Terrh

iTrader: (7)

The Car: 1988 10AE. Rebuilt s5 jspec core. Low miles on a stock s4 turbo. Otherwise basically stock. New clutch, rebuilt transmission. 40k miles on body and diff. Emmissions are not an issue. Car is in excellent condition overall, everything that isn't perfect will be by the time it's driven.

What I want: it to be QUICK (<13.5sec 1/4 mile), reliable enough for me to not be working on it 90% of the time, but cheap enough to not totally break the bank. I'm making about $400/week and can blow most of it on the car, but still...

I think I want to go with a standalone EMS (either a microtech or megasquirt), because going piggyback seems kinda stupid to me.

I'm not concerned with suspension at the present time, this post is concerned with engine, for the most part.

This car is no longer a daily driver, but if I decide one day that I want to head to, say, california or something, I should be able to hop in and do so without having to worry about drivability issues/it getting 10mpg on the highway/etc

Anyways, what should I do?

SideWindeRx7

cheap, quick, reliable ... dont go together.. lol

i can show you how to get your car to run a 13 flat with just a couple cheap mods. But it would probably blow up on you after a few runs like that. If you want to go reliable then it will cost you alot more money. I say spring for the extra cash if you can swing it and do it the right way. But no matter what, its an rx7.. you will always be working on it.. lol

also i just notced your sig says you have an '85 gsl-se, with a 12a?! why did you put a 12a in it?

Bukwild

You said you are not worried about the suspension? You must want a drag racer. Wrong car to start with.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

there are LOTS of rx7 drag cars... so how is an rx7 the wrong car to start with??

and no, I believe I said that I'm not concerned with the suspension right now.. I've got that part handled.

I WANT to do this the right way, I just don't want to overbuild it/overpay for stuff that isn't really necessary.

As for the 12A in my -SE.. I dunno, ask the previous owner.. it gets 28mpg on the highway though so I don't care

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

What kind of BS is that?
That is a lousy comment to make, there are LOTS of people on here making plenty of power and reliable. I mean comon. Me personally Other than an engine and turbo rebuild I have not had any other problems with my car and I get ok Gas millage but once I start to get her tunned I am sure i WILL BE able to get 28mpg+
With the power to boot.

Now to answer your question Terh,
It seems to me that you know what you need. However I will give you my personal suggestions;
Good FMIC,
Good BOV (not needed just extra insurance),
Microtech LT-8 (since you aren't looking for super huge power),
some 740cc secondaries leave the primaries stock 550's,
a good manual or electronic boost controller,

With these things I am confident you will be sufficiently quick and reliable to boot.
If you aren't interested in going faster than 13.5 I might suggest a good quality hybrid but that is only going to start a flame war.... so take it as you want!

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

jreynish: you are my hero.

I forgot to mension that I'm staying top mount, but I'm going to be doing water injection probably and possibly a water sprayer too.. either way, I think I have an intercooler solution figured out.

elfking

Any particular reason for staying top mount? Other then the obvous price difference? I think you would get more performance from having a FMIC rather then water injecting/spraying a top mount.. You're still going to get that same heat soak from the engine..

Of course a FMIC also has some modifying needing to get one in there... But if your looking for those 13's then I would think it might be more benifical to you.... Then again people can definately see if you have a FMIC... so out of sight out of mind is another reason...

Well I was just curious why you chose to stay TMIC. Since ive been doing alot of thinking along those lines...

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

I haven't found a reasonably priced top mount that will work well with the stock turbo and not force me to cut the car.. if I find one, then that's what I'll do.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

Terrh,
I was unaware that you wished to stay top mount. If you wish I have a Intercooler core that if you have the availability you could have entaks welded onto it custom and you could stay top mount and have a better core....

Also I am going to do either C02 or N20 spraying on my frount mount... on demand! making it one huge ice cube.
Just another option for you!
Also you wish to stay Stock Turbo? Including Turbine housings and Compressor? if that is the case then there is another option for you to concider there are compressors that you can buy that are upgraded a little bit that will still fit into the stock HT-18 Turbo compressor housing that will raise the efficiency of your turbo. PM me for details!

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I'd say this first of all: FAST, RELIABLE, CHEAP

You can only pick two from that list.

SO in that case your "recipe" is going to be composed of this: $$$ And a lot of parts being replaced/upgraded to insure you only work on the car 10% of the time.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

1987RX7guy: thanks for the insight.

jreynish: I don't want 100% to stay stock turbo, but if it's possible to do so AND meet my goals for being fast and reliable, then I will.. if it's not.. then I'll upgrade.

a "better" TMIC sounds like a good idea.. hmmmm...

I like how the stock TII feels though.. no downshifting to go up hills at low rpm, etc.. it makes the rotary feel alot bigger than it is.. If I go to a bigger turbo I want to try and not lose that.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

well what I am suggesting is to simply upgrade the Compressor of your turbo, you will have a little more high end and not loose any (noticable) low end power. Nothing else on your turbo will chage. This new compressor expands the efficiency of the stock turbo allowing for more umph!

pinkfloyd

how much dose that cost. "upgrade the Compressor of your turbo"

SideWindeRx7

Jreynish, if you can get 28+ mpg out of a t2 with a full t04, i will buy you a dinner from any resturaunt in your area.

as for what i said about cheap, reliable, and power ... well yeah, i guess it can be done depending on your opinion in power.

