TimX-7

How would I be able to tell if my car has had the eliminator bushings installed or not?
I'm interested in either verfiying that I have, or if not, restoring the DTSS , so let me know.

Thanks, TW

Valkyrie

Look at them.

socalrotor

iTrader: (1)

I think it will be VERY hard to find the OEM DTSS bushings IMO. HAve you tried swerving real hard and see what it feels like. DTSS should kick in in 2nd gear. I was unsure on the t2 I bought so I hit up the local transit center(huge parking lot close to me) and found it it was stiff as a board!

TimX-7

Yep, that would be pretty helpful.
If I knew what to look for..
which is like..you know....WHY I WAS ASKING

Hmm, our local transit center has a tiered parkinglot, but I know a local lumber yard parking lot that fits the bill for that swerving test. Thanks, scr.

Valkyrie

If you've seen pictures of the eliminators, you should be able to look at the rear hub and find where they are. I was SO happy to see that my car had eliminators.

Eliminators are usually white or black plastic, whereas the stock ones are rubber.

ZOMG_Camaro

why restore something ppl go through alot to get rid of?

TimX-7

camaro, it's because when I was young I used to sit around and listen to my father and his ancient san diego Rx7 club friends discuss the system, and how they had read in articles and gotten firsthand accounts of how the DTSS would give you an edge, but about how 95% of people were too much of a ***** to learn to shake the feeling that you're about to spin out, and how skilled drivers that had learned to master their fear could get incredible cornering.
If it was bad and something to go out and remove right away, why would mazda engineers put it on the car in the first place? It's something intended to give the car an edge, and I'm not a ***** so I figure I'd take the advantage that was intentionally designed into the car.
Some people like to put V8's into these cars, because 'they're so much more reliable' and all the bullshit you've heard before.
Some people like to put eliminator bushings on.
I personally would rather use the car the way the designers intended it to be used.

-TW

ZOMG_Camaro

so are you gunna put the smog equipment back on.... i was just askin... most of my best friends are rotor heads lurking arounf here... theyve explained the DTSS and i thought it was cool... but much like the electronic shocks.... im sure its cool when it works like brand new....

GM never put a 350 in front of a T5 tranny because it isnt strong enough... mines holding up for now.

TimX-7

yeah, I have to keep the smog equips on, I live in the people's republic of california, unfortunately.

texFCturboII

iTrader: (17)

Hmmmm.... well put. DTSS has got it's ups and downs. The drifters on here the main ones that eliminate them from what I've read so that it's easier to get her sideways w/o DTSS kickin in and throwin you into the inside suddenly. Replacing the stockers is really freeekin expensive. Gotham Racing quoted me something like 500 a pop.... that's 1000. However, those guys are ultra expensive to begin with and I'm sure you could find it cheaper.

As to how you can tell? Grab a FSM, check out the diagrams and then check out your ride and see if they are there. FSM available in the FAQ's.

TimX-7

man, I should just find a machine shop and start making my own stuff in Pro/E.
I'm hoping at this point I have them on there now, so I don't have to go scavenging or pay 1000 dollars, haha

ZOMG_Camaro

Pwned....

ZOMG_Camaro

how does that system work anyways.... i know the basics like it increases the negative camber while in a turn but what actually happens...

MAGIC???@!/1/1?!

TimX-7

Mazda also introduced Dynamic Tracking Suspension System (DTSS)in the 2nd generation RX-7. The revised independent rear suspension incorporated special toe control hubs which were capable of introducing a limited degree of passive rear steering under cornering loads.

This is from the wikipedia article on the RX-7.

So, I guess it lets the toe adjust under load.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

DTSS is explained in excruciating detail in the factory training manual, available at http://mazdarx7.iougs.com/training.shtml

Black91n/a

The REAL reason why people get rid of it is that by now the bushings are worn out and aren't working the way they're supposed to, and to replace them with new means replacing THE ENTIRE TRAILING ARM. This is expensive. Compare that to the cost of a $20 set of eliminator bushings and you've got your answer.

Also, keep in mind that the system was designed around mid-80's tires, not late 2000's tires. Tires have come a LONG way, with average grip levels being way up, so the tuning of the system isn't quite applicable to todays tires.

Also, if you're going to be making your own, then you'll need to be really careful to get the stiffness of them just right so that they're not too hard so that they're not deflecting as they should (too little/late), or so that they're not too soft and are deflecting too much/too soon.

Race cars don't use any sort of dynamic rear toe or anything like that. They use as solid a suspension bushing as they can to eliminate things like changing rear toe.

Gene

iTrader: (1)

??? This is BS. The problem with the DTSS isn't the "feeling" of impending spin, it's that cornering force adds some toe in, giving you more cornering force. This is all fine and good until you overstep the limit. When that happens, the extra toe goes away and now you're WAY over the limit and your car goes all squirrely. Your best bet is to do the eliminators, set some extra stock toe, and deal with the increased tire wear. There's a reason that everyone who races FCs removes them.

Black91n/a

I wouldn't even say that you need any extra toe in. My car currently has a slight amount of toe OUT in the rear and it still handles fine.

Toe in in the rear makes the car more stable, it doesn't necessarily translate to more grip though.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the dtss adds toe, so thats why a stock fc handles better with zero toe in

when you take the dtss out, you season to taste, but overall the rear will have less toe than it used too

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

I've never felt the DTSS system activate, I'd have to feel it to be able to decide whether I want to remove it or not. And to correct post #13 it decreases camber change and causes the outside wheel to toe in under cornering.

Tatakai

iTrader: (2)

DTSS doean't "activate" its just there. its what gives the rx7 that oversteer feeling. i only noticed it when i first bought my rx7 how it FELT like i was oversteering on just about every little turn. i just eliminated mine the other day and at first i felt like i was understeering a lot. but the more i drive it the more i kind of like it gone. feels more natural and the rear end is very predictable

Skidtron

iTrader: (1)

The DTSS also is active under engine braking and regular braking. Causing toe in to stabalize the chassis. Thought I'd add that it's from the training manual. I think that's what the guy posted above.

ZOMG_Camaro

solid axle FTW!..... seriously tho sounds cool but rikety.... i suppose when it was new it was cool....

Hot_Dog

Unless Mazda discontinued manufacturing the DTSS bushings, the busings by themselves did had a part number and were available from Mazda.

Hot_Dog
90 RX7 GXL

Black91n/a

EVERYTHING I've ever heard about this was that the bushing itself was not availalbe seperately, and was only available as part of the whole trailing arm assembly.