eyeoutthere

I did a search but could not find much on it (the fact that the search function doesn’t let you search for two letter words like “s5” and “s4” didn’t help ).

I assume it is pretty strait forward.

So far I have changed the injector clips because they were different.
Do injectors have polarity?

Is there anything else I should look for?

BTW: the S5 engine is come from an automatic car and I am putting it in a 5-speed S4 car. So I will be mounting an S4 5-speed, clutch, and flywheel to an s5 engine.

Will I have any problems there?

Thanks
-Jason

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

You shouldn't encounter ANY problems... The only difference between a S4 and a S5 short block is the front cover and Oil Metering Pump / OMP. If you put the S4 front cover and OMP on the S5 block, EVERYTHING else is a direct bolt on.... intake, exhaust, mounts, etc... including the 5speed swap. I did what you're doing backwards... I put a S4 motor into my S5.

Ohhhh...!!! You're going to need to get the S5 5speed flywheel and counterweight, you can't use the S4 5speed flywheel and counterweight on a S5 motor. I have both the flywheel and the counterweight off a 90GTU if you need them since I used the S4. E-mail me at: RSDEVIL007@AOL.com

ERAUMAZDA

uhhhhhhh

what about the wiring harness

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

What about the wiring harness...? He's going to use EVERYTHING on the S4 including the harness, except he's going to put it all on a S5 block in a S4 car.

eyeoutthere

So if I leave everything on the S5 block but swap the Metering pump and front cover, I should be good?

What is different about the OMP in the s4 that makes it necessary to put it on an s5 block when put in an s4 car?
Is it computer controlled in the s5's or something?

Also, are there any disadvantages to discarding the OMP and running a premix?

I'll e-mail you about the flywheel. I have a roommate with an s5, and he has a lightweight flywheel waiting to go in it. He needs the counter weight from my automatic s5 and I need his flywheel, so this could work out for both of us.

Thanks,
Jason

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

No... EVERYTHING comes off the S5 motor... everything.

You take JUST THE BARE S5 BLOCK and put on the S4 front cover then put the motor into your S4 car.

You have to change the front cover on the motor because a S5 uses an electronic metering device built into it's OMP which has a different bolting pattern to attach the omp to the front cover then a S4 does.

You have to use EVERYTHING from the S4.

The front cover, the OMP, the engine harness, the injectors, the ECU, the fuel rails, the coils, the CAS, intakes, upper and lower, exhaust manifold, sensors, water pump, alternator, belts... EVERYTHING... except the block.

The short block is the ONLY thing that is going to be used from a S5.

So basicly, if you pop your hood it will still look EXACTLY like a S4. No one will be able to tell you have a S5 motor unless you tell them because the ONLY thing you are going to be using from a S5 is the block and externally it LOOKS identical to a S4. (The rotors internally, have a higer compression and are lighter along with the lighter flywheel, but no one will be able to notice physically.)

Quote:

Originally posted by 85TIIDEVIL

Just like if I pop my hood it still looks EXACTLY like a S5, because the only thing I changed from a S4, was the block. And again it looks identical to a S5 motor but internally it's different.

eyeoutthere

Is there any reason I can't use the s5 injectors?

I already changed the connectors to the s5 type and the s4 ones where all busted up.

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

I have no idea if the injectors are compatiable between the two. Hopefully someone else will know the answer to that one.

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

The wiring to the FI's don't matter as to which one goes where. Meaning, as long as both of them are connected, you'll be fine.

13bpower

If your car is 87.5 or before the injectors are not compatable. If the car is a 87.5-88 the injectors will work with the exception that the s4 wire harness clip is slightly different than the s5 clip. It will work with alittle modification.

13bpower

Everything that 85TIIDEVIL said is correct. The only thing I might add is that make sure you know what your getting into. I've been there and at points wished I wasent.

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

Yes, I forgot about that... 13BPOWER is exactly right about the injectors... If your S4 is pre 87.5 (which u can tell by a resistor pack, aprox 4" in length, w/a ceramic inside, located on the pass side engine compartment / strut area) then you have low impedence injectors in your S4 and any S5 injectors are high impedence.

You have to do a search how to wire in a resistor (i think) to make the two compatiable if this is your case. I can only tell you how to recognize if you have the pre-87.5 / low impedence in your S4.

I'm also not familar with if it's a good idea or not to even use the particular set of S5 injectors u have into your S4 setup....?

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Why wouldn't they? The only difference is the clip. I'd keep the s5 intakes, they're better.

eyeoutthere

I still don’t understand why I have to swap “everything” off of the s4 motor.

I have the two motors sitting side by side and everything looks the same except:
Routing of vacuum lines – No big deal
O2 sensor plug is different – Is there a difference between the O2 sensors, or can I just swap the plugs?
S5 WP has an extra sensor on it – I don’t know what it’s for, but it isn’t on the s4 so I assume it is one of many redundancies and I can just leave it unplugged.
OMP has electrical connections on it as apposed to the mechanically driven s4 unit – I’ll either swap OMP’s and rig up something to control the OMP mechanically or get rid of it altogether and run a premix.
The s5 has two TPS’s and uses one plug for both (as apposed to the single s4 TPS) - I’ll just swap the plug from my S4 TPS onto the wires of one of the S5’s. The TPS on the s4 is busted so I couldn’t use it anyway.
Injectors have different plugs and are different impedance – according to Rotary Resurrection; all I have to do is swap the connectors (already done) and bypass the resistor pack.

What else is there?

Thanks,
Jason

eyeoutthere

*edit*
The S5 has a full range TPS and a narrow range TPS. The S4 only has a narrow range TPS. A little change in the wiring and I am all set there.

