s4 13Bt block with n/a ecu
10-30-05, 11:58 PM
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s4 13Bt block with n/a ecu
Anyone ever done this type of conversion? I've talked to a few guys who've just slapped a turbo on the n/a block and said it ran rich before and stoic after the bolt on.
What I wanna know is, has anyone dropped in a 13bt long block and hooked it up to the n/a harness and ecu? If so, how did it work out?
I'm thinking about doing this. Cleaning the T2 injectors and maybe switching to a T2 AFM. Maybe use a SAFC or Emanage to control it.
I was also told a vert ecu doubles at a T2 ecu, is that true?
What I wanna know is, has anyone dropped in a 13bt long block and hooked it up to the n/a harness and ecu? If so, how did it work out?
I'm thinking about doing this. Cleaning the T2 injectors and maybe switching to a T2 AFM. Maybe use a SAFC or Emanage to control it.
I was also told a vert ecu doubles at a T2 ecu, is that true?
10-31-05, 01:56 AM
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The NA ecu doesnt lower timming or split at boost.
Thats why you would want a T2 ecu. They can be had for cheap. Plus its worth not going through motors . And if your saying a turbo motor in boost is hitting stoich . Thats not good at all. ( usually boost should be much richer ( 11-12 afrs )
If your interested you can get the full ECU, harness etc of ebay for cheap.
Or you can buy it from me
.
$ 175 for: S4 T2 ecu, Jspec T2 harness, T2 MAF, T2 pressure sensor, T2 fuel relay .
Thats why you would want a T2 ecu. They can be had for cheap. Plus its worth not going through motors . And if your saying a turbo motor in boost is hitting stoich . Thats not good at all. ( usually boost should be much richer ( 11-12 afrs )
If your interested you can get the full ECU, harness etc of ebay for cheap.
Or you can buy it from me
.$ 175 for: S4 T2 ecu, Jspec T2 harness, T2 MAF, T2 pressure sensor, T2 fuel relay .
10-31-05, 11:40 AM
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IMO the j-spec harness is worthless unless the turbo swap car was turbo to begin with. There were like 8 dudes around here that tried that route and then scrambled to find the driverside harness.
I was going this swap as a temporary bandaide until I got around to getting a stand alone. That still wouldn't help the fact that I'm stuck with an n/a driveline. So I decided I will just buy a blown shell and start from there.
I was going this swap as a temporary bandaide until I got around to getting a stand alone. That still wouldn't help the fact that I'm stuck with an n/a driveline. So I decided I will just buy a blown shell and start from there.
10-31-05, 01:52 PM
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8888888888What I wanna know is, has anyone dropped in a 13bt long block and hooked it up to the n/a harness and ecu? If so, how did it work out?88888888888888888888888888
If you mean a compete turboii engine with turbo in a n/a car? Yes. But use a n/a harness and a turboii ECU AND boost/pressure sensor. It's backwards/uninformed/dumb/wrong, to use a n/a ECU and pressure sensor with a turbo engine.
Putting a turboii engine in a non turbo car and just swapping in a turboii EMISSIONS HARNESS (the one that has the fuel injectors on it) is not a solution.
The turboii EMISSIONS harness STILL needs to have pins changed/swapped/cut in the turbo harness for it to interface with the non turbo FRONT harness. See the FSM wiring diagrams and the connector FEM-02 for conformation (FEM stands for Front to Emissions harness. FEM-02 is a particular connector b/t the two harness).
Putting a turboii Front harness and Emissions harness in a non turbo car is..........plain retarded in my opinion. It's not worth the work involved when all you had to do is make small adjustments to the non turbo harness.
The small changes that have to be made in the harness can be figured out in a couple of hours by comparing the turboii CONTROL UNIT pages with the non turbo CONTROL UNIT pages in the applicable FSM (I'm talking series four only).
N332 and N333 are both about fifty bucks max in my opinion. Those are series four turboii ECU's.
Nothing I said above applies to series five. I've no interest in series five plastic cars. humor
Go here for a download of the FUEL section of the series four car and wiring schematics. You do not have to download anything else. http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2nd_gen_manuals.htm
If you mean a compete turboii engine with turbo in a n/a car? Yes. But use a n/a harness and a turboii ECU AND boost/pressure sensor. It's backwards/uninformed/dumb/wrong, to use a n/a ECU and pressure sensor with a turbo engine.
