vangsplace

My power steering rack has a lot of problems, thinking of removing power steering and going with a non power steering rack....does anyone here on the forums drive with a manual rack and tell us how it feels? i want to know how it compares to a power steering rack. I know the manual rack ratio is 20:1 and I have an 88 turbo II which is the 15:2:1 ? as of right now i have a p/s rack with the belt off and it sucks. I like the feeling of power steering, wil the manual rack be easy to turn and feel just like i had power steering?

stylEmon

iTrader: (2)

In my opinion the power steering isnt worth crap (unless you are a crazy drifter)
I shanged from PS to Manual and left almost NO difference. Obviously, turning while stopped is a little harder, but not much.

Also, i tried a de-power ps rack at first, and it was REALLY diffucult to drive. The real manual rack is the way to go. I like the feel of the road under you, as opposed to the wheel being light as a feather.

The Shaolin

iTrader: (5)

My RX-7 was the first car I ever owned with a manual rack, and it's so much nicer. I'm swapping this rack into my GXL when I part this one out. Very good.

xfillthy

i have a manual rack and when im taking corners on the freeway or whatnot, i feel like i can take them way faster because it isnt as light as ps. but when i try to drift it just doesnt cut it

Honda600rr420

i ahve a maunual steering rack and i love it it gives excellent feedback from the road its alittle hard to turn when sitting but a breeze while driving also u get more steering angle

dwb87

iTrader: (22)

I'm just curious... what do you mean by manual steering rack? I am thinking about removing my PS and I remember seeing that only certain FC's can be driven well without it. I cannot find that information though.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Some models have quicker steering ratios than others. There is a 20:1, 17:1 and 14.5:1 or something kinda like that. The 20:1 is the slowest and is on the manual rack, and the others are for the power racks. The problem with the quicker racks is that it will be harder to turn the wheel when they are de-powered, though many people have done it with little problems. It feels great once you are moving, but it can be a bit hard to turn when stopped on sticky pavement. After a few weeks or maybe a month of driving it you won't even notice it.

rxtuner79

iTrader: (1)

My power steering was leaking from somewhere when I first got the car, so I just pulled off the belt so I didn't burn out the pump when it ran out of fluid. I thought the manual racks were supposed to have a shorter traveling distance, and therefore be more responsive. So I bought one, cleaned it up, and it's sitting in my basement until I can get it installed. But are you saying that the power racks are actually more responsive than the manual? Did I waste my money on this?

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Yes, the power rack is "more responsive" in that that you have to turn the wheel less to make the car turn the same amount. They do this because it reduces the effort required to turn the steering wheel. People say they are more responsive because they have a whole lot more road feel than a PS rack.

rxtuner79

iTrader: (1)

So am I better off keeping my current setup? From what I read, the manual was supposed to have the better ratio (which is why I bought it), but I guess I misunderstood and I should probably just get rid of the manual rack.

EDIT: The rack says Koyo on it in a couple spots... There were no aftermarket racks, right?

Black91n/a

Koyo makes lots of OEM parts too, no there's no aftermarket ones. I'm the one in the archives who said that the 15.2:1 is probably not a good idea, but I've changed my mind. It's only about 15% different, so shouldn't be too much harder. I actually just finished de-powering a 15.2:1 rack this week including welding up the quill and plan to install it soon (anyone want the 17.4:1? I can have it welded in a couple weeks if you want).

Which ratio is "better" is personal. Slower is easier, faster is, well, faster.

Having the belt off and having a properly converted rack is a BIG difference. Don't think you know what it'll feel like, because now YOU are acting as the pump, having to move that fluid back and forth.

There's another, more complete, FC specific de-powering procedure here:

http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=54847

rxtuner79

iTrader: (1)

Well like I said, I think all of my fluid is out of the system because it was leaking from somewhere. The master cylinder would be dry within a day, so I just removed the belt. So since I have no fluid and the belt is off, is that the same as a depowered rack or is there still fluid in there?

