MarketGarden

Hey guys, my friend and I are having a little debate over witch car is better and im also trying to deside between the 3. I wanted to get the RX7 board thoughts.........

What car would you think is the best all-around performer?
i.e. Acceleration, Braking distance, lateral G's (skidpad), and Style?

The contenders:
-Series 5 1991 USDM RX-7 Turbo2
-Last year model 1995 USDM Toyota MR-2 Turbo
-1994 USDM 240SX SE Hatchback (180 style) w/ a JDM S13 redtop SR20DET)

All contenders are stock minus the 240 (just the engine swap only)

minclo

acceleration i think goes to the mr2 because of the MR setup..braking is prolly pretty much the same cuz they're all about the same size, lateral g's would go to the Seven (thank god for 50/50 weight distribution) and of course the most important (style) goes to the Seven. I hate the looks of the MR2 and i think the seven looks better than the 240 (i had both a s13 and a s14, no sr20 though ) But of course you're gonna get the biased opinion...GET THE RX-7!

rx7sam

well, we've talked alot bout this. But yah. I rather u get an mr2 b/c of nick and tim...u can start alittle club. But ya, mr2s are really nice looking, quick, and again, nice. Umm I think u should def. get an mr2 just b/c I have an rx7 haha..

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

I think the main question is what do you want to spend.

theflatlander

iTrader: (3)

get the 7.

Dan H

If you're a good driver, I would have to go with the MR2 Turbo. 2nd would be the RX7. And 3rd would be the 240SX.

AW11Rkt

Most 95T MR2's are going for upwards of 15k nowadays
It's going to run mid-high 14's stock and shoudl pull high.9X's G wise on stock suspension if it's not been beat upon . 95 MR2's are teh sexiest looknig year with the newer tail lights , wing , body moldings ETC. .. Mods are still pretty cheap but there is a more speciallized market for these cars . http://board.mr2faq.com

91 T2 should run low 14's and corner quite well . Plus IMO looks dead sexy . If your into drift it would be nice too . Look to spend around 8-10k on a good example here probally . Lots of mod potential

94 hatch with a redtop will also probally run low 14's maybe a high 13 with just simple swap mods . Looks pretty good the car will probally run you 3500 for a mint 94 hatch and another 3k for the swap this will be the cheapest of the 3 and also very driftable and very modable www.freshalloy.com

projekt

well i'd say the S13 will lose cause it's the only convertable.

and you're an idiot for asking.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

They're not running "mid-14's".

My friend has his MR2 running HIGH 14's w/ a full exhaust, and running higher than stock boost (15#). Can't say he's a bad driver either, as he cuts CONSISTANT sub-1.8 60's

...come to think of it, all of your 1/4-mile times are a bit... skewed.

dr0x

Why are you comparing an old car to a few new ones? I mean, for the cost of a turbo 95ish mr2 you could buy a 93 rx7 (lol change engine light). Compare it with that.

Yes hits times are skewed. A stock tii isnt gonna bang off low 14 anything. Try low 15 high 14s.

rotary>piston

They all perform similarly, it really just comes down to opinion and cost. The MR2 would probably cost the most, but along with it you get a much higher level of quality. I must say the interior of my MR2 is beautiful, I love it so much. The exterior styling is also really cool. You also get the rarity and uniqueness that is unmatched by the other two. The RX-7 has a boring interior IMO. I used to think the exterior of the RX-7 was really cool, but I grew quite tired of it over the course of a year. It's just too 80's for me. I've never seen the 240 interior, but the exterior is ok. I don't know about how much a 13b can take, but both the SR20DET and the 3S-GTE can support over 500 rwhp with stock internals. Also, a 13b typically won't last near as long as the 3S-GTE, but I don't know about the SR20DET (I have no idea how long that engine typically lasts).

I like every aspect of my MR2 more than my RX-7. Although I loved my GTUs, I don't regret selling it one bit.

casio

i don't know of any SR- with 500whp with stock internals. i know of 1 running ~18#s and another that was claimed to have ~420whp, but nothin close to 500 (of course i haven't looked). sounds risky, and i question it, but can't challenge it. i know both the SR- and 3S- have great blocks, but so do the rotaries. Blitz hada high 9 second 3rd gen that was said to be stock internals. there's not too incredibly much to change, but there are a few parts to be replaced. my friend (BDC) had a 420whp T2 (T2 block) that was driven daily. the setup has been changed, so its not pumpin that much power anymore.
as far as the cars go, i was in a similar predicament. same line up of cars, all 3. what made up my mind?

turbo MR2s are rare and expensive (cheap is still double the price for an average T2 about). i liked the mid engine, but the setup seemed like it might be something difficult to deal with (IE i'm used to front mount intercoolers). bottom line -- price. but yes, i think they're nice looking cars. beautiful.