Putting a turboii engine in a non turbo car and just swapping in a turboii EMISSIONS HARNESS (the one that has the fuel injectors on it) is not a solution.
The turboii EMISSIONS harness STILL needs to have pins changed/swapped/cut in the turbo harness for it to interface with the non turbo FRONT harness. See the FSM wiring diagrams and the connector FEM-02 for conformation (FEM stands for Front to Emissions harness. FEM-02 is a particular connector b/t the two harness).
Putting a turboii Front harness and Emissions harness in a non turbo car is..........plain retarded in my opinion. It's not worth the work involved when all you had to do is make small adjustments to the non turbo harness.
The small changes that have to be made in the harness can be figured out in a couple of hours by comparing the turboii CONTROL UNIT pages with the non turbo CONTROL UNIT pages in the applicable FSM (I'm talking series four only).
N332 and N333 are both about fifty bucks max in my opinion. Those are series four turboii ECU's.
Nothing I said above applies to series five. I've no interest in series five plastic cars. humor
Go here for a download of the FUEL section of the series four car and wiring schematics. You do not have to download anything else. http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/2nd_gen_manuals.htm
Last edited by HAILERS; 10-31-05 at 01:55 PM.
10-31-05, 01:57 PM
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Well , I know of a NA GXL that got a Jspec harness installed no problems and ran no problems. ( it did not have emissions ).
If your going to ghetto the car, why not stay NA and enjoy the car. Those put together setups dont last too long. ( i bet theres a few outthere that have had a running setup for long , but less than more )
If your going to ghetto the car, why not stay NA and enjoy the car. Those put together setups dont last too long. ( i bet theres a few outthere that have had a running setup for long , but less than more )
10-31-05, 02:19 PM
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JSPEC harness I know zip about. But a USA TurboII Emissions harness when interfacing with a non turbo FRONT harness, results in the signal from the BOOST SENSOR going to the METER fuse.
The METER fuse has 12vdc on it.
The 12vdc will then go from the METER fuse to the splice in the Brown/Red wire output wire from the Boost Sensor and on to the ECU pin 2B.
Now you have 12vdc going to an OUTPUT pin on the boost sensor AND to an INPUT pin 2B of the ECU.
Pin 2B normally sees much less than 4vdc. NOT good.
See the pinouts for the connector called X-15 on 87 cars and FEM-02 for 88 cars. There are other differences but the Brown/Red wire is the most significant.
In other words, theres people out there that are clueless.
From what I gather about JSPEC left hand drive emission harness, they don't have the wiper circuit in them and other items. There's a Czech fella who has tried on this forum to write/describe the connections that have to be altered. Forgot his moniker.
The METER fuse has 12vdc on it.
The 12vdc will then go from the METER fuse to the splice in the Brown/Red wire output wire from the Boost Sensor and on to the ECU pin 2B.
Now you have 12vdc going to an OUTPUT pin on the boost sensor AND to an INPUT pin 2B of the ECU.
Pin 2B normally sees much less than 4vdc. NOT good.
See the pinouts for the connector called X-15 on 87 cars and FEM-02 for 88 cars. There are other differences but the Brown/Red wire is the most significant.
In other words, theres people out there that are clueless.
From what I gather about JSPEC left hand drive emission harness, they don't have the wiper circuit in them and other items. There's a Czech fella who has tried on this forum to write/describe the connections that have to be altered. Forgot his moniker.
Last edited by HAILERS; 10-31-05 at 02:22 PM.
10-31-05, 02:52 PM
#7
What do you mean Front harness? I'm just trying to think of the harness your speaking of.
I dropped in my 13bt and used S4 TII EFI Passenger side harness/ECU. I kept the main/Drivers side NA harness and interior harness as is.
I had to rewire about 3-4 wires to get my guages and stuff to work normally.
Then run 2 wires for the alternator since TII's have that plug on the drivers harness while NA's are on the EFI/Pass harness.
Yes the Jspec harness does not have the US interior plug on it. So the wipers don't work and something else(can't remember/like the heater or something).
Also.
Throwing in a 13BT and letting a NA ECU and fuel map take care of it is a VERY stupid idea in the first place. Also NA Fuel pump,460cc injectors,NA vac boost sensor,etc...... That's asking to destroy a motor. Sure it may be possible but it is very far from good.
Some one saying a NA ecu running rich being stoich after turbo is stupid.
You never want to hit stoich while boosting and the stock Turbo uses 4 550cc injectors whiel the NA's use 460cc injectors. I would assume after all other things aside you'd be running dangerously lean on low boost.
