coldfire

iTrader: (1)

alright, i am sure we have all discussed the S5 intake manifold swap onto an S4 engine. now i am planning on doing this shortly, and i have read the various threads on this here, and also Carl Davis' write-up.
HOWEVER, my situation is a little different. you see, i may have an S4 engine, but my car is an S5 (for the most part...see sig). that means i have the S5 ECU. so i am thinking i can go about this swap a little differently then.

i already have the S5 dual TPS. but there are a few things that i am wondering about:

1) injectors: i am guessing the S5 high impedence injectors are in there now, unless the S4s are rigged up somehow to work with the S5 ECU. anyway to tell? i guess testing the resistance should tell me, right?

2) bypass air control valve: right now this isn't even connected. doesn't seem to affect anything though, my idle is rock solid at ~750 and my A/C isn't currently working anyways. probably just rip it out...or maybe not, cause then i have **** to block off.

3) metering oil pump: this is the big one. i want to get the S5 electric MOP, otherwise i will just rip out the S4 one and run straight pre-mix. i just think it's too much of hassel to bend that rod and everything. but i should be able to do this, right? shouldn't it just be a matter of hooking up the connector?

4) auxilary port actuators and VDI: whenever someone does this swap, there is all this talk about RPM switches and getting the 5/6 ports working right. seeing how i have all the connections with the S5 ECU, can't i just use the stock S5 solenoid system? if so, would this require getting anything extra other than the mentioned S5 manifold, fuel rail, etc. for this swap? i'm guessing the solenoid valves, but i'm not entirely sure how it will all hook up.


anyways, some input would be great.
thanks.

Mobius

I have done this swap actually. So I'll give as much of my experience of it as I can.

you sound enthusiastic and I like that. That's what a rotary needs.

S5 will be in there for that series. And you should be able to hook up a multimeter and read the specified resistence for each series thus giving you the impedence rating for that injector.

Wow. Now that's interesting. Something about this car we should know about? Are you absultely sure you are in fact talking about the BAC or are you assuming such???

Disconnecting the air conditioning means zero block off. In fact, just cut the belt to that ****** and consider it blocked. Disconnecting the BAC is a whole different can of worms.

You sure?

If you have an s4 block with an s5 throttle body I suppose its possible the BAC has been nixed. But then again why would you be talking about putting a VDI s5 manifold on an s4 block???

Anyway...

There are several ways to find out if you have an s4 block.

This is where it gets weird. You're saying you have an s4 engine but you want to put and s5 throttle body and related components on an s4 engine?

Are you sure you have your series correct? Lets make sure you know what you do have and what you do not have under your hood.

That's the first place to start.


BTW the 5&6 ports are much different between each series.

mazdized

S4 manifold flows better at top....

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

Mobius:

lol
yeah, my car seems to generate LOTS of confusion. like i said, check out the thread about my car in my sig.
but let me see if i can answer some of what you are wondering about:

i just want you to understand clearly, first of all, that i am swapping a S5 intake manifold onto an S4 engine, but the car itself is an S5, which means that the ECU and harness is S5....confused yet?

i am definetly talking about the BACV, i am not THAT stupid
in fact i think Aaron Cake was looking at my car at a meet, and he was like WTF about this and a few other things.
the BACV can not be connected because the S5 plug is not compatible. when i tested the signal at the plug for a pulsating ground, there was none, which i find strange (must be disconnected somewhere in the harness, or the ECU giving me a closed loop mode or something).
and i don't have an S5 throttle body, like i said everything is S4 on the block.
don't ask how the dual S5 TPS works on the S4 throttle body though...

so are you implying that i need to swap the S5 throttle body also? does this have something to do with me wanting to get the solenoids for the VDI and actuators, or are we on the wrong page here...
oh, and as for the actuators, i think it was implied that is part of the swap...

believe me, i know what i have under my hood and what i don't. you seem to be confused about my explanation of what series of stuff i have.
anyways if you can help me out with the extra info i have given that would be good, although i don't think when you said you had done the swap, you had actually meant with an S5 ECU...

drago86

no,...s5 manifold is tuned for a higher rpm when the vdi is open. The s4 manifold starts to fall off at 6k, whereass the s5 doesnt start to fall untill 7k. It is true that the s4 has larger runners, but the s5 still flows more at high rpm due to its tunned lengths. If you were to port the motor you may run ito a situation where the s4 is better suited, but the port timming would have to be increased significantly.

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

I have no IAC or BAC and my car idles fine. you only need them if you have AC or power steering

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

yes, my power steering is still on there and working^

this info on which manifold flows better is all well and good, but it doesn't really help me out

so...anybody want to give a go and answer my 4 'questions'?