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

I've driven both and I can say I like the power steering a lot more. It's wonderful when parallel parking, changing direction at a stop, etc. With the manual you have to muscle it and even then it's a lot slower. On the highway the power steering makes the feel a little lighter, but I got used to it. I mean, I'd prefer the manual rack at speed but there's almost no difference.

If you never ever do any parallel parking or other low speed (<10mph) manuevering, then the manual rack is slightly better for above reasons.

Oh, I hear a car with broken power steering is harder to steer than one with a manual rack. But you're still more or less experiencing what it's like to have a manual rack. So if you think it sucks, don't get one.

wackaloo13

iTrader: (3)

I got my car wiht a depowered rack. I like it. Although it is kind of a pain in the *** parking. Especially parallel parking b/c i already suck at it when im driving an automatic with ps. In anyother situation i prefer the depowered rack. It is much less touchy, and i dont even notice the added effort going into turning the wheel when i am driving

clokker

iTrader: (2)

There is probably still fluid in the rack but more to the point, the seals are still in place.
If you read the depowering link you'll see where they are and why it's not the same as a real manual rack feel till they're removed.

DeAd-EyE

iTrader: (1)

sorry to leech, but how can you check which rack your car has?

rxtuner79

iTrader: (1)

Oh well... Anyone want to trade a manual rack for a depowered power rack?

Now I just have to figure out if I should install my manual rack while I depower the other one, or if I should just sell the manual and look for another power rack to mess with.

r x 7 f c s 4

How would you know if you havea depowered power rack or a manual?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

A depowered rack would still have fittings (no doubt plugged) where the hoses used to attach.

Black91n/a

Ok, so here's the scoop, if it's got no fittings on it then it's a manual rack. If it's got 2 ports on the top of the pinion housing, angled towards the driver's side it's a 17.4:1 (basically all the S5 NA's with PS). If it's got 3 ports in that same area it's a 15.2:1 (all S4's with PS, and all S5 TII's with PS).

If my car was purely for street use I'd have kept it in there. I removed it because I was overrunning it at autocross' and I wanted better steering feel. I'm a big guy so I don't mind having to muscle the steering when parallel parking, and I don't have to do it that much. You adjust your driving after a little while to compensate, like when parking (not parallel) you get rolling before turning and it's a lot better. It's really only bad when you're going really, really slowly. For the first couple days it felt heavy, but I got used to it and it's fine now. I've driven 8+ hour trips with no issues, I can still cruise with one hand no problem.

It used to be that no cars had PS, then it was a luxury item, compared to our parents generation we get absolutely babied by our cars.

Ice_Wolf

IMO, the depowered PS rack is much nicer than the manual rack. I love the responsiveness of the 15.2:1 rack when it's depowered, and if you're not an absolute weakling, it's not hard to turn at all, even at a dead stop. I completely agree with Black91N/A about the 15.2:1 rack. It's very very nice when depowered. After you get rolling above 5 MPH, the car turns just as easy as a PS rack, but has an extremely nice feel of the road. I love how the car doesn't feel feathery anymore, and I can take turns much faster because I'm not scared of how the PS rack is going to react. I drove my g/f's Mustang with a PS rack, and I absolutely hate how light it makes the car feel. The thing I hate about the manual racks is that you have the turn the wheel more to get the car to turn, and that's not what I wanted. Sure it's easier to turn, but when you have to turn the wheel more to compensate it pretty much sucks.

Black91n/a

Yea, I don't really like PS anymore, it always feels way too light to me now. My dad's Miata especially, a light car with not too wide tires and PS, it makes for a really light steering feel, so you really can't tell what the front tires are doing.

With a manual rack you can feel the maximum grip levels of the tires before they start to really understeer.

rxtuner79

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I am looking at a manual rack now, but i can't tell which ratio it is. The guy says it came out of an '86, he can't find anything on it that says 15.2:1, and the plate says:

AFB05
# 7205152
koyo seiko co. ltd

Can anyone tell what kind of rack this is by the pictures?





















He also said that he has two more but they are on cars right now, so if this is not a 15.2:1 then I still might have a chance at getting one.

kontakt

Looks like my rack. 15.2

DaBrkddy

That should be the 15.2:1 s4 power steering rack right?