I dropped in my 13bt and used S4 TII EFI Passenger side harness/ECU. I kept the main/Drivers side NA harness and interior harness as is.
I had to rewire about 3-4 wires to get my guages and stuff to work normally.
Then run 2 wires for the alternator since TII's have that plug on the drivers harness while NA's are on the EFI/Pass harness.
Yes the Jspec harness does not have the US interior plug on it. So the wipers don't work and something else(can't remember/like the heater or something).
Also.
Throwing in a 13BT and letting a NA ECU and fuel map take care of it is a VERY stupid idea in the first place. Also NA Fuel pump,460cc injectors,NA vac boost sensor,etc...... That's asking to destroy a motor. Sure it may be possible but it is very far from good.
Some one saying a NA ecu running rich being stoich after turbo is stupid.
You never want to hit stoich while boosting and the stock Turbo uses 4 550cc injectors whiel the NA's use 460cc injectors. I would assume after all other things aside you'd be running dangerously lean on low boost.
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10-31-05, 04:09 PM
#8
the 13bt running a na ecu is a very bad idea. when you hit boost the ecu wont compensate for it correctly, it wont add extra fuel or retard timing.... that can be a bad thing...
actually thinking about it the t2 motor ,running 550 injectors when the na ecu thinks they are 460's it might run rich when your out of boost....
but going into boost, the turbo ecu adds quite alot of fuel and changes timing ... and the na ecu wouldnt be compinsating for boost at all . so you would go lean the more boost that is added.
then with out timing retard and being lean BOOM! there goes yer motor.
actually thinking about it the t2 motor ,running 550 injectors when the na ecu thinks they are 460's it might run rich when your out of boost....
but going into boost, the turbo ecu adds quite alot of fuel and changes timing ... and the na ecu wouldnt be compinsating for boost at all . so you would go lean the more boost that is added.
then with out timing retard and being lean BOOM! there goes yer motor.
11-01-05, 08:24 PM
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the main reason I thought about it is; when I go out cruising I see all sorts of boosted n/a cars with some HKS, GReddy, and/or junk yard turbo kit. All running stock n/a ECU with either a piggy back or a chip. I know these are all piston engines, but even old school carbed cars were boosted with out all the electronic protections.
thanks for the replys. Yeah, I just figured if I stuck with 5lbs and turbo injectors with a walbro then used a piggy back to raise the fuel input on rpm rise that I might be OK. Also if I went with that setup I would retard the timing by hand and get rid of the trailing spark.
Instead of butchering the car, I am in the process of trading my 88 GXL for an 89 T2 with a low compression bridge port.
thanks for the replys. Yeah, I just figured if I stuck with 5lbs and turbo injectors with a walbro then used a piggy back to raise the fuel input on rpm rise that I might be OK. Also if I went with that setup I would retard the timing by hand and get rid of the trailing spark.
Instead of butchering the car, I am in the process of trading my 88 GXL for an 89 T2 with a low compression bridge port.
Last edited by walken; 11-01-05 at 08:27 PM.
11-01-05, 08:39 PM
#10
well see one of hte things is on piston engines, why its easyer to turbo charge them. piston engines are more forgiving to knock.....
you can have detonation in a piston engine every once in a while and it probably wont blow up.( note severe enuf detonation wll kill any engine)
so in a piston motor you could strap on any turbo add a lil fuel and see what happens... and ... ohh crap its detonating, lets add more fuel....im sure theres plenty of people who just tune by trial and error(note: not the right way!!!) and still there motors hold... i have seen plenty of blown piston motors with "custom" turbo setups done incorectly as well tho.
now with a "custom" or "backyard" turboed rotary engine one decent knock and the motor will blow!!! so thats why turboing a NA rotary requires careful tuning and some extent of knowledge
you can have detonation in a piston engine every once in a while and it probably wont blow up.( note severe enuf detonation wll kill any engine)
so in a piston motor you could strap on any turbo add a lil fuel and see what happens... and ... ohh crap its detonating, lets add more fuel....im sure theres plenty of people who just tune by trial and error(note: not the right way!!!) and still there motors hold... i have seen plenty of blown piston motors with "custom" turbo setups done incorectly as well tho.
now with a "custom" or "backyard" turboed rotary engine one decent knock and the motor will blow!!! so thats why turboing a NA rotary requires careful tuning and some extent of knowledge
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