Evil Aviator

I don't think the ADI would make up for the inefficiency. Atkins probably spent a lot of effort in matching that supercharger to the engine, so I would imagine that their kit is close to optimal. Roots blowers do not take well to higher boost pressures, and like everything else they do have a limited operation range. However, you could always experiment and see what you get.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Aviator hit it on the head there, the best thing about the camden kit, is it's bolt on and you don't have to change anything. If you're looking for better numbers or more power than it offers, you're stuck doing it yourself (which is usually a lot cheaper, but requires time, effort, and above all, skill and know-how, which most on this forum lack excessively). I get to complain because I can make them on my own that produces more power and cheaper, but I also get complained too because it's done by the owner, and not somebody else.

88IntegraLS

scuse the f#ck out of me


If I had been writing a technical paper I might have done the research necessary to discover the term for 2 engine revolution boost "lag" that current whipple chargers produce on their respective commercial conversion kits

no sh$t, I guess the frictional energy added to the incoming air is still there after it passes through a certain heat exchanger between it and the engine...... come on man, we're talking compressing and releasing the air back to atmospheric pressure, or whatever bighead overtechnical term you want to use for gauge pressure. What's up with you man, is this just some kind of brag fest for you to show of your technical jargon? There is a real world difference in the boost profile and responsiveness of supercharged vs. turboed engines (miata conversion for example).

go ahead and cut into my posts more like usual, you seem to do that to everyone like it's a sport. If you hate ignorance on here, maybe you could target your knowlege toward less minute detail descrepencies than the scale of supercharger throttled volume induced response lag, and more toward the hack jobs that seem common on old TIIs by unsuspecting turbo tunerz................

snub disphenoid

On a completely unrelated note, I'm still suffering from belt slip. I'm not too sure what else I can do to rid myself of this problem. I've already installed a Black Magic e-fan to take some of the load off of the pulley system, but I'm still seeing belt slip above 7000 rpm. I also am still waiting anxiously for the installation of my standalone ECU, which gets started on the 26th. The kit is definitely making good power, even while it's untuned and limping around, I managed to edge out my friend in his E36 M3 (chip tuned+exhaust) by a hair. I know E36 M3s are not that fast, but a stock port NA RX7 definitely can't hang with one, let alone beat it

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

A standalone isn't going to give you too much over the s-afc, maybe 5-10.

snub disphenoid

Well, the SAFCII actually causes severe problems with driving. The only way I got my car to reach redline recently was throw in 100octane into my fuel mixture and run the SAFC-II all the way rich. Normally, I am forced to keep the car below 5000rpm if I am on 91 octane. The car is running REALLY rough, so I think the addition of the Wolf EMS might give as much as 20 additional horsepower. Also, if I can cure the belt slip problem, I'll finally see the full .8bar of boost the gauge reads before the belt starts to slip, so there may be a tiny bit of top end power to be realized there. I'm not sure, I just want my car to run normally and be tuned specifically for my climate, boost level, and maximum octane rating.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Wow.... I would be a bit concerned about other things if that's the case, if it won't even reach redline unless you richen the top end, there's something screwy going on. With 720's you shouldn't have to dump those things like that. It's probably from all the excess heat that charger throws out. My setup when it was on 550x720's required me to take fuel away for most of the top end of the band at 1bar, and I'm still pretty rich. I don't think that's an S-AFC2 problem.

snub disphenoid

It's definitely a fuel quality issue, not a fuel quantity issue. I simply did that because it made the problem a bit less noticeable. I just need to get precise control over ignition timing and fuel (not really neccessary, but 1024 rpm points for a fuel map can't hurt). Remember, the car pulled hard to and a little past redline when there was ~96 octane in the tank.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

I don't know what to tell you, I run 93 with advanced timing, and take fuel away and it runs just happily. I just can't figure out why you'd have to add just to redline the thing, seems very fishy.

snub disphenoid

Only other thing that I know that is odd to me is that my car doesn't really go above 1/4 way on the temperature gauge. My old thermostat was stuck open so I replaced it but the needle only goes up 1/4 of the way, still.