Mobius

Sorry not trying to come accross as a know it all.

I did a similiar swap. I put an s4 block into an s5 set up. It was semi successful but I couldn't get it to idle just right...and before I could, I rebuilt the original s5 block and slapped it back in.

Well then that's awesome..... Here's the info the only info I have that I think will help you along, though is by no means complete.

the 5th and 6 ports are opened by the ACV and airpump on the series 5.....So you need to make sure that you're operating this part completely otherwise the VDI won't function correctly. This is kinda cool because you have the s5 harness etc and so it'll should be pretty easy to put the VDI back in provided you're also using the lower intake s5 manifold.

In the s4's you can nix the ACV and airpump and block it off. But not the s5's.

I know this for a fact.

inflatablepets

I did the same swap, S4 block in S5 car. Did your idle have a very slight surge and occasional miss to it? Can you tell me moreabout the idle problems that you had?

Mobius

yes it would surge. And it was weird too. I set the tps correctly and played around with the BAC. I did not however completely rebuild the BAC as I was told that sometimes cleaning it thoroughly can fix surging. There's also away to eliminate the BAC as the cause of your problem without taking it out and cleaning it. Turbonut had the suggestion, so search under his name. Sorry, I never got that far into it.

The other thing it would do is that I played around with the idle. It loved to idle at around 1200 and it would do okay...But then ocassionally when you came to a stop it would race to 4000 sometimes 5000 before I would have to tap the gas pedal and make it drop.


So then on my other adjustments I would bring the the idle down to 9, but then it would bounce and hesitate alot like it wanted to die.

Basically I could just never hit that sweet spot. Either I brought the idle down to 750 and it would shake like crazy, sputter and die. So then I upped it and it would Shake and want to die but not all the way at 900....let it idle higher at 1200 and then it raced. Another weird thing it did was when it was set high it raced but it also opened up the VDI at 5000 or so and you could definately feel this punch. More so than usual. That was cool, it was almost like a ghetto turbo, but coming to a stop and idling, well that just sucked.

It could have been a VAC leak, but I checked for that like 9 billion times.

That's pretty much when I said **** it. And threw the correct block in there.

Mobius

Oh and sorry forgot to mention one last thing.

Yes you'll need the entire upper throttle body. the s4 chamber (where it says MAzda 13b) as it will not fit on s5 VDI mid section. If you thought you could just buy the mid section where the BAC sits, and use everything else s4, lower intake and throttle plate chamber, that won't work. I know because I was gonna try that once upon a time too. s5 has different VAC lines and more soleniods too. don't ask me how to nix those...I know someone here knows how, but not me.

inflatablepets

Thanks Mobius. I'll play with the BAC Yesterday I re adjusted the TPS and pulled the codes, which were TPS related . 12 and 28 or somthing like that. Mine usually idles pretty good though, but it's not quite there. My idle is at 900 or so and it purrs for the most part. About the VDI I like it, it's too bad it kicks in @ 5500 on mine. It hits the "Digital duck" at 8000 I want to put a RPM switch on the system and lower that point to 4000. It seems that it would be more usable for me. The saet of pants says the car feels pretty good, but it's no match for my buddys modded MK3 Supra. I couldn't quite pass up an Eclipse GT the other day. I was in a real hurry to get to work a couple days ago, and I came up on a person in a GS-T that thought I wanted to race. I couldn't pull away though. These N/a's are too slow I guess. But then again those GS-t's are kinda fast.

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

errr...stop thread jacking!


again Mobius, i want to use S5 lower and upper intake manifold, S5 dynamic chamber, S5 electric metering oil pump, and S5 auxilary port and VDI solenoids.
i will KEEP the S4 throttle body.

inflatablepets

Sorry about that Coldfire. This made more sense than starting another thread like this. Why are you going to use S4 throttle body?

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

isn't using the S4 throttle body easier than using the S5? or am i missing something here?

neptuneRX

holy crap, I'm doing a S5 intake manifold swap in like... 2weeks when Agent D sends me out the stuff, I'm gonna be so frick'n confused if its anything like what you have rigged up. I was just gonna wire up the VDI so it got signal at X RPM to open up (I'm getting the motor street ported) so I wanted to tune that X#, also I'm porting the S5 runners. I'm going to still use the S4 throttle body, but that's also getting some porting work, and dunno what I'm doing about actuators, I'm defently getting some pineapple inserts though. I should probably order those soon. And what is this about the TPS?! Dual TPS... ugh my brain just crashed.... anyone have a write-up for the swap?!

Mobius

Alright....Maybe you guys know something I don't.

Maybe I'm totally confused and have no idea what it is that you're really trying to do???

inflatablepets

I used S5 throttle body. Don't really have any problems.