S13. this one was easy. the cost was okay, but i'd want to find one with a dead engine. i don't know what these run, but they're harder to find than, say, an RX7 with a dead engine. these cars cost as much, or more, than some RX7s. then some are cheaper than some T2s. either way, on top of that, an SR- would put me out another couple grand. and for all that, i'd need a loan. not too mention those cars just don't look all that great.

finally, the RX7. though i ended up with an N/A 91, i could have gotten a T2 for only a little more. my car, still running good almost 1 year later, was $2125 w/ stereo. its just a good, cheap car. also look at 3rd gens. www.lamotorcars.com <<3yr 30,000mile warranty i believe.

Mephis

dont ask at an imparshal place, im gona be honest, stock to stock the mr2 is more of a car.

Atticus

Just wondering... what's a S13 with a "redtop"? Someone said it's a vert or something... but he said he wanted the hatch? I dunno. The only person I know who has a 240 has a 94 vert, and I don't really like it. Of course, if you were to get one that's actually fast, a 5-speed, and a hatch, I'd go for it. I like the looks of them too, they can be pretty sweet.

casio

some SR20s are red tops, other are black tops. its the color of the valve cover.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

you can have a rb for about 2,000 more than an sr swap and then be in a different ball park.

I agree the MR2 has a nice interior. I got to drive one this weekend and it was nice.

I also owned a s13 with a redtop. The s13's can be lightened quite abit and the sr is a good platform and reliable.

I never had to tune it nearly as much as a 13b but my rx7 is faster than it was due to the lsd and tires (also big breaks) i can put on.

Jesturbo

Having had the S13 (with KA, not SR) and the RX, both are pretty comparable in handling, EXCEPT that the S13 will likely NOT have LSD and as such will be a continual 1 tire fire. If I didn't misread the 'what options do I have' part of the FAQ, all the Tii's have LSD, yes? As for the MR2, you can talk about appearance, power, etc as much as you want, but it is certainly the pig of the bunch, heavier than either the RX or S13, and has the worst brakes of the 3. There is a reason you see almost NO MR2 (second gen) on the track or autoX (at least none of the ones I've frequented)...I remember back in the day watching a race prepped 944 n/a 85.5 with a whopping 150HP walk one around NHIS (and yes it was a turbo MR2)...they can't handle their way out of a paper bag, and the brakes are weak. The other consideration, particularly since you're in Cali will be emmissions...the SR may leave you in the lurch, unless you find the right emmissions shop, and moreover, I have yet to hear of someone not totally mickey mousing the A/C on an SR swap for the S13, so prepare for either no A/C or harmonic nightmares on that pulley. All said, I miss my S13, piece of cake to work on and handled like a go-cart, but I sold that car with KA24 and bought the RX Tii for the same price and I don't regret it (YET!) ;o)

BlackR1

Welcome to an episode of

Bench D...

or is it

Bench Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Anyhow... this is my opinion on the three as I have driven or owned all of them at some point.

1. SW20 Turbo late model
2. FC33 Turbo late model
3. PS13 sr20 red top

Handling
(tie)
1. The late model SW20 fixed many of the suspension problems in the earlier model mr2's. The late model SW20 isn't quite as prone to snap oversteer and throttle-off oversteer as the early models, although it can still happen. The midship layout is refined and has a lot of potential in the corners. The more you step on the gas, the better it handles. It's a good car for people with a little driving experience under their belt and know the car's limits. Very unfriendly to driver error. I've seen quite a few kids crash their SW20's due to throttle off oversteer+snap/inexperience.

1. FC33 Turbo is a very well balanced car in the corners. Very tight turning radius and has a great driver feedback. Rear steer can be beneficial for an experienced driver, but in most cases causes a bit of unwanted instability. Overall, great for all kinds of drivers.

3. PS13 is a good car for a beginner driver. The suspension is a bit stiff and the car is more prone to understeer in stock form. Car is nimble, but feels a bit disconnected from the road. Overall average handling, but very forgiving to the driver. Great for new drivers who want a rwd car.

