dubber91

Right, let me explain to you guys. I have just ripped a turbo 2 motor out of a 1990 UK spec car, and am going to rebuild it with some modified internals (aiming at around 350HP), to fit into my VW bug.
As its in the beetle, low down torque isnt essential, and i shall be fitting a built gearbox to handle the power. I need information, therefore, on suggested modifications for that sort of power (the parts must be available in the UK) and an idea of the power output and redline so i can get a box made up....

Any ideas you might have would be greatfully received.

Steve

Valkyrie

the stock redline is 7,000... for all practical purposes, you're entirely safe up to 8,000 (or higher, with some hardened parts), but that would be pointless without at least a street port and a bigger turbo...

You would need some sort of aftermarket turbo to make 350 HP, although it can be done with stock internals (a street port would help...). You'd need some extra fuel mods, of course...

piercdawg

With the right tuning and fuel mods, (aftermarket turbo ofcourse) you can basically do it all on a stock block. I've seen 450 whp with stock block, meaning stock ports as well. Dont worry about your internals of the motor, just a rebuild would be more than enough. Its all in the tuning, & fuel.


Redloine is safe up to 8K but the stock ECU has fuel maps to 9K.

dubber91

right well as its apart, i would give it either a street port or maybe even as far as an agreesive extend port. Just to prevent any issues later on when i try and get even more power! rebuild kits over here arent cheap, so rebuild once, rebuild well is the best way to go.

what turbo? T04? GT35?

T04 seems pretty cheap.....

Then management sytem, tuned exhaust and uprated injectors....anything else? exact spec would be good...##Steve#

piercdawg

T04 will give you 350 easy. But Ported motors dont last long. A ported motor will blow motors much easier especially without a stand alone & a Full Dyno tune.

Upgrade the secondays, you dont need to touch the primarys it will only ruin your idle. Ofcourse a storng fuel system, maybe fuell cell in the front. & if youre serious, go stand alone. Megasqurit is the best bang for you buck, but it s a lot of work

SChema

3 mm Apex Seals?

piercdawg

no no no bad idea. 3mm apex seal is the wrong way to go. Way too much money & work. U would have to get your rotors milled to fit them. & then there is no advantage & then every rebuild you do you gonna need rotor housings. Sound like fun? Like I said 450whp with stock internals & seals. The RE Amemiya D1 car uses stock 2mm seals. Drift Samurai uses stock seals.

dubber91

yeah i had already made the decision to stay with 2mm seals, largely stock (in design at least).
Extend/street ports dont reduce life that much do they? I thought it was brige ports And peripherals that cause issues due to the lack of side-seal support?
In which case what is the best compromise? Just a street port should give the opertunity for say 400-450BHP if and when i so wish surely?

Righht, uprated secondaries, Stock primaries, T04 turbo (or too laggy); what manifold to go with this? And finally what about wastegates/blow off valves and ancilleries to the turbo?

I wont be running with the air pump or power steering pump (no need in a bug) and i would need to make up a wiring loom to go with the FI, so what could i loose with regards to solenoids/control?

Will the tuners touch megasquirt on the dyno? Ive realised that its actually pretty cheap, and i'd enjoy having a fiddle tune-wise myself.


cheers for the help guys

Steve

monkhommey

ever think about na rotors??

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

For 350 there's no need. Just build it pretty much as stock, do a mild streetport if you want a little help in the upper band. Then go with a T04B and be done.

dubber91

i did consider NA rotors, but figured i didnt want to start up compression ratio and running low boost.....

I'd much prefer to stay as stock as possible.. is there really a need for stand alone fuel management for 350BHP?

Steveo

shm21284

get a GT35 (ballbearing) turbo, streetport it, rebuild with STOCK apex seals (they seem to be most reliable unless getting ceramic apex seals - $1000). No need to rev it past 8k. To get 350 out of an NA engine, you must bridge or P-port, plus do all the mods necessary to see 10000 rpm.
You definately need standalone, its so much safer and more versatile. I suggest a Haltech E8 because its a turbo (E8 has a closed loop boost controller, wideband o2 datalogging and display, and some other goodies), but there are many standalones out there that will suffice. DO NOT GO CHEAP ON ENGINE MANAGEMENT!!!! Rotaries don't like detonation, and standalones give you full control. The more control, the less likely detonation will occur.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