I'm not too sure what it could be, but I'll have it all taken care of soon enough.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

That's normal for a S4. I guess it just blows my mind away that you seem to have so many issues just revving it, you shouldn't be running lean, or detonating on 93 at only 11psi unless the chargers pushing out some extremely hot air. Do you have the other pulley? How did you ever get it to redline normally on a little less extreme gas?

ddub

Something else sounds wrong with your setup snub if you can't even reach redline. Are you sure you set the timing and everything correctly once you had everything put back in? Because as SonicRaT said he's never had that problem, but I don't have personal experience with a s/c so I have no room to talk, just go by what others say.

The temp gauge is completely normal, 1/4 is warmed up for an s4, 1/2 is for an s5. I read in a thread where you were selling your 720's that you were boosting way more than your pulley was meant to or whatever. Is that true? Why aren't you trying to run an intercooler yet? Have you even checked your intake temps? Maybe that's whats causing a lot of these problems. What exactly are you boosting to?

pianoprodigy

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll just continue to enjoy my 165whp and forget about power adders. You can tell I haven't driven the FD in a while (9 weeks) because the Vert actually felt fast last night

RX7FROMCAL

hey snub when are going to get that baby dynoed

Evil Aviator

Ah, I thought your "instant boost" reference was to boost threashold. Since it was in reference to lag, the reason there is no such thing as "instant boost" is because it takes some time to pressurize the system.

My reference was to the compression of the air by the supercharger when off boost. This occurs even with a bypass valve. You will see what I mean once you build and test your Whipple system. It's really bizarre.

Thanks, I will do just that.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

This is because even at idle/off boost, the charger is still spinning which creates a vacuum source, and at the moment, no charger has a bypass valve that closes the charger's path off when engaged, thus you're stuck with two paths each sucking vacuum, and the charger thus gets air (and resistance), which is where the load comes from, now if they made a mechanism to shut the charger's air path off and reroute to the bypass, then it'd be a different story.

Evil Aviator

I mean that the Whipple has an internal compression ratio, unlike a Roots blower. This means it is always compressing the air, even when not creating boost. But yes, an alternate intake air source would solve this problem. However, it would be pretty difficult to build and tune such a complicated monster, and I'm not sure if too many supercharger owners would care much about idle and cruise efficiency. Anyway, my point is that the Camden supercharger does have an advantage over the Whipple in this respect.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Ah,

Is this part of the reason Mercedes clutched their OEM Lysholm supercharger application?

Get a strong electric lock-up clutch for one of the pulleys that locks-up in closed loop if you want better mileage?

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Aviator: I know what you mean, I was attempting to do this for a guy in Syracuse that I helped out, he didn't like the slightly higher idle (~950rpm), anything lower and the drag from the charger would make it hunt (until we got the microtech on, then there were no worries), even regardless of a bypass setup the charger would still drag a fair bit, but if we'd plug the path to the charger and bypass it entirely so it couldn't get air at all, it worked pretty good at maintaing a smooth stock idle, though all the work involved to implement was definatly not worth the trouble of doing so.

snub disphenoid

Installation begins on the 26th, so maybe by the 30th I'll have a fully tuned dyno graph.

NZConvertible

It's mainly to improve mechanical efficiency when boost isn't required, although air temp may have been a part of that too. Toyota did the same thing with their superchanged 4A-GZE and 1G-GZE engines way back in the late-80's.

d_rotary_rocket_b

well all said and done.....what is the final verdict for the camden supercharger, and what are the final dyno numbers for HP and torque

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Check the entire thread. It discusses it all and his car made 173HP.

ddub

And he recently blew his engine I think, he had another thread recently talking about how he blew it. But I think it was due to bad tuning, he went through lots of setups, stock ecu, MAP ecu, carb, etc. Probably the tuners fault, always seemed to have problems from the start.

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Codeblue's car came out fine, but I've heard alot of problems about when its been installed by a few forum members and they hit problems that were hard to troubleshoot. I'm somewhat curious about how the kits perform when Camden installs them (since they would more experience then anyone, since the kit is so new).