Braking.
1. FC33 Turbo comes equipped with 4 wheel disc brakes and 4 piston brakes in the front. Combined with a relatively light chassis, the car has excellent stopping power. ABS stops the wheels from locking up to stop it in the shortest distance.

2. PS13 has average stopping power, similar to most commuter cars. The car only comes equipped with single piston calipers.

3. SW20 has good stopping power, but weight and weight distribution can really become a factor during heavy braking.

Acceleration
1. SW20. Newer car, 3S-GTE is the little brother of the JZA80 and is a rock solid block. Excellent acceleration off the line. Short gearing provides quick acceleration, but sacrifices on top end speed.

2. FC33 Turbo. Good all around acceleration from stop and from a roll...but age and rotary reliability become an issue.

3. PS13 SR20 red top is quick, but is still underpowered in stock form. s13 red top stock turbo is small and inefficient, the car needs a larger turbo and significant modification to be 'fast'


Overall
I choose the late model SW20 over the '91 FC33, and PS13 red top. SW20 is obviously the newest of the bunch and stock versus 'stock' the SW20 wins. The SW20 wins not because it excels in any one category, but wins because it is 'good' in all categories. The FC33 Turbo is a very close second and is great in all categories but loses due to age, reliability, and dated looks. (flamesuit on) The PS13 is a good car overall, but in stock form it is far from being a sports car. The PS13 was designed to be a sporty coupe whereas the FC33 and SW20 were designed specifically as sportscars.

BlackR1

if it were a contest that included mods i would order it:

FC3S
S13
SW20

2a+RoN

I have to agree with blackr1. However, as previously stated, I don't think that is necessarily a fair match up. The sw20 should be compared to the fd3s rather than the fc. The sw20 can cost around15g's compared to roughly under 7 for the others and is at 4 years newer than the FC. Maybe the supercharged woulda been a more equal comparison.

chris-reedtn

check the sig, i have 2outa3 that should tell you something, i love the power of the rx7, and the things that it can do. (hehe) and the things im gonna do to the 240, but my favorite adn best of the 2 is by FAR the FC! Mr2's i dont think are any better IMO so it really is based on you? Have fun and pic what you like.

-CHris

rotary>piston

yeah but you'll never find an MR2 SC.

Also, MR2s dominate in autocross. They may weigh more, but they handle quite well. And they are supposed to do 60-0 in 106 ft, that destroys the FC which does it in 130, 140 something?

It also depends on what you want the car for. On the track the three are very similar, and any one of them can be modded to beat the others. I, personally, do not race my 2, so I don't give a **** if xxx car handles better, accelerates better, etc.

This is the same thing that happened when I asked which I should buy. I asked the RX7 boards and the MR2 boards, and guess who said what? The difference is that some of the RX7 board people said get the MR2, while none of the MR2 people said get the RX7.

Drifter101

FC3S....

Lsnaple

ok first off, there is NO 94 s13 hatch. they were only convertable and auto in that year.

the s13 does not understeer at all. if any, i found it very easy to oversteer way too much.

the s13 redtop is early 91-96 (maybe, not sure when began, but pretty sure ended in 96). any s13 HATCH with the turbo SR is a RPS13. the

the s13 blacktop is exactly the same with a black valve cover, but was in the type x model. the s14 and s15 are also blacktop with different intake and turbo's.

JUST WANTED TO CLEAR UP ABOUT THE S13.

i have owned 2 240 hatches, loved them. i now own a fc, love it. i have not owned the mr2, but its quite fun to ride in. none have been turbo.

MY OPINION, DRIVE THEM ALL AND FIND OUT WHICH BEST SUITS YOU.

only other thing is if you get the 240, dont get it just because of all the hype about the SR. if your really a 240 fan, youll know the CA is much better

projekt

red cover ended in 93. japanese end of the s13 shassis, save for the black tops in the 180sx's until 98

the mr2 is not the pig. it is on equal or even less than the FC. the heaviest curb it ever got was 2950.

saying a motor is great cause it can handle '500hp' on a stock block means as much as black beans in a turd factory.

having an engine make 300whp for 100K miles is reliable. if you want to throw numbers i'll list a bunch of engines you've never heard of and make you all feel stupid (except those who actually know what they're talking aboot)

oh and the MR2 hands down is the looker.