The second connector in the Water Pump has something to do with the auto tranny. So I don't have to worry about that.

Also, there is a part (a valve of some sort with an electrical connector on it) that connects to a coolant line, the Thermovalve, and the intake elbow. On the S5 it is on the left side of the Intake and on the S4 it is on the right. A little wiring and I can fix that, or I could swap that part off the S4.

Am I missing anything?

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

???... I don't know whats compatiable between the two...???

But I do know you can physically put a S5 BLOCK into a S4 and vice versa with NO PROBLEMS.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Any of you brain surgeons want to hear the facts from somebody that has ACTUALLY DONE IT?

1. The S4 and S5 blocks are DIFFERENT.
2. The S4 motor is an EGR motor, the S5 isnt. If you use the S5 block and the S4 upper and lower intakes, the lower intake WONT MATCH UP TO THE S5 Block. You will have a hole that needs to be patched (I used JB weld)
3. You will need an S5 Flywheel
4. You will need either an S4 front cover, or you can PREMIX.
5. You will need to swap the oil fill tubes.

This is for an S5 motor with S4 upper half. And you can pretty much FORGET passing emissions. If you are in a NON EMISSIONS state, use the S5 upper half and get rid of your stupid vac spider...


Much more had to be done. This is NOT a straight swap! Dont let anyone tell you it is.

Jarrett

85TIIDEVIL

iTrader: (2)

It's no longer going to be a straight foward swap because he wants to mix and match parts between the series.

OMG...a EGR valve.... oohhhhh no.... What willl he ever do now with out one.... Saved him the $6.00 from Racing Beat for a block off plate.

You my friend, ARE the brain Suregon... Read the posts from the begining....

NOTHING MORE HAS TO BE DONE IF HE UTILIZES EVERYTHING OFF THE S4 SETUP ON THE S5 BLOCK. INCLUDING THE S4 FRONT COVER AND OMP.

THE LOWER INTAKE GASKET IS IDENTICAL FOR BOTH SERIES.... THE S4 LOWER BOLTS ON PERFECTLY. CLARIFY WHAT HOLE HAS TO BE PATCHED...?????????

AGAIN... I'M TELLING YOU, IT'S A STRIAGHT FOWARD SWAP IF YOU USE EVERYTHING OFF THE S4 SETUP ON THE S5 BLOCK.....

You want to start mixing and matching injectors and intakes removing this & that, splicing engine harness with one another... THEN OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT GOING TO BE STRAIGHT FOWARD...!!!!!!!!

I don't come here to argue either.... lol. To tell you the truth, I don't know WHAT my reasons for coming here are. Everyone ALWAYS has something SMART to say about the next guy.....

MY motor swap was done in 1 day. Out with one, in with the next. I even used the SAME metal lower intake gasket and didn't have to take time to go buy a new one. I don't remember having problems with a EGR or having to swap a oil fill tube...LOL. But I'm in a catagory as a brian surgeon.... My dailydriver is and has been RUNNING FINE for the last 1 year plus.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Only if he doesnt want to pass emissions...

Your ABSOLUTELY right, the gaskets are the same. HOWEVER, the intermediate housing on an S5 block and the intermediate housing on the S4 block are DIFFERENT! The gaset is a UNIVERSAL gasket. If you mount an S4 LIM to an S5 block you will have a 1/8 inch GAP left under the center of the LIM. This will allow exhaust to excape. If you wont take my word for it, then ask HYPNYTZ7, he had the same experience.

If you dont want to believe me, fine. But since I have done it, and so have others, I would recommend heeding my advice.

Jarrett

eyeoutthere

I realize that using just the S5 block and swapping everything over would be the sure fire way of doing it. But I don’t see that as being strait forward. Especially since this is my first time working on a rotary and I wouldn’t know how everything went back together.

I want to use the entire s5 engine. I don’t think it would be very hard.

Here is the list of things I would have to do (I’m not sure how accurate it is; that is why I’m here! )
- Swap or change connectors on the O2 sensor
- Swap or change connectors on the BAC
- Change connectors on the Injectors
- Bypass injector resistor pack
- Remove OMP and run Premix
- Swap TPS

That’s it!
Am I missing anything?

rx7rotary89

i hope you know what your doing, i tried to do the same thing only vice versa, i tried putting an s4 motor in my s5 and believe me, its a lot of time and money and my idea went off as a failure

rx7rotary89

but on another note, good luck and hope it works out for you

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

You are going to have to devise a way to run the aux port actuators, and the VDI actuator. Also keep in mind that the exhaust portion of the S5 motor is slightly different also.

Most of the changes are for emissions. If this isnt a problem for you, then by all means, press on. Just keep in mind that the S4 ECU and the S5 vac rac are not directly compatible. Some wiring will be necessary.

Jarrett

eyeoutthere

I don’t

That would be a harder swap because the OMP is electronically controlled on the S5 but mechanical on the S4. It would be a pain in the *** for that reason alone (from what I have heard). In my case S4 ECU will not even know the OMP has been removed. What other problems did you run into?

Aren’t the aux ports and VDI actuators controlled by vacuum..? Looking at the s5 motor, I don’t see any connection to these systems from outside the engine. What feedback do these systems need from the ECU?

Worst case scenario: I get a window switch. I am going to need one for my nitrous system anyway.

I’m using the S5 exhaust manifold, so does that make a difference?

I don’t need to pass emissions. It just need it to run correctly.

The var rac…is that the set or actuators on the right side of the intake? What do they do and how are they not compatible?


I appreciate that time you guys are taking to help me out.
Thanks,
-Jason