII trans Tail Housings the same?
01-03-09, 08:42 PM
#1
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Are S5 NA and TII trans Tail Housings the same?
I'm trying to confirm if the trans mount bracket (not the tranny mount itself, I know they're different part numbers) for a S5 TII Tranny and S5 NA tranny are the same.
I searched and searched every which way and word combination, and just couldn't confirm one way or the other.
Thanks
I searched and searched every which way and word combination, and just couldn't confirm one way or the other.
Thanks
01-03-09, 10:20 PM
#3
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I tried that already. Went through 120 pages of Fiche, no help. Only tranny parts listed are internals.
Went through my FSM, and still inconclusive.
Only thing that seems left is someone that has hands on experience with this, or has both a S5 TII and S5 NA tranny and would compare the brackets.
Went through my FSM, and still inconclusive.
Only thing that seems left is someone that has hands on experience with this, or has both a S5 TII and S5 NA tranny and would compare the brackets.
01-04-09, 07:49 AM
#4
Bracket that bolts to the trans are the same, crossmembers are different. The difference in the crossmember is the mounting bolt hole locations. These can be opened up if needed. You can see on the crossmember that one set of holes is oblong and there is another piece of steel that orients the holes to the front or the rear of the crossmember depending on whether it is TII or N/A.
The bracket that you are referring to is different between the S4 and S5. So there are two different trans brackets and four different crossmembers for the manual trans S4 & S5 FC.
So to answer your initial question; No, the tailshafts are not the same, the length is different among many other things.
The bracket that you are referring to is different between the S4 and S5. So there are two different trans brackets and four different crossmembers for the manual trans S4 & S5 FC.
So to answer your initial question; No, the tailshafts are not the same, the length is different among many other things.
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 01-04-09 at 08:07 AM.
01-04-09, 01:12 PM
#5
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Thanks Banzai. The compatibility of the Tranny bracket between NA and TII trannies was specifically what I was trying to determine.
To go on a tangent, sharing an observation given when researching the above question:
Interestingly, it seems the tranny bracket on an GTUs tranny appears S4 in design as to how it mounts to the tranny rather than what you've confirmed for S5 otherwise. At least, when looking at a tranny that reportedly came out of a GTUs and is thought to be stock to it.
Given the confirmation from Banzai as to the bracket, I am a little suspicious that the tranny got swapped out during some prior ownership. If my suspicion is correct, the only performance difference is that the GTUs 5th gear ratio is .756 vs. S4 NA ratio of .697. Also, (unless swapped out) the speedo gear in the tranny isn't proper calibration for a GTUs 3rd member gear ratio.
To go on a tangent, sharing an observation given when researching the above question:
Interestingly, it seems the tranny bracket on an GTUs tranny appears S4 in design as to how it mounts to the tranny rather than what you've confirmed for S5 otherwise. At least, when looking at a tranny that reportedly came out of a GTUs and is thought to be stock to it.
Given the confirmation from Banzai as to the bracket, I am a little suspicious that the tranny got swapped out during some prior ownership. If my suspicion is correct, the only performance difference is that the GTUs 5th gear ratio is .756 vs. S4 NA ratio of .697. Also, (unless swapped out) the speedo gear in the tranny isn't proper calibration for a GTUs 3rd member gear ratio.
01-04-09, 01:47 PM
#6
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One more thing.
The 5th gear ratio for a GTUs tranny and S4 TII tranny are essentially the same.
Also, I seem to recall when doing some research a while back (so take this with a grain of salt) that the speedo gear (ratio) out of an automatic is equivalent to the GTUs speedo gear.
The 5th gear ratio for a GTUs tranny and S4 TII tranny are essentially the same.
Also, I seem to recall when doing some research a while back (so take this with a grain of salt) that the speedo gear (ratio) out of an automatic is equivalent to the GTUs speedo gear.
01-04-09, 03:17 PM
#7
Bracket that bolts to the trans are the same, crossmembers are different. The difference in the crossmember is the mounting bolt hole locations. These can be opened up if needed. You can see on the crossmember that one set of holes is oblong and there is another piece of steel that orients the holes to the front or the rear of the crossmember depending on whether it is TII or N/A.
The bracket that you are referring to is different between the S4 and S5. So there are two different trans brackets and four different crossmembers for the manual trans S4 & S5 FC.
So to answer your initial question; No, the tailshafts are not the same, the length is different among many other things.
The bracket that you are referring to is different between the S4 and S5. So there are two different trans brackets and four different crossmembers for the manual trans S4 & S5 FC.
So to answer your initial question; No, the tailshafts are not the same, the length is different among many other things.
Thanks Robert
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01-04-09, 04:28 PM
#10
LOL, I don't need to. If you are looking at a Mazda FSM picture, there are all kinds of errors in the FSM. The FD FSM shows pictures of FC parts
HOZZMANRX7 - just look at your trans. S4 bolts to the bottom on the trans, S5 bolts to the sides. If the S4 and S5 N/A both bolted to the bottom , there would be no need for a different crossmember.
HOZZMANRX7 - just look at your trans. S4 bolts to the bottom on the trans, S5 bolts to the sides. If the S4 and S5 N/A both bolted to the bottom , there would be no need for a different crossmember.
01-04-09, 04:56 PM
#11
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Thanks Banzai.
I clearly knew the difference between S4 and S5 in this regard. It's compatibility within S5's that seemed vague.