I think monkhommey was talking about using NA rotors in a turbo application, not building a 350 hp NA engine. For 350 hp, you shouldnt need higher unboosted compression, espec since you arent particularly worried about torque at low RPMs. It will just make the engine that much trickier to tune properly, or require an anti-detonation device (alcohol or water injection, something along those lines). Id stay with the S5 rotors (9.0 compression isnt bad anyway), stock internals and everything besides turbo, intercooler, ECU, fuel injectors, fuel pump, possibly a port if you feel like it, and extra cooling capacity.

dubber91

right so ill streetport her, fit either a Gt35 or T04 turbo (will both bolt onto the stock exhaust manifold?) then go either haltech or microtech(opinions please) for engine management...
anything else? induction? turbo spec compressor/turbine spec? what size secondary injectors?
whats a good idea when it comes to cooling?.....my cooling system is at its limit already with the NA

steve..

tinvestor

you will need a new exhaust manifold and how are you cooling it now? just not really familiar with how to cool a rear mounted engine.

RacerXtreme7

iTrader: (2)

I assume your on a budget (arent we all). Ignore some of the advice thus given. For a 300~350 hp at the wheels, simply stick with a stock hybrid turbo. Its cheap, reliable and compact. All you need to do is port the heck out of the wastegate and slap on a bigger compressor. GT35R is WAY over kill for your needs and is a expensive *** turbo, that and then you'll need a manifold, oil lines, coolent lines etc etc. With a hybrid you simply use whats there already and just run a larger compressor wheel in a slightly larger compressor housing. Thats it, BOOM 300+ hp. Get some kind of standalone engine management, as the stocker isn't well suited for those power levels (although it is possible) but the wirelooms are 2 decades old now and so are the electronics. You'll need to upgrade the secondary injectors to at least 1000cc. Were are you going to mount the radiator and intercooler??? While the engines apart, I'd suggest a street port, anything from mild to wild for street ports dont hurt reliablility at all so as long as you dont port into the oil seal side, and leave enough on the open side so you have at least 65% of the corner seals supported, and don't port so much that your side seals chop into your closing edge.

For specifics on anything thus mentioned so far (hybrid turbo building, , Porting techniques, building a suitable fuel system, engine management, intercooler size ETC ETC) do a search throught the forums as these all been covered NUMEROUS times and you should find all the info and more then you'll need.

~Mike............

dubber91

yeah i AM on a budget.....i would be silly to say i wasnt.
The only reason i suggest a T04 turbo is they are around £300-400 (600-800$??) from 'XS power' on brittish ebay. Would i need a new exhaust manifold with it?
My stock turbo is fooked....i think theres way to much play so if i were to re-use it, i would need to rebuild it. Isnt a hybrid turbo one with different sized compressor and turbine wheels? In which case, where and which compressor housings/wheels could i use?
I have an NA motor already running in the bug using a larger 3 core subaru radiator mounted up front. I would probably try and keep the intercooler in a roughly stock position: or i could pipe it up to a rear window and duct air over it.

What are your opinions on engine management? which brands/what to look out for?

Steve

Valkyrie

EWWWWW, XS Power = SSAutochrome = CRAP.

--MAstermind--

ok well for 750 american a t04E .81AR would be ******* rowdy with good mid and top end....and get yourself a greddy manifold (i got tons...LOL) and a decent wastegate 1000's and a haltech....and ur gunna be money@350whp no porting....its been done on the regular...dont be fooled!

dubber91

wicked! so if i can source a T04E and whilst the engines apart give it a bit of a port, it should be massively tuneable with a microtech or haltech ECU. Just 1000CC secondary injectors and im all gravy?

Steve

piercdawg

EXACTLY, u dont need a bunch of fancy crap. The most important piece is the engine managment. Any of those tuned right will do the job perfectly. The stock hybrid is a good idea but your EGTs still stay up there with the use of the stock manifold. It just hold a lot of heat, & if u use a aftermarket manifold like the Greddy or the HKS it flows much better & takes the EGTs way down. U can even get a cheap manifold from e-bay for like $150. But use a good turbo, The XS power isnt the best, will work but who knows for how long. If u want a bad *** manifold go to Alienauto.com they have a bad *** dual wastegate, & its only $750. But these motors take a MASSIVE amount of fuel so get urself a bad *** pump as well. If u wanna make 350hp have a fuel sysem ready for 450hp.