Sure he can strip the car to nothing: 0 dollars
home made boost controller: 5 dollars
eliminate the cats: 100 dollars
fcd: 90 dollars

bare minimum, and it will be quick. 15psi wont be reliable though, especially not with a top mount.

basically everything you do contrasts the other. What im saying is that to make a fast car you need to spend money. SO it wont be CHEAP. If he wants to stay CHEAP then it wont be RELIABLE. If he wants to stay RELIABLE then it wont be CHEAP. See how they dont go together? Thats what i was saying. If you can show me how to keep a t2 in the 13.5- bracket, for "cheap" (we still dont know what HIS cheap is), and keeping it reliable enough to not have to work on it or have any problems for years to come. Please tell me...

SideWindeRx7

terreh, i think youre ignoring the facts. Im not trying to put anyone down or anything, im just saying that what youre looking for isnt realistic dependant on what you said.

tell us how much money is "cheap".

a compressor upgrade is around 800+ dollars depending on what you want.

krazydru784

dont forget to open up your exhaust...a nice 3 inch all the way would do nicely since u dont have to worry about emissions...i personally like my racing beat turbo back exhaust...its famous for being almost quieter then stock daily driving..and is loud enough to please you wen at wide open throttle...all this with a great flow u cant beat it. but it is arounf 750bucks..but i would definitely start witht he exhaust and dont forget the fuel cut defender...but if u go standalone u probably wont need that.umm yea i would go with at least 680 secondariers..lik some cleaned gsl se injectors work nicely..but on ur 10ae..which is what i have too..u have to wire in resistors because our injectors are high impedence and almost all aftermarket injectors, lik greddy as well as the gsl se injectors, are low impedence i believe..did u port your s5 core..cuz that would defnitely help u get under the 13.5 mark..besides that..get a nice tid too ...a cheap 3 inch generic intake for a civic works great.~20 bucks..the hybrid turbo sounds good too..and a nice boost controller.. also ur going to need to port the hell out of your stock internal wastegate to get rid of boost creep so u can tune correctly..i would say at about 12-14 lbs of boost witht the right tuning and driving...and with all the mods i listed u should definitely be hitting ur goal..and running quiet reliable. o yea one more thing..i not sure how effective a upgraded tmic are because you still have to take into account heat soak..because there is just so much heat comeing right off your block under the hood.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

That would entirely depend on which one you get for it?
also depends on whom you are getting it from! sorry i can' give you a price I am not a dealer!
Try the many turbo shops arround!

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I don't mean to be rude... but are you simply regurgitating information that you heard "might" be right?

Cause he wants to go stand alone so he won't need any resistors for the injectors... second he will need more than 680cc to run safely which is why I suggested 740cc.
Exhaust will definitely have to be done.
Top Mount intercooler with a cold spray and/or water injection is just as good as a good front mount. Read up on it.

SideWindeRx7

If he wants to buy a stand alone, thats 1 grand. He wants to buy injectors, thats another 300, he wants to upgrade his turbo to a hybrid thats another 800, he wants to add a water injection system (chances are he doesnt know how to do it himself) thats another 200 bucks, exhaust is another 800, etc ...

thats only scratching the surface, and the only mod that is a power adder would be a turbo compressor upgrade. Everything else listed is a supporting mod. Thats already in the 3000+ range, and not even into power adders.

If 5000 dollars is cheap, then yes, he CAN make a t2 in the 13.5- bracket and semi-reliable (the car is OLD .. **** breaks)

When i think of cheap, im thinking under or around 1000.

lol.. edit.

ECKO1980

Just a side note I dont think that TIIs got 28mpg stock right off the show room floor, you will more realisticly get between 15 and 20mpg

SideWindeRx7

eckos right. **** my gsl-se only got like 20mpg. My t2 ... i dont even want to think about it. lol.. like 14 around town :-O

cloead

standalone + 3" straight through exhaust + intake+ bigger secondaries, and youre getting there.

not that cheap though.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

This is true but as he mentioned he is looking into it!

He Will need injectors and they aren't that much money if you shop arround!

It can be done cheaper! I did my freinds for 450 CND! so it isn't all that expensive!

How do you know he doesn't or know somebody who doesn't know how? and compared to the cost of a 1000+ FMIC kit that looks pretty appealing for the same results!

Don't have to buy racing beat you can get just as good of a quality exhaust from you local exhaust shop for arround 500

Stand alone ECU tunned properly on stock application has proven a 25-35 Hp increase... Millage goes from arround 20mpg to 30+mpg.

Injectors support the added boost and heat! so it isn't a support mod it is a Power mod without them you don't get more power you get PING... opps new engine!

Water Injection system works to the same extent if not better that a good FMIC, so last time i CHECKED a good fmic added power... so will water injection!

exhaust adds HP lots of it probably up to 20HP with intake! Now to me this adds HP not supports it!

That is cheap concidering that people whom we will leave unamed have spent 10k+ for their prime power setup

True **** breaks but not because he didn't mod it properly simply because the **** is old. if It was goign to break with the added power chances are it would have broken if it wasn't there... So this really isn't what reliable modding entails... it is more like normal everyday maintenance.

Then you are one Cheap Person...

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

Common man;
PM Maxthe7man
10sec rx7

Max has a 400hp setup and gets 30mpg!!!


This is a comversation I had with Dale (10sec rx7)

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=mpg
look 23 posts down Maxthe7man posted a big post like 3rd line down read what he got on his trip!


NOW when are you going to fly up here to good old saskatchewan and buy me lunch?

neptuneRX

yall are thinking too hard.
Step one, get hold of a 20B
Step two, have it installed correctly

ok... so cheap goes out the window, but without a turbo strapped to a 20B you'll have all the reliable power you can shake a stick at. Nah, I'm just kidding... but I say you take your stock engine block and have it street ported, and just don't redline it through ever gear. But having a FMIC would def. help free up power, and reliablity.