My issue is I need a Tranny mounting bracket for my S5 TII tranny. Mine seems to have grown feet and walked away. I did source one, but I had to also pay relative additional for a Tranny Mounting bracket to get it. I'm not afraid of doing that as doesn't hurt to have one on the shelf for the future. But I wanted to take a run at just a bracket so not buying more than I need unnecessarily before going there.
My purpose is to determine how broad a source there is for the bracket I needed. Far more NA S5's than TII S5's, and I thought that bracket might be interchangable between them. So, my chances were obviously greater if I was right.
Regardless, although your answer is consistent with my expectations, the answer to this debate will be confirmed this evening as I'm to pick up one from an NA tranny to test fit to my TII tranny courtesy of Fc3s91.
I clearly knew the difference between S4 and S5 in this regard. It's compatibility within S5's that seemed vague.
My issue is I need a Tranny mounting bracket for my S5 TII tranny. Mine seems to have grown feet and walked away. I did source one, but I had to also pay relative additional for a Tranny Mounting bracket to get it. I'm not afraid of doing that as doesn't hurt to have one on the shelf for the future. But I wanted to take a run at just a bracket so not buying more than I need unnecessarily before going there.
My purpose is to determine how broad a source there is for the bracket I needed. Far more NA S5's than TII S5's, and I thought that bracket might be interchangable between them. So, my chances were obviously greater if I was right.
Regardless, although your answer is consistent with my expectations, the answer to this debate will be confirmed this evening as I'm to pick up one from an NA tranny to test fit to my TII tranny courtesy of Fc3s91.
01-04-09, 05:02 PM
#12
Yup, sorry fc3s91, referring to the FSM for pictures is a definite crap shoot. The S5 manual has lots of S4 pics, making it damn confusing. :headscratch:
One comment about looking at your tranny as a solution is that you have to know the history of your vehicle to know for sure that the correct/original tranny is in it. Nice urethane bushings Banzai.
One comment about looking at your tranny as a solution is that you have to know the history of your vehicle to know for sure that the correct/original tranny is in it. Nice urethane bushings Banzai.
01-04-09, 10:25 PM
#13
Banzai has it right. S4s have 2 bolts on the bottom of the tail housing, while all S5s have 4 bolts on the sides.
Here are a couple pics of my TII transmissions, which have the same mounting layout as NAs of the series.
First pic has the S4 trans on the left & the S5 trans on the right.
Second pic is a closeup of the S4 trans bracket.
FC3S91, it looks like at some point your original transmission was replaced with an S4. It's basically the same, except for 5th gear ratio and possibly the speedo gear.
Here are a couple pics of my TII transmissions, which have the same mounting layout as NAs of the series.
First pic has the S4 trans on the left & the S5 trans on the right.
Second pic is a closeup of the S4 trans bracket.
FC3S91, it looks like at some point your original transmission was replaced with an S4. It's basically the same, except for 5th gear ratio and possibly the speedo gear.
01-04-09, 10:37 PM
#14
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Drama deepens. The NA tranny I looked at this evening that reportedly came out of a low mileage '91 has the 2-bolts-at-the-bottom bracket mounting
01-05-09, 06:58 AM
#16
Only if you enlarge the mounting holes as I described above. Otherwise they will not line up to the chassis.
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 01-05-09 at 07:00 AM.
01-05-09, 08:55 AM
#17
I would not call it "drama", he posted pictures of an S4 bracket , what did you expect? Of course it was going to be the wrong one. Just because the trans was pulled from an S5 does not mean it came from the factory with it installed. I personally have a low mileage 91 and I installed an S4 trans & Diff in it.
Only if you enlarge the mounting holes as I described above. Otherwise they will not line up to the chassis.
Only if you enlarge the mounting holes as I described above. Otherwise they will not line up to the chassis.
Thanks
Robert
01-05-09, 08:57 AM
#18
Banzai has it right. S4s have 2 bolts on the bottom of the tail housing, while all S5s have 4 bolts on the sides.
Here are a couple pics of my TII transmissions, which have the same mounting layout as NAs of the series.
First pic has the S4 trans on the left & the S5 trans on the right.
Second pic is a closeup of the S4 trans bracket.
FC3S91, it looks like at some point your original transmission was replaced with an S4. It's basically the same, except for 5th gear ratio and possibly the speedo gear.
Here are a couple pics of my TII transmissions, which have the same mounting layout as NAs of the series.
First pic has the S4 trans on the left & the S5 trans on the right.
Second pic is a closeup of the S4 trans bracket.
FC3S91, it looks like at some point your original transmission was replaced with an S4. It's basically the same, except for 5th gear ratio and possibly the speedo gear.
Thanks Robert
01-05-09, 09:57 AM
#19
S5 N/A manual trans used in auto to manual swap, pic courtesy of this thread: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ual+conversion
You can see that the bracket does not mount to the bottom, but to the sides. You can see by the lack of ribs on the casing that it is not a turbo trans
You can see that the bracket does not mount to the bottom, but to the sides. You can see by the lack of ribs on the casing that it is not a turbo trans
01-05-09, 10:39 AM
#21
Give me a break. Go to the link.
Pictures don't get any clearer than that. It is obvious in the pic, since you can see the bottom of the trans above the bracket that it is not bolted to the bottom of the trans. You can see the casting protrude out to the sides and the bolts above the isolators.
Pictures don't get any clearer than that. It is obvious in the pic, since you can see the bottom of the trans above the bracket that it is not bolted to the bottom of the trans. You can see the casting protrude out to the sides and the bolts above